Italian General Election 2012 ?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Heard about another PdL guy leaving. So that's three if I count correctly. And guess what ? Berlusconi survived the last confidence vote by... 3 votes.

Not deluding myself though, he still has the time to buy three other random whores. My attitude here is and will remain "wait and see".

[Andrea]

Heard about another PdL guy leaving. So that's three if I count correctly. And guess what ? Berlusconi survived the last confidence vote by... 3 votes.

Not deluding myself though, he still has the time to buy three other random whores. My attitude here is and will remain "wait and see".

Gabriella Carlucci has left for UDC tonight too.

[SPQR]

i'm not at all certain that left will win next italian election....they have no software-ideas since a long time, berlu keep a lot of fans, and far-left become more weak every year


I'm afraid than the destiny of the future government will depends of little center-party, christian-democrats and Fini fan club....

10% lead in polls...and thank God the far left is weaker and weaker,its leaders are a bunch of idiots.

[Iannis]

I think that there could be a new center-right government with Letta or Alfano, and this will be positive also for PD, because it won't have to take the responsiblity of approve unpopular and neoliberal economic reforms that would put it in a unconfortable position, in case of technocratic government or even in case of leftist victory at early elections

[Insula Dei]

Alfano seems to be specualted about a lot in the Italian media right now. But does anyone here believe he could turn the tides for Italy (or the PdL)? He basically looks like a caricature of a dim-witted DC apparatchik to me.

[DL]

Forgive me for asking what must seem like a very obvious question that has probably been answered before - but - How is it possible that Berlusconi still has even the meager support he has in Italy. From polls I've seen there is still something like 30% of Italians who approve of him (I realize that leaves 70% who do not) - but I want to know how ANYONE in that country - regardless of political philosophy could possibly approve of such an exreable human being. It goes without saying that anyone to the left of the far right in Italy hates Berlusconi right off the bat for his politics. But then even you are a rightwing free-market type - or (this being Italy_ a devout Catholic anti-Communist who used to always vote for the Chrstian Democrats because the vatican ordered you to - here is a man who sleeps with underage prostitutes, brags about sex with a harem of women, has been divorced  numerous times, has been charged so much corruption so many times I've lost count and on top of all that he has literally broken every sinle solitary promise he ever made is clearly running the country into the ground!!

In Canada when Brian Mulroney got really unpopular in the early 90s - his approval numbers fell into single digits - and he wasn't even having sex with children! What does it take to make 100% of Italians see Berlusconi as a horror show? Who are the people who still like him???

[RogueBeaver]

Lega MPs constitute nearly 1/5 of the remaining PDL caucus. Likely game over for Teflon Silvio.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

In Canada when Brian Mulroney got really unpopular in the early 90s - his approval numbers fell into single digits - and he wasn't even having sex with children!

Post of the day, probably.

[DL]

Forgive me for asking what must seem like a very obvious question that has probably been answered before - but - How is it possible that Berlusconi still has even the meager support he still has in Italy. From polls I've seen there is still something like 30% of Italians who approve of him (I realize that leaves 70% who do not) - but I want to know is how ANYONE in that country - regardless of political philosophy could possibly approve of such an exreable human being. It goes without saying that anyone to the left of the far right in Italy hates Berlusconi right off the bat for his politics. But then even you are a rightwing free-market type - or (this being Italy_ a devout Catholic anti-Communist who used to always vote for the Chrstian Democrats because the vatican ordered you to) - here is a man who sleeps with underage prostitutes, brags about sex with a harem of women, has been divorced  numerous times, has been charged so much corruption so many times I've lost count and on top of all that he has literally broken every sinle solitary promise he ever made is clearly running the country into the ground!! He has done NOTHING to deliver on a rightwing wish list - the country is as massively in debt and bureaucratic and corrupt as ever. When history looks back on the reign of Berlusconi - what will he be remembered for in terms of any substantive policy? NADA! His only other claim to fame was being a close personal friend of Gadhafi!

In Canada when Brian Mulroney got really unpopular in the early 90s - his approval numbers fell into single digits - and he wasn't even having sex with children like Silvio is! What does it take to make 100% of Italians see Berlusconi for the horror show that he is? Who are the people who still like him???

[RogueBeaver]

He's left the Quirinale without comment. No resignation for now.

[SPQR]

He's left the Quirinale without comment. No resignation for now.

Berlusconi will resign after the approval of a law with all the EU requests.
The President released a note,so it's official.

[Hash]

Swell news. Maybe Italians will finally elect somebody who isn't a criminal. On the other hand, this further isolates Canada in the "western countries with leaders who are wastes of oxygen and ought to DIAF" club.

[Leftbehind]

No it doesn't.

Great news, like.

[Beet]

So... are there any parties in Italy, anywhere, who seriously support restoring the lira? What's the closest to a serious, establishment person whose name is known who has advocated such a move?

[Colbert]

Swell news. Maybe Italians will finally elect somebody who isn't a criminal. On the other hand, this further isolates Canada in the "western countries with leaders who are wastes of oxygen and ought to DIAF" club.

less "criminal" than gw bush, clinton, albright and the 1.5 millions dead iraki people

[Iannis]

Alfano seems to be specualted about a lot in the Italian media right now. But does anyone here believe he could turn the tides for Italy (or the PdL)? He basically looks like a caricature of a dim-witted DC apparatchik to me.

DC apparatchik is the best that post-war italy offered in politics :-)

[Iannis]

Forgive me for asking what must seem like a very obvious question that has probably been answered before - but - How is it possible that Berlusconi still has even the meager support he has in Italy. From polls I've seen there is still something like 30% of Italians who approve of him (I realize that leaves 70% who do not) - but I want to know how ANYONE in that country - regardless of political philosophy could possibly approve of such an exreable human being. It goes without saying that anyone to the left of the far right in Italy hates Berlusconi right off the bat for his politics. But then even you are a rightwing free-market type - or (this being Italy_ a devout Catholic anti-Communist who used to always vote for the Chrstian Democrats because the vatican ordered you to - here is a man who sleeps with underage prostitutes, brags about sex with a harem of women, has been divorced  numerous times, has been charged so much corruption so many times I've lost count and on top of all that he has literally broken every sinle solitary promise he ever made is clearly running the country into the ground!!

In Canada when Brian Mulroney got really unpopular in the early 90s - his approval numbers fell into single digits - and he wasn't even having sex with children! What does it take to make 100% of Italians see Berlusconi as a horror show? Who are the people who still like him???

DL, you can't understand because your politics in your let's say emisphere is totally personalistic. In Europe it's ideologic, so, even though now personalism arrived also here, and evene though Berlusconi's larger than life personality, still people vote according to their personal cultural, ideological inclinations. One of the leftist mistakes in last 20 years has been to concentrate on Berlusconi figures, while at least after 2001 who voted the centre-right, like me, did this not for Silvio, but becaus belonging to some stream like christian-democracy, nationalism, populism, neo-liberal tendencis, conservatorism, anti-communism. Well, these tendecies are still the first issue, and many people maybe are disappointed by Berlusconi, but fear more the opposition's likely choices. Regarding me, I would have like to have a Margaret Thatcher as prime minister, though, nasty, neoliberal, and personally and ethically perfect, so very different from Berlusconi, and now I can't trust who criticized Berlusconi government because he made "too many spending cuts", since my position is that he did too few!!! Is it clear?

[DL]

I am not taking issue with the fact that 30% or more Italians would still vote for right of centre parties - that is to be expected for all the reasons you describe. I am more shocked that ANYONE in Italy still approves of Berlusconi as an individual or as PM. If I were a rightwing neo-liberal Italian who wished for an Italian version of Margaret Thatcher - it would certainly vote for one of the rightwing parties in the next Italian election, but I would also STRONG DISAPPROVE of Silvio Berlusconi both as a human being and as a Prime Minister!  

I just can't believe that there is still anyone left in Italy who is an apologist for his personal conduct and performance. In Italy there is high correlation between being a church-going Catholic and voting for the right - how can anyone who calls themself Catholic not be nauseated by a man who is a serial statutory rapist??? 

[Iannis]

I am not taking issue with the fact that 30% or more Italians would still vote for right of centre parties - that is to be expected for all the reasons you describe. I am more shocked that ANYONE in Italy still approves of Berlusconi as an individual or as PM. If I were a rightwing neo-liberal Italian who wished for an Italian version of Margaret Thatcher - it would certainly vote for one of the rightwing parties in the next Italian election, but I would also STRONG DISAPPROVE of Silvio Berlusconi both as a human being and as a Prime Minister!  

I just can't believe that there is still anyone left in Italy who is an apologist for his personal conduct and performance. In Italy there is high correlation between being a church-going Catholic and voting for the right - how can anyone who calls themself Catholic not be nauseated by a man who is a serial statutory rapist??? 

Ok, but he's not my father or friend and I'm not judging anything different but its government, not him, and even if the question is about his person, in reality it's a political question, as intended by electors, and the answer won't be separated from the personal political position

[Filuwaúrdjan]

In Italy there is high correlation between being a church-going Catholic and voting for the right - how can anyone who calls themself Catholic not be nauseated by a man who is a serial statutory rapist??? 

In fairness it isn't nearly as high as it was in the old days, what with the bizarre diffusion of Italian Christian Democracy (the principle successor party to the DC's ended up in the postcommunist party!)

[SPQR]

You must also realize Italy is full of ignorants,and of people who benefit from Berlusconi's "policies".

Anyway,his approvals have decreased some 40% in the last 2 years.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

You must also realize Italy is full of ignorants,and of people who benefit from Berlusconi's "policies".

Anyway,his approvals have decreased some 40% in the last 2 years.

Also, you know, he owns half the telly (or whatever disturbingly high percentage it is) and has done for ages. And, as a result, cannot have not helped to shape social attitudes towards (for example) women.

[SPQR]

You must also realize Italy is full of ignorants,and of people who benefit from Berlusconi's "policies".

Anyway,his approvals have decreased some 40% in the last 2 years.

Also, you know, he owns half the telly (or whatever disturbingly high percentage it is) and has done for ages. And, as a result, cannot have not helped to shape social attitudes towards (for example) women.

Personally owns 3 of the main 7 channels,and controlled through the government other 2 of them (public ones)...
Anyway,fully agree with your post.

[Keystone Phil]

Of course all of this had to break during the final week of our election season here (the news of the resignation came during Election day while I was driving across my city) so I haven't been able to follow it that closely.

I read that Gianni Letta might step in after Berlusconi is gone. Is this likely or could it be Alfano or even someone else?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Of course all of this had to break during the final week of our election season here (the news of the resignation came during Election day while I was driving across my city) so I haven't been able to follow it that closely.

I read that Gianni Letta might step in after Berlusconi is gone. Is this likely or could it be Alfano or even someone else?

It wouldn't work. The PdL has clearly lost its majority, and the only two options are either a technical government or dissolution. Hoping for the first one, BTW.