Israel general discussion

[DavidB.]

do you know anything about this?

seems to be more the exception than the rule in the region.

Czech-Jewish relations in the 20th century were less strained than Hungarian-Jewish or Polish-Jewish relations and antisemitism wasn't as widespread. Part of it is that Czechs don't have their national identity tied to a religion. While being Polish is heavily tied to being Catholic and being Hungarian is at least tied to being Christian, the Czechs were nominally Catholic but this was a religion imposed on them by the Austrian Empire (see also the Wiki article on the defenestrations of Prague). Once the Austrians left, a Maria Pillar was even torn down in the Old City of Prague because as a Catholic symbol it represented Austrian rule to the Czechs. So Jews didn't pose a religious threat to Czechs' national identity. After the war there were essentially no Jews in Czechia anymore and the country forcefully became secular. After Communism secularization continued because as opposed to other countries in the region, the Czechs' religion wasn't tied to their national identity.

For obvious reasons, Nazism/Nazi Germany is typically despised by nationalists too (as opposed to some nationalists in countries that were allied with the Germans), so both from a historical and from a religious or national perspective there is very little that makes Czechs dislike Jews.

Of course, countries like Hungary and Poland aren't nearly as antisemitic as they were before, and in terms of international politics they are more pro-Israel than most Western European countries... but the level of antisemitism in Czechia is definitely lower than in other Eastern European countries for the aforementioned reasons. Sorry for rambling, hope this is a bit coherent.

[ApatheticAustrian]

Sorry for rambling, hope this is a bit coherent.

coherent and convincing enough for me, thank you.

as an austrian i am ofc blessed knowing quite a lot about the unraveling of the empire and the sentiments in the separate new "states", but i could be even more interesting for other users and your connection of the dots seems quite helpful.

i would still argue that hungary and poland are - on the personal/single citizen level - more antisemitic than, let's say, austria/netherlands, but on a foreign policy level i think you are correct.

[DavidB.]

i would still argue that hungary and poland are - on the personal/single citizen level - more antisemitic than, let's say, austria/netherlands, but on a foreign policy level i think you are correct.

Absolutely true. I experienced this myself on the subway in Budapest where I was cursed at (there was some research and Budapest is apparently the *most* antisemitic place in Hungary -- you'd expect it to be the least antisemitic place, right?). Wouldn't compare Austria to the Netherlands though: Austria is quite a bit more antisemitic than the Netherlands, at least when it comes to the prevalence of classic antisemitic stereotypes (see the annual ADL survey).

[danny]

There was a debate today for the Labour primaries with Herzog Peretz Levin Bar-Lev Gabbai and Margalit.

The climax of the event was when Margalit asked Gabbai if he voted for Likud in the past, Gabbai then made a whole thing about how he never voted Likud and how hard that is coming from a family where everyone else does. Margalit then sprung the trap and said that Gabbai once said in an interview that he voted Likud in the past, Gabbai insisted that this never happened, so Margalit takes out his phone and shows a video Gabbai saying he voted Likud. Gabbai had no answer to this and just kept pathetically repeating that he never voted Likud over and over.

[NewYorkExpress]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-40240512

Netanyahu and his wife won a libel suit against a journalist who claimed Mrs. Netanyahu had thrown her husband out of a car in a convoy.

[America Needs R'hllor]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-40240512

Netanyahu and his wife won a libel suit against a journalist who claimed Mrs. Netanyahu had thrown her husband out of a car in a convoy.

Meanwhile, Internal Security Minister Gilad Erdan falsely claimed that a Bedouin man killed in a car crash was an ISIS terrorist and got away with it. Sad.

[Hnv1]

Labour leadership debate (peace issues):
Margalit, Peretz, Bar Lev, and Levin were all to the left. Peretz said he wouldn't mind negotiating with Hamas (which de facto already happened) and releasing Bargoti. Bar Lev was generic. Levin claimed Israel shouldn't interfere with Palestinian internal politics (quite a brave stand here). Margalit had nothing too insightful.
Herzog said he was closer to Bibi than Corbyn and stressed the need for a "regional solution within the framework of 10 years". Gabbay positioned himself somewhat to the right when he said he agrees with Clinton's (billy) proposal bar for the temple mount.

Bennet spoke afterwards and said he prefers a unified Jerusalem over a peace agreement.

[Hnv1]

Party politics:
Housing Minister and MK (kulano) Yoav Galant looks dead certain to join Likud, it remains to be seen if Kachlon will sack him

Danny Danon (ambs. to the UN) is surprised that Bibi is not going to extend his term there, I am sure there is some internal politics meaning to it but I can't quite detect what

Polls for the Labour leadership campaign are being ran at a blistering pace, although unreliable somehow this industry still goes on. One from this morning: Peretz 28% Gabay 26% Margalit 15% Herzog 15% Bar Lev 9% Levin 3% others 4%. Peretz is set to reach the second round but it's uncertain who will be the second one with him. I think Levin\Bar Lev will drop soon and back Gabbay\Margalit.

Meretz, not only is there going to be a leadership election but the party convention delegates are also running for reelection in some sort of a referendum on the open primaries.

Shas, Deri is again under criminal investigation, what will happen if he is indicted is a mystery.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Yeah, these Labour polls are trash. Completely wild and unreliable, making it very hard to detect whichever ones are good. Also, is there any indication on who's leading in Meterz?

[Hnv1]

Yeah, these Labour polls are trash. Completely wild and unreliable, making it very hard to detect whichever ones are good. Also, is there any indication on who's leading in Meterz?

The election is contested between 1K convention delegates, after they're elected it will be quite certain who wins.

[DavidB.]

Shas, Deri is again under criminal investigation, what will happen if he is indicted is a mystery.

More emotional meetups with lots of supporters + his children crying?

[Hnv1]

Shas, Deri is again under criminal investigation, what will happen if he is indicted is a mystery.

More emotional meetups with lots of supporters + his children crying?

His children are not kids this time around and according to the news some of them took part and the alleged corruption

[America Needs R'hllor]

New (hopefully trash) Labour poll:

Peretz- 25%
Herzog- 24% (lol)
Bar Lev- 17% (lol)
Gabay- 15%
Margalit- 15%
Others- 4%

What contributes to this poll being trash, you ask? It was sent to Labour members along with Herzog's famous warcry of "revolution!". Yeah, we know how the revolution worked last time around. Although, it does make sense to see Gabay decreasing, he has been viciously attacked from many sides lately. I honestly think running for leader was a political mistake for him.

[NewYorkExpress]

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/travel/israeli-court-rules-el-al-airline-cannot-ask-women-move-n775391

The Jerusalem Magistrate's Court ruled that El Al cannot move women to accommodate ultra-orthodox Jewish men.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Polls are getting crazier by the day:

Herzog: 29%
Gabay: 22%
Margalit: 21%
Peretz: 19%
Bar Lev: 5%
Dina Dayan (an ultra-orthodox sephardic woman from the periphery- basically screams 'minority')- 2.5%
Amiram Levin (former General)- 1.5%

In other news, Ron Huldai, the Mayor of Tel Aviv, endorsed Herzog this week. It looks like the momentum IS with him, but I'm not sure just how strong he really is, with the polls being that fishy.
Also, Levin dropped out of the race today and endorsed Gabay. I'm not sure if it'll have any meaningful impact on the race, but maybe it will if the battle to get to the second round is tight enough.

[Hnv1]

Polls are getting crazier by the day:

Herzog: 29%
Gabay: 22%
Margalit: 21%
Peretz: 19%
Bar Lev: 5%
Dina Dayan (an ultra-orthodox sephardic woman from the periphery- basically screams 'minority')- 2.5%
Amiram Levin (former General)- 1.5%

In other news, Ron Huldai, the Mayor of Tel Aviv, endorsed Herzog this week. It looks like the momentum IS with him, but I'm not sure just how strong he really is, with the polls being that fishy.
Also, Levin dropped out of the race today and endorsed Gabay. I'm not sure if it'll have any meaningful impact on the race, but maybe it will if the battle to get to the second round is tight enough.

Polls are useless here. Let's just refrain from spreading them.
The elections will be digital so we can expect results quickly (unlike the Peres Rabin thriller in 1980 where there was a 30 hours wait)

[Hnv1]

Polls are getting crazier by the day:

Herzog: 29%
Gabay: 22%
Margalit: 21%
Peretz: 19%
Bar Lev: 5%
Dina Dayan (an ultra-orthodox sephardic woman from the periphery- basically screams 'minority')- 2.5%
Amiram Levin (former General)- 1.5%

In other news, Ron Huldai, the Mayor of Tel Aviv, endorsed Herzog this week. It looks like the momentum IS with him, but I'm not sure just how strong he really is, with the polls being that fishy.
Also, Levin dropped out of the race today and endorsed Gabay. I'm not sure if it'll have any meaningful impact on the race, but maybe it will if the battle to get to the second round is tight enough.

Polls are useless here. Let's just refrain from spreading them.
The elections will be digital so we can expect results quickly (unlike the Peres Rabin thriller in 1980 where there was a 30 hours wait)

As I said that a poll with a firmer statistical base (3K members) was conducted and the results look to correlate with reality:
Peretz 33%
Gabay 22.9%
Margalit 17.9%
Herzog 14.75%
Bar Lev 8.45%
Others 3.10%

Margalit needs a push above Gabay to get to second round. I'd offer bar Lev the sun and the moon

[America Needs R'hllor]

Polls are getting crazier by the day:

Herzog: 29%
Gabay: 22%
Margalit: 21%
Peretz: 19%
Bar Lev: 5%
Dina Dayan (an ultra-orthodox sephardic woman from the periphery- basically screams 'minority')- 2.5%
Amiram Levin (former General)- 1.5%

In other news, Ron Huldai, the Mayor of Tel Aviv, endorsed Herzog this week. It looks like the momentum IS with him, but I'm not sure just how strong he really is, with the polls being that fishy.
Also, Levin dropped out of the race today and endorsed Gabay. I'm not sure if it'll have any meaningful impact on the race, but maybe it will if the battle to get to the second round is tight enough.

Polls are useless here. Let's just refrain from spreading them.
The elections will be digital so we can expect results quickly (unlike the Peres Rabin thriller in 1980 where there was a 30 hours wait)

As I said that a poll with a firmer statistical base (3K members) was conducted and the results look to correlate with reality:
Peretz 33%
Gabay 22.9%
Margalit 17.9%
Herzog 14.75%
Bar Lev 8.45%
Others 3.10%

Margalit needs a push above Gabay to get to second round. I'd offer bar Lev the sun and the moon

Funny that no one saw fit to send this one to Labour members
Instead, they sent one where Bar Lev is at 21. Sigh.

[DavidB.]

When do we get the result of this? Feels like this has been taking longer than the Democratic primary did.

[America Needs R'hllor]

When do we get the result of this? Feels like this has been taking longer than the Democratic primary did.

Yeah, it's getting tiring. The first round is on July 4th, the second round, I believe, on July 14th.

[Hnv1]

When do we get the result of this? Feels like this has been taking longer than the Democratic primary did.

Yeah, it's getting tiring. The first round is on July 4th, the second round, I believe, on July 14th.

Second round is on July 10th

You can see the poll here http://2sms.bz/files/423a98afa3b247a589aabba7b4c00c62.pdf
My uncle is a Labour member and he got it by SMS

[Hnv1]

Labour Leadership primaries will take place tomorrow. We are now down to 7 contenders and 5 big ones so I will refer to it as the war of the five beggar kings. I anticipate Peretz to make it to the second round the rest is too fuzzy to determine. The amount of energy spent on this campaign was incredible considering the party is dying. Results will be announced tomorrow night.

Meretz convention rejected a proposal to move into an open primaries system (US style) and the decision to call an early leadership election was rejected by the party's tribunal as unconstitutional. Gilon and his followers demand Galon to resign.

Party politics elsewhere is in a slumber.

I endorse Margalit tomorrow and call for him to break away with Livni to join Galon in some new Liberal-progressive bloc (let Peretz and Gilon build their 1950's socialist party)

[America Needs R'hllor]

Labour Leadership primaries will take place tomorrow. We are now down to 7 contenders and 5 big ones so I will refer to it as the war of the five beggar kings. I anticipate Peretz to make it to the second round the rest is too fuzzy to determine. The amount of energy spent on this campaign was incredible considering the party is dying. Results will be announced tomorrow night.

Meretz convention rejected a proposal to move into an open primaries system (US style) and the decision to call an early leadership election was rejected by the party's tribunal as unconstitutional. Gilon and his followers demand Galon to resign.

Party politics elsewhere is in a slumber.

I endorse Margalit tomorrow and call for him to break away with Livni to join Galon in some new Liberal-progressive bloc (let Peretz and Gilon build their 1950's socialist party)

Yeah, I'm voting for Margalit tomorrow.
Also, polls sent to Labour members in the last few days were absolutely hilarious: in one occasion, they sent the results of a 'final poll', then sent them again with a correction, then sent them again with ANOTHER correction. And then it happened with yet another 'poll', this time only one correction.

[DavidB.]

I'm getting more and more convinced that economic injustice is the most urgent problem in Israel and that it has to be solved. Corruption, oligarchy and extreme capitalism affect the nation negatively in all sorts of ways. Many people are almost enslaved by their employer.

Who should I support if I want a Labour Party that is focused on the dire employment situation millions of Israelis face and wants to change the complete system, but isn't interested in embracing the far-left NGOs and anti-Zionists, has a sense of responsibility when it comes to national security and cares about Israel's Jewish future?

[SATW]

nooo, you joining the dark side