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sverkol
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« Reply #1375 on: February 22, 2018, 05:58:51 PM »
« edited: February 22, 2018, 06:03:44 PM by sverkol »

Gabay admitted that the falling of the Labour party on the polls is part of his fault,now he should step down and give to a real leader the chance to beat the corrupt Likud government.
My offer is Tzipi Livni-smart,talented,charismatic,experienced and beautiful women.
The leader of the ZU must be the leader of the Labour party. As to her appearance, I don't see how that's relevant, Shaked is rather attractive yet I would rather have Hazan as PM.

Well the news is all doom and gloom today with everyone asking when instead of if he should resign\be forced out. I think it will take a while but when it does it will be similar to the last 2 days, one crack in the dam and the coalition with his premiership will be dead and we'll have a snap election.
If Livni would decide to run separately from the Labour,she has my vote.
I am not ready to support right-winger even if he is from my party.
Snap election isn't going to happean! Kahlon made it pretty claer.

Livni isn't that much of a leftist either. I respect her, but she was a classical Likud member once, then she was a centrist, then she joined Netanyahu's government (and sat with Bennett) and now she's in an alliance with Labour. That's not a particularly leftist record.
Maybe your idol mister kibin**at Margalit sees that being a former Likud member/voter
as a bad thing,but i don't see any problem.
Livni committed to the peace since she left the Liked with Sharon,Olmert and others.
She joined to a Liked govermont for a peace deal.
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Parrotguy
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« Reply #1376 on: February 22, 2018, 06:05:34 PM »

Gabay admitted that the falling of the Labour party on the polls is part of his fault,now he should step down and give to a real leader the chance to beat the corrupt Likud government.
My offer is Tzipi Livni-smart,talented,charismatic,experienced and beautiful women.
The leader of the ZU must be the leader of the Labour party. As to her appearance, I don't see how that's relevant, Shaked is rather attractive yet I would rather have Hazan as PM.

Well the news is all doom and gloom today with everyone asking when instead of if he should resign\be forced out. I think it will take a while but when it does it will be similar to the last 2 days, one crack in the dam and the coalition with his premiership will be dead and we'll have a snap election.
If Livni would decide to run separately from the Labour,she has my vote.
I am not ready to support right-winger even if he is from my party.
Snap election isn't going to happean! Kahlon made it pretty claer.

Livni isn't that much of a leftist either. I respect her, but she was a classical Likud member once, then she was a centrist, then she joined Netanyahu's government (and sat with Bennett) and now she's in an alliance with Labour. That's not a particularly leftist record.
Maybe your idol mister kibin**at Margalit sees that being a former Likud member/voter
as a bad thing,but i don't see any problem.
Livni committed to the peace since she left the Liked with Sharon,Olmert and others.
She joined to a Liked govermont for a peace deal.

Lol, I'm just saying that if you accuse Gabbay of being a right-winger, Livni isn't some leftist hero either. That's all.
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sverkol
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« Reply #1377 on: February 23, 2018, 11:46:54 AM »
« Edited: February 23, 2018, 11:52:43 AM by sverkol »

Gabay admitted that the falling of the Labour party on the polls is part of his fault,now he should step down and give to a real leader the chance to beat the corrupt Likud government.
My offer is Tzipi Livni-smart,talented,charismatic,experienced and beautiful women.
The leader of the ZU must be the leader of the Labour party. As to her appearance, I don't see how that's relevant, Shaked is rather attractive yet I would rather have Hazan as PM.

Well the news is all doom and gloom today with everyone asking when instead of if he should resign\be forced out. I think it will take a while but when it does it will be similar to the last 2 days, one crack in the dam and the coalition with his premiership will be dead and we'll have a snap election.
If Livni would decide to run separately from the Labour,she has my vote.
I am not ready to support right-winger even if he is from my party.
Snap election isn't going to happean! Kahlon made it pretty claer.

Livni isn't that much of a leftist either. I respect her, but she was a classical Likud member once, then she was a centrist, then she joined Netanyahu's government (and sat with Bennett) and now she's in an alliance with Labour. That's not a particularly leftist record.
Maybe your idol mister kibin**at Margalit sees that being a former Likud member/voter
as a bad thing,but i don't see any problem.
Livni committed to the peace since she left the Liked with Sharon,Olmert and others.
She joined to a Liked govermont for a peace deal.

Lol, I'm just saying that if you accuse Gabbay of being a right-winger, Livni isn't some leftist hero either. That's all.
Gabbay said that he won't evacuate settlemenst and Livni spoke against it.
She is leftier than Gabbay.
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sverkol
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« Reply #1378 on: February 25, 2018, 05:31:46 PM »
« Edited: February 25, 2018, 05:40:23 PM by sverkol »

Channel 10 published a tax massage between the judge and the prosecutor in case 4000 in which they coordinated arrests.
Netanyahu going to celebrate this and unfortunately he has a justified reason.
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Hnv1
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« Reply #1379 on: February 26, 2018, 11:07:39 AM »

Channel 10 published a tax massage between the judge and the prosecutor in case 4000 in which they coordinated arrests.
Netanyahu going to celebrate this and unfortunately he has a justified reason.
She's a magistrate court judge whose only role is examining prolonging of detentions, and he's not the prosecutor but an investigator with the stock market regulator (so but one aspect of the case). And the full manuscript shows it's bad but not that bad.
It also has little bearing on Netanyahu in person, he's going to be questioned on this case for the first time on Friday (a weasel trick by him as police wanted to question him earlier while most other suspects are in custody and can't coordinate versions but the King is too busy).

On Wednesday the Haredi party want to pass in first hearing a new Basic Law that says Yeshiva study is a supreme value above equality so the SC will not be able to strike down draft exemption bills. Lieberman and Kachlon oppose this move (so should Bibi, most Likud members would like it either).
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« Reply #1380 on: February 26, 2018, 11:15:05 AM »

On Wednesday the Haredi party want to pass in first hearing a new Basic Law that says Yeshiva study is a supreme value above equality so the SC will not be able to strike down draft exemption bills. Lieberman and Kachlon oppose this move (so should Bibi, most Likud members would like it either).

Jeez, living in a Theocracy is going to be so fun.
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DavidB.
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« Reply #1381 on: February 26, 2018, 11:52:08 AM »

On Wednesday the Haredi party want to pass in first hearing a new Basic Law that says Yeshiva study is a supreme value above equality so the SC will not be able to strike down draft exemption bills.
This is ridiculous.
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Hnv1
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« Reply #1382 on: February 26, 2018, 12:49:56 PM »

On Wednesday the Haredi party want to pass in first hearing a new Basic Law that says Yeshiva study is a supreme value above equality so the SC will not be able to strike down draft exemption bills.
This is ridiculous.
So was the judicial decision to acknowledge a constitutional power with the legislature that only requires a majority of 61 votes and the bill to be labeled as a "Basic Law". Hans Kelsen must be going mental in his grave.

But it was only a matter of time before the Knesset would abuse the constitutional power, and it was all said in the 90's by Heshin. Now Barak (the justice) is saying other things and says the court can strike down constitutional amendments as unconstitutional according to "basic values" or the grundnorm, everyone warned him...
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Boobs
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« Reply #1383 on: February 26, 2018, 01:14:01 PM »

The theocracy is inevitable as the Haredi are the only ones actually having kids Sad

It's too bad that the secular right would rather be in bed with the ultraorthodox wing for their own goals rather than work with the centre/centre-left in order to maintain secularism.
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Parrotguy
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« Reply #1384 on: February 26, 2018, 01:18:42 PM »
« Edited: February 26, 2018, 01:23:46 PM by Parrotguy »

The theocracy is inevitable as the Haredi are the only ones actually having kids Sad

It's too bad that the secular right would rather be in bed with the ultraorthodox wing for their own goals rather than work with the centre/centre-left in order to maintain secularism.

Nah. There are a number of trends which I believe will counter that- Haredi youths are secularizing and leaving their sect in record numbers with the help of the information revolution, and the deaths of major Haredi leaders, which will lead to more and more fracturing and less and less authority for their heirs, will significantly weaken that community. In the end, the bubble will burst. There's a reason their leaders are panicking about Iphones and calling for them to be destroyed- they're shaking in fear that their zombies will start learning about the world and realize how outdated their sect is.

Just this week, the leader of an extremist Jerusalemite sect of the Litheanian Haredi community (which fractured after the death of their last leader into that one and a relatively more moderate one, whose leader also recently passed away) died. He constantly commanded mass protests against conscription, which completely jammed Jerusalem (and thus made him very hated by many, including myself), so he had control of his people. Now, he died without a clear heir afaik.
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« Reply #1385 on: February 26, 2018, 01:25:14 PM »

The theocracy is inevitable as the Haredi are the only ones actually having kids Sad

It's too bad that the secular right would rather be in bed with the ultraorthodox wing for their own goals rather than work with the centre/centre-left in order to maintain secularism.

Nah. There are a number of trends which I believe will counter that- Haredi youths are secularizing and leaving their sect in record numbers with the help of the information revolution, and the deaths of major Haredi leaders, which will lead to more and more fracturing and less and less authority for their heirs, will significantly weaken that community. In the end, the bubble will burst. There's a reason their leaders are panicking about Iphones and calling for them to be destroyed- they're shaking in fear that their zombies will start learning about the world and realize how outdated their sect is.

Well, that's hopeful. I might actually move back to Israel if that's the case.

It's kinda sad, though, to see the death of the left wing in Israel. Maybe after Likud's troubles with Netayahu and the possible Lapid ministry (which will undoubtedly be a failure seeing as he has no spine or ideology), maybe the Left can roar back to life. 
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Parrotguy
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« Reply #1386 on: February 26, 2018, 03:38:18 PM »

The theocracy is inevitable as the Haredi are the only ones actually having kids Sad

It's too bad that the secular right would rather be in bed with the ultraorthodox wing for their own goals rather than work with the centre/centre-left in order to maintain secularism.

Nah. There are a number of trends which I believe will counter that- Haredi youths are secularizing and leaving their sect in record numbers with the help of the information revolution, and the deaths of major Haredi leaders, which will lead to more and more fracturing and less and less authority for their heirs, will significantly weaken that community. In the end, the bubble will burst. There's a reason their leaders are panicking about Iphones and calling for them to be destroyed- they're shaking in fear that their zombies will start learning about the world and realize how outdated their sect is.

Well, that's hopeful. I might actually move back to Israel if that's the case.

It's kinda sad, though, to see the death of the left wing in Israel. Maybe after Likud's troubles with Netayahu and the possible Lapid ministry (which will undoubtedly be a failure seeing as he has no spine or ideology), maybe the Left can roar back to life. 

Agreed, one can only hope. Right now, our political situation is very bleak- the people seem completely blind to Bibi's horridness and keep supporting him, and the left is miserable. There is, pretty much, no good option. But we'll see what happens in the future, I guess.
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sverkol
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« Reply #1387 on: February 27, 2018, 10:43:12 AM »
« Edited: February 27, 2018, 11:01:55 AM by sverkol »

Livni spoke an amazing speech in the knesset against baning breaking the silence in schools bill.
Gabbay few mounth ago spoke against "Braking the silence",he is no better than Netanyhau.
Livni should run separately from the Labour and take with her mk's like Yossi Yona ans Shapir.
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DavidB.
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« Reply #1388 on: February 27, 2018, 10:57:45 AM »

Livni spoke an amazing speech in the knesset against baning breaking the silence in schools bill.
Livni is truly the Israeli equivalent of U.S. liberal politicians who go full idpol while refusing to talk about class and wealth inequality, thereby playing into the hands of the right. "I want them to talk about racism every day. If the left is focused on race and identity, and we go with economic nationalism, we can crush the Democrats", Bannon said. Likud wants the left to talk about Breaking the Silence every day. This ensures the next right-wing victory in Israel.

I don't mind, but I guess you do.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #1389 on: February 27, 2018, 11:44:38 AM »

The theocracy is inevitable as the Haredi are the only ones actually having kids Sad

It's too bad that the secular right would rather be in bed with the ultraorthodox wing for their own goals rather than work with the centre/centre-left in order to maintain secularism.

Nah. There are a number of trends which I believe will counter that- Haredi youths are secularizing and leaving their sect in record numbers with the help of the information revolution,


That's very interesting if true. Do you have any links/stats to support your thesis?

I'm a tad skeptical of Haredi decline (as opposed to US Evangelical decline) since their birth rates are so high (6+ births per women vs 2ish for non-Haredi I think). If the Haredi share of the population shrunk, that would imply a terrible retention rate, like sub 50%. That seems too low.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #1390 on: February 27, 2018, 11:57:23 AM »

The theocracy is inevitable as the Haredi are the only ones actually having kids Sad

It's too bad that the secular right would rather be in bed with the ultraorthodox wing for their own goals rather than work with the centre/centre-left in order to maintain secularism.

Is the secular right actually that secular.? I thought a lot of Likud support came from non-ultraorthodox, but still religious Jews. Am I mistaken?
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Vosem
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« Reply #1391 on: February 27, 2018, 12:25:26 PM »

The theocracy is inevitable as the Haredi are the only ones actually having kids Sad

It's too bad that the secular right would rather be in bed with the ultraorthodox wing for their own goals rather than work with the centre/centre-left in order to maintain secularism.

Nah. There are a number of trends which I believe will counter that- Haredi youths are secularizing and leaving their sect in record numbers with the help of the information revolution,


That's very interesting if true. Do you have any links/stats to support your thesis?

I'm a tad skeptical of Haredi decline (as opposed to US Evangelical decline) since their birth rates are so high (6+ births per women vs 2ish for non-Haredi I think). If the Haredi share of the population shrunk, that would imply a terrible retention rate, like sub 50%. That seems too low.

http://www.pewforum.org/2016/03/08/israels-religiously-divided-society/

Lots and lots of statistics here which both back up and contradict your points. The Haredi do have the highest birth rate in Israeli Jewish society (the survey doesn't break down 7+, but if we take the average 7+ family as having 8 children and the other categories at midpoints we can come up with averages), at 5.2 children for the average person, but this seems to be declining rather precipitously (apparently it was over 10 when the State of Israel was established), and even secular Israelis ("Hilonim") average 3.0 children. (Groups between Haredim and Hilonim obviously have birthrates between those numbers). Younger Israeli society is more religious than older Israeli society (8% of Israelis over 50 are Haredi, compared with 12% of Israelis under 30; 52% of Israelis over 50 are Hilonim compared with just 44% of Israelis under 30), but the pace of change is happening pretty slowly. Categories between Haredim and Hilonim are gaining adherents rapidly, but there are some indicators that older members of these categories are more religious than younger members; the trend of fewer people identifying as secular may not be as strong as the trend of fewer people actually being secular.

On the religious practice questions, most (such as lighting candles for the Sabbath) see younger Israelis as significantly more observant than older Israelis, especially on questions of ritual (more than half of self-identified Hilonim light Sabbath candles "sometimes"), but technology-related ones see a less pronounced trend, or in one case (travel on the Sabbath) an actual reversal. On the public policy questions, the difference tends to be about 4 points (26% of over-50s support halakha overriding law, and 30% of under-50s; 15% of over-50s support gender segregation on public transportation, and 19% of under-50s), with the exception being issues related to the Haredi community; notably, Israelis under 50 are more supportive of drafting Haredim than Israelis over 50 are. A more religious society is not necessarily one that is friendlier to the Haredim.

Still, the religious character of modern Israeli Jewish society shouldn't be overemphasized. 50% of Israeli Jews describe their frequency of prayer as "never" (which strongly implies there are people who light Sabbath candles sometimes but never pray, which strikes me as really odd). 59% of Israeli Jews read religious texts "never".

In terms of switching, hardly any Haredim or Hilonim leave their religious subgroup (retention rates are 94% and 90%). However, groups between them have much lower retention rates (as low as 54% for Datiim) and switching is overwhelmingly to the next less observant subgroup. Few people become more observant, though Hilonim are a sufficiently large category (49% of all Jews) that the numbers are larger than they look: 8% of Jews have switched to a more observant subgroup, and 13% have switched to a less observant one. There may be a long-term polarization going on: Haredim and Hilonim gain more than they lose, while groups between them lose more than they gain. (...However, the generational figures suggest all groups are slowly gaining at the expense of Hilonim. Differences in birthrates matter, and my method of calculating them might de-emphasize differences). Answers to some of the other questions imply that "centrist" groups are also (very, very) slowly becoming more secular, or perhaps just more hostile to Haredim (in addition to the Haredi draft question, in spite of younger Israelis being much more religious in terms of self-identification and ritual, there's very little difference between older and younger Israelis on the question of allowing women to pray at the Western Wall, which suggests modern society's gender norms are penetrating the "centrist" groups between Haredim and Hilonim).

Long story short: Haredim are increasing as a percentage of Israeli society, but they are starting from a low base, not growing all that much faster than the rest of society, and the speed of their gains is slowing. Society taken as an absolute whole is therefore absolutely becoming more religious. However, whether Israeli society minus Haredim (which, given that Haredi tend to live in overwhelmingly Haredi communities and have few friends outside those communities, is absolutely a relevant bloc) is becoming more religious or more secular is kind of unclear, and to some extent the answer seems to be both: the society is becoming less secular, but also incorporating more secular elements into that religiosity, which I'm aware is kind of a non-answer or dodge to the question. A different way to put this might be that Haredi are growing, but there are some signs of an emerging Haredi vs. not-Haredi polarization, or a slow convergence between not-Haredi groups. Decide for yourself.
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Parrotguy
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« Reply #1392 on: February 28, 2018, 05:26:03 AM »
« Edited: February 28, 2018, 06:03:59 AM by Parrotguy »

Zehava Galon just dropped out of the Meretz leadership race.
I guess I'm endorsing Zandberg, but the chances I'm voting for Meretz in the election have just grown significantly lower.

@Vosem: This is an interesting post. Indeed, a more religious society doesn't mean one more friendly to the Haredim- we saw, for example, in the last mayoral race in the City of Beit Shemesh, that it was basically a proxy war between the Haredi population that invaded the city and claimed it as its own (represented by the incumbent, Mr. "There Are No Gays In Beit Shemesh") and a kippa-wearing candidate supported by both secular and religious voters who aren't Haredim- aka Datiim). The incumbent won, but in any case, we saw all stripes of Israeli society uniting against the Haredim. On the question of the draft, it makes sense that you'll see more support than, say, for public transportation in Shabbat- after all, the religious group ("religious zionism") are frevently pro-IDF. My points weren't backed by any statistics- I guess I'm just an optimist, but I believe that, with their powerful leaders dying off, the Haredi sect ultimately cannot survive in the modern world, kinda like primitive tribes in Brazil. There's simply no way to keep such a huge population enslaved to strict rules and restrictions on technology, sexuality and, for about a half of this population (women), their very independence as human beings, without that bubble bursting in the end.

EDIT: Looks like Ilan Gilon dropped out too?! All hail Queen Zandberg, I guess, but I have no idea what's happening and what deal they wrought.

EDIT2: Gilon dropped out because of health reasons. His voice seemed a bit slurred in the announcement video, but he didn't say the specific reason. I guess he felt free to drop out after he saw Zehava did.
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Hnv1
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« Reply #1393 on: February 28, 2018, 06:18:18 AM »

Breaking: it’s a coronation but the race is not over, Buskila is trying to pull the Galon supporters. I’m also suspicious when both this bitter rivals who can stand each others presence drop out within 20 minutes
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Parrotguy
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« Reply #1394 on: February 28, 2018, 06:21:38 AM »

Breaking: it’s a coronation but the race is not over, Buskila is trying to pull the Galon supporters. I’m also suspicious when both this bitter rivals who can stand each others presence drop out within 20 minutes

Any chance someone new enters or nah?
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MaxQue
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« Reply #1395 on: February 28, 2018, 09:26:27 AM »

The theocracy is inevitable as the Haredi are the only ones actually having kids Sad

It's too bad that the secular right would rather be in bed with the ultraorthodox wing for their own goals rather than work with the centre/centre-left in order to maintain secularism.

Is the secular right actually that secular.? I thought a lot of Likud support came from non-ultraorthodox, but still religious Jews. Am I mistaken?

Well, they are secular in the sense than they don't want to grant more privileges to the ultraorthodox, privileges than other religious Jews don't have.
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Hnv1
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« Reply #1396 on: February 28, 2018, 10:52:23 AM »

Breaking: it’s a coronation but the race is not over, Buskila is trying to pull the Galon supporters. I’m also suspicious when both this bitter rivals who can stand each others presence drop out within 20 minutes

Any chance someone new enters or nah?
Deadline passed. I heard Galon is thinking of supporting Buskila
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Vosem
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« Reply #1397 on: February 28, 2018, 05:18:21 PM »

Zehava Galon just dropped out of the Meretz leadership race.
I guess I'm endorsing Zandberg, but the chances I'm voting for Meretz in the election have just grown significantly lower.

@Vosem: This is an interesting post. Indeed, a more religious society doesn't mean one more friendly to the Haredim- we saw, for example, in the last mayoral race in the City of Beit Shemesh, that it was basically a proxy war between the Haredi population that invaded the city and claimed it as its own (represented by the incumbent, Mr. "There Are No Gays In Beit Shemesh") and a kippa-wearing candidate supported by both secular and religious voters who aren't Haredim- aka Datiim). The incumbent won, but in any case, we saw all stripes of Israeli society uniting against the Haredim. On the question of the draft, it makes sense that you'll see more support than, say, for public transportation in Shabbat- after all, the religious group ("religious zionism") are frevently pro-IDF. My points weren't backed by any statistics- I guess I'm just an optimist, but I believe that, with their powerful leaders dying off, the Haredi sect ultimately cannot survive in the modern world, kinda like primitive tribes in Brazil. There's simply no way to keep such a huge population enslaved to strict rules and restrictions on technology, sexuality and, for about a half of this population (women), their very independence as human beings, without that bubble bursting in the end.

EDIT: Looks like Ilan Gilon dropped out too?! All hail Queen Zandberg, I guess, but I have no idea what's happening and what deal they wrought.

EDIT2: Gilon dropped out because of health reasons. His voice seemed a bit slurred in the announcement video, but he didn't say the specific reason. I guess he felt free to drop out after he saw Zehava did.

A really interesting thing I found in the Pew data, which Pew didn't really talk about, was how on pretty much every religious issue the difference between old and young is smaller than the difference between old and young on self-identification. Israelis under 30 are 8% less Hiloni than Israelis over 50, but on no specific public policy issue are they more than 4% more religious (which tracks with Haredi going from 8% to 12% of society), and there are some where there's no difference or younger Israelis even take the less religious position (attitudes towards Haredim are the only ones that show the reverse pattern, but there's basically no generational difference on attitudes towards modern technology and women's rights). So it seems pretty reasonable to conclude that groups like Datiim/Masortim are slowly getting less observant (particularly on things like use of modern technology and women's rights) even as they become a larger part of society at the expense of Hilonim.

Which backs up my basic point that Jewish rituals, or affirmations of Judaism, are becoming more universal (there was something in there about younger self-identified Hilonim being more likely to light Shabbat candles than older Hilonim, for instance) without society's values really changing, which suggests that the non-Haredi parts of Israeli society are all slowly converging with each other.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #1398 on: February 28, 2018, 08:39:45 PM »

The original post on Israeli was excellent Vosem. We need more stuff like that on the forum.
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« Reply #1399 on: February 28, 2018, 10:25:04 PM »

Zehava Galon just dropped out of the Meretz leadership race.
I guess I'm endorsing Zandberg, but the chances I'm voting for Meretz in the election have just grown significantly lower.

@Vosem: This is an interesting post. Indeed, a more religious society doesn't mean one more friendly to the Haredim- we saw, for example, in the last mayoral race in the City of Beit Shemesh, that it was basically a proxy war between the Haredi population that invaded the city and claimed it as its own (represented by the incumbent, Mr. "There Are No Gays In Beit Shemesh") and a kippa-wearing candidate supported by both secular and religious voters who aren't Haredim- aka Datiim). The incumbent won, but in any case, we saw all stripes of Israeli society uniting against the Haredim. On the question of the draft, it makes sense that you'll see more support than, say, for public transportation in Shabbat- after all, the religious group ("religious zionism") are frevently pro-IDF. My points weren't backed by any statistics- I guess I'm just an optimist, but I believe that, with their powerful leaders dying off, the Haredi sect ultimately cannot survive in the modern world, kinda like primitive tribes in Brazil. There's simply no way to keep such a huge population enslaved to strict rules and restrictions on technology, sexuality and, for about a half of this population (women), their very independence as human beings, without that bubble bursting in the end.

EDIT: Looks like Ilan Gilon dropped out too?! All hail Queen Zandberg, I guess, but I have no idea what's happening and what deal they wrought.

EDIT2: Gilon dropped out because of health reasons. His voice seemed a bit slurred in the announcement video, but he didn't say the specific reason. I guess he felt free to drop out after he saw Zehava did.

A really interesting thing I found in the Pew data, which Pew didn't really talk about, was how on pretty much every religious issue the difference between old and young is smaller than the difference between old and young on self-identification. Israelis under 30 are 8% less Hiloni than Israelis over 50, but on no specific public policy issue are they more than 4% more religious (which tracks with Haredi going from 8% to 12% of society), and there are some where there's no difference or younger Israelis even take the less religious position (attitudes towards Haredim are the only ones that show the reverse pattern, but there's basically no generational difference on attitudes towards modern technology and women's rights). So it seems pretty reasonable to conclude that groups like Datiim/Masortim are slowly getting less observant (particularly on things like use of modern technology and women's rights) even as they become a larger part of society at the expense of Hilonim.

Which backs up my basic point that Jewish rituals, or affirmations of Judaism, are becoming more universal (there was something in there about younger self-identified Hilonim being more likely to light Shabbat candles than older Hilonim, for instance) without society's values really changing, which suggests that the non-Haredi parts of Israeli society are all slowly converging with each other.

Similar trends in the US where American youth are less likely to identify as atheist but more atheistic than any generation in the past. This is mostly due to a stigma that atheism is associated with anti-Muslim bigotry. I don't know if it's similar in Israel. Maybe atheism is associated with anti-Ultra Orthodox bigotry? Are Israeli youth more pro or anti-Ultra Orthodox?
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