What America Needs to Return to Normalcy

[fezzyfestoon]

I'm sick of hearing about "confidence" and consumer spending. How about we not return to acting the way that got us here in the first place? Overconfidence and overspending has screwed us long term. I think a knock back down to reality was just what we needed. It's fairly sobering to be forced not to be able to spend wildly on extremely unnecessary overpriced crap. We shouldn't have been for the last decade, now we literally can't. Pretending we can is impossible now. This economic disaster is just like every other problem in modern America; Ignored until you're absolutely forced to acknowledge it. Then it's too late. We wouldn't be faced with these massive problems all at once if we addressed them before they became dire. But alas, Congress is much more content to make absolutely no waves by taking absolutely no action just to protect reelection. After all, the only thing that matters in American politics is winning the election to protect your special interests.

[fezzyfestoon]

The one thing that is unaffordable right now is the federal budget. How consumers and companies spend/invest their earnings is their business, not yours or mine or anybody else's, so I would suggest avoiding value judgments about people "overspending" on "overpriced crap." Such negative sentiments among the population at large is not going to produce economic growth moving forward.

Consumers and companies have the means to spend far more than they are, but they are not doing so because they are afraid of the future. We need to eliminate this fear if we want the economy to recover, grow, and create new jobs.

It's not negative, it's realistic. I'm also sick of that garbage. As soon as criticisms come out, it's negative and unproductive. What's negative and unproductive is false positivity. Trying to pretend the problems we face aren't real is far more detrimental than acknowledging that we have problems. A negative rate of savings in the country is an unbelievably shocking and disturbing figure. That's overspending no matter how you cut it. An average of Americans spending more money than they have. I don't know how anyone can say it's inappropriate to call ourselves out there. Same goes for the housing market. I don't see how anyone could argue that wasn't overpriced. And most of the stuff we buy is marked up by astronomical proportions. It's getting cheaper to make things and more expensive to buy them. A lot of crap we buy is also designed to be low quality so we're forced to buy new crap sooner rather than later. Not negative. Realistic.

[fezzyfestoon]

The one thing that is unaffordable right now is the federal budget. How consumers and companies spend/invest their earnings is their business, not yours or mine or anybody else's, so I would suggest avoiding value judgments about people "overspending" on "overpriced crap." Such negative sentiments among the population at large is not going to produce economic growth moving forward.

Consumers and companies have the means to spend far more than they are, but they are not doing so because they are afraid of the future. We need to eliminate this fear if we want the economy to recover, grow, and create new jobs.

It's not negative, it's realistic. I'm also sick of that garbage. As soon as criticisms come out, it's negative and unproductive. What's negative and unproductive is false positivity. Trying to pretend the problems we face aren't real is far more detrimental than acknowledging that we have problems. A negative rate of savings in the country is an unbelievably shocking and disturbing figure. That's overspending no matter how you cut it. An average of Americans spending more money than they have. I don't know how anyone can say it's inappropriate to call ourselves out there. Same goes for the housing market. I don't see how anyone could argue that wasn't overpriced. And most of the stuff we buy is marked up by astronomical proportions. It's getting cheaper to make things and more expensive to buy them. A lot of crap we buy is also designed to be low quality so we're forced to buy new crap sooner rather than later. Not negative. Realistic.

Please see the edits I made while you were responding (sorry, I did not know you would respond today, or I would not have done the edits).

The only points I would add is that a high savings rate among most of the population does not necessarily lead to desirable results (See: Japan).

Secondly, most things are cheaper or of better quality today versus thirty years ago when you adjust for inflation (my personal recommendation is to do your research if most of your stuff is failing before a year is up. I definitely know where you are coming from because I have fallen victim to that myself. The best you can do is not re-buy the same product by the same company. Try another company's product until you get the value you deserve. That is how this sort of thing gets corrected. Research, and learn from mistakes/bad purchases/investments). Also, let's not forget how many goods/services are available today that were not around 10, 20, 30 years ago. We are progressing.

Finally, what you call positivity I call optimism. And America definitely needs to rejuvenate itself with a good dose of it soon. This malaise is not how things need to be.

Your points didn't add anything. Our consumption is our biggest fault. I'm not saying the singular cure to our problems and all problems is saving, it's a huge first step in solving the US' problems. We spend and waste our money with our voracious appetite for essentially useless novelty goods (as evidenced by the massive use of social networking). If we didn't overspend so much on things that lose value so rapidly (and are designed to do so) we'd have more money to spend on actual growth. The only growth we experience now is in growing the same companies making the same things the same terrible way. Planned obsolescence is something I'm assuming you've never heard of. It's very real and a definite problem we're facing as it grows out of control. Many of our largest industries are built entirely on planned obsolescence. It's lazy business and we eat it up. We buy, buy, buy to replace all the things we throw out after way too little time. It has nothing to do with the things I personally buy, but I appreciate the unnecessary and irrelevant concern.

And whatever you choose to call not solving the problems we face, I'll just keep calling it what it is. It's ignorance at its core.

[fezzyfestoon]

I don't know what I've done to insult you, Politico. But this conversation is veering in all sorts of directions I don't really want to go in. I will say that I would fully expect a massive economic contraction to occur should we start saving. Companies specializing in luxury goods, the most up-marked of them all, would start failing or be forced to come back down to reality. Also coming down to reality would be our bloated production of poor quality goods as people would start being concerned with any bit of quality. I don't blame people for their actions at all, so again I don't see why you're so perturbed by what I'm saying. It doesn't seem to be that you're understanding my point at all. Companies that collude or dominate markets (of which there are many, just google it quickly and you'll get the gist of it) force our hands. If the government did its job, they wouldn't be able to do that. So again, a lot of our poor purchasing habits aren't our faults at all. And the things that bring people "happiness" to me are embarrassingly wrong. Perhaps I am overstepping my bounds, but to me if someone's happiness is solely invested in objects being sold to them...well, that's sad and a sign of a very broken society. And it's not as though I'm passing judgement. From right where I'm sitting my BlackBerry, Dell laptop, Samsung TV remote, GameCube, Sony stereo remote, Sony sound dock remote, and many more incredibly expensive and essentially meaningless things are all within reach. It's bothersome to say the least and I'm not at all suggesting I'm above the consumerism that plagues our society. As many on here would likely relish in pointing out, I may be the poster boy here for consumerism and just about everything wrong with this country. My concern with the way we all behave is absolutely a a matter of concern with freedom. Only in the exact opposite direction you seem to think. The things we buy do enhance certain aspects of our lives. But the amount we spend on them and how well they function and enhance our lives are wildly disproportionate. For an easy example of how this is out of our control and how we largely have no choice in what we spend on, I point to viral YouTube videos. Regardless of quality, they rapidly become wildly popular. Why? Because other people are watching them. We are slaves to consumerism. Too much freedom tricks us into a state of less freedom. Unrelated, yet in the same vein is our lack of interest in zoning restrictions. A perfect example of too much freedom restricting our freedom is the strip mall. Rampant development is forcing us into our cars more often by spreading out our towns and making walkable cities impossible. That's not freedom. We're forced into the situation by artificially low prices at the gas pump, mega stores, and chain stores. They're afforded an advantage by "freedom" that restricts our freedoms. Giving business freedom is not the same as giving people freedom. We don't have a choice in many cases to choose what we'd actually prefer because of market manipulations. Our government needs to step up and give control and freedom back to consumers. Supply side economics is oppressive and unsustainable for, with a lack of a better term, the 99%.

[fezzyfestoon]

You see, the problem with what you bring up is the personal basis of the argument, az/nh. Who cares what those other people think? If the result is positive and you agree with certain aspects, who cares about your differences? It's such a negative look on it. It's another aspect of our culture that bothers me. Highlight the differences and bash the positives you yourself agree with for the sake of not associating yourself with the filth that also supports it. It's part of our mass conformity. Hating a belief for who believes in it is absolutely absurd. While I was living in Austria, it was actually inspiring to see the way the town I lived in functioned. It was an actual community, not a haphazard conglomeration of similar people who have no interest in the people surrounding them. After school, kids would go downtown to meet up with one another. After work, adults would do the same. They wanted to be together, even in the bitter cold. People weren't holding judgments or looking down on any other people. The focus was what they had in common, not their differences. In our society, it's the exact opposite dynamic. That's what bothers me. That and the fact that viewing the opposite as better means someone is a dirty, ignorant, hippy with no grasp of reality. Really? Why? Just because some over-privileged brats think it's trendy to do those things? Who cares? That doesn't change the fact that it's a good direction to be going in. I've never suggested outlawing cars or mandating an urban life. All I suggest is ending the unsustainable subsidy of an undesirable suburban culture built on division and waste.

[fezzyfestoon]

The differences I'm talking about are in the sense of disagreement, not personality or beliefs. You're not critiquing the people around you, you're critiquing a hypothetical person you've never even met. A thoroughly lazy and insincere task. It's easy to hurl insults at people you don't know. The people that surround you are the people you see every day. The people that live where you live and do things you do.

And as this conversation also spirals towards irrelevance, I'd ask above all else; What totalitarianism? That of the corporate world we now live under? Or the one I'm suggesting where the people hold the power? And who is lazy? The protesters? Every single one of them? How so? And who cares even if they are? How does that change anything? Pinning ideas to the messenger is laziness, since we're focusing on that aspect. It's avoiding the issue at hand and targeting a much more easy concept to oppose.

I'm personally finding it more and more difficult to live among a people so closed-off and hostile. Comments like "creating a special place set aside for themselves" are bizarre. I don't want to withdraw from society, I want to be a part of a society that has interest in itself. Telling people to go away and do their own thing is ridiculous. Why would I want to separate myself from the people I've grown up with and live with now? And why would people want to suggest I do so? All I've suggested is that we come together and let our similarities highlight the greatness of our differences. It is possible, I've lived it in a very real place. Yet I'm talked down to like some societal parasite for thinking I should be able to connect with my peers and neighbors. This country in general has some deep, deep problems that I'm losing faith we can fix. The hostility towards positivity makes it impossible.