Israel general discussion

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

also, are we just not going to talk talk about Gaza?  Even after 200 rockets in a day and the largest IDF response since 2014?

We could talk about Hamas' idiocy, but that's nothing new, just the particular form of it with the added addition of the incendiary balloons/kites of late.  Neither what Hamas is doing, nor the IDF's response, which so far appears to be proportionate, changes anything. At this point, it's the Middle Eastern equivalent of yet another school shooting.

[Kingpoleon]

Could we take a moment to talk about how Parrotguy supports BLM but thinks Women at the Wall is too in-your-face?

[DavidB.]

Could we take a moment to talk about how Parrotguy supports BLM but thinks Women at the Wall is too in-your-face?

His quote:

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So he also supports Women of the Wall, despite thinking they're too in-your-face sometimes. He might very well have the exact same opinion of BLM.

[America Needs R'hllor]

That's a very interesting discussion happening here. I don't have time to write a huge effortpost (exam tomorrow, hahahimdead). But a few points:

1. I agree with Sunrise on most points, actually. Though I do disagree that Obama presented a real break from Israel- he mostly continued to support us when it was needed, and I actually am supportive of the U.S. putting pressure- on both sides (with the Palestinian side, the one that derailed peace more, receiving the most pressure), so he wasn't entirely wrong though he handled the situation badly.

2. I also believe that giving Reform and Conservative Jews in Israel full recognition will only have positive effects- currently, the Orthodox Haredim are making Judaism almost hated for many secular Jews. It's potentially dangerous for those who believe in religion and tradition, especially since the longterm trend might favour secularization like in the rest of the Western World. Many secular Israelis would feel closer to the Jewish tradition if they felt it was more open and pluralistic. It's different in America, which isn't really a greenhouse for Jews like Israel.

3. Switching our alliance to Russia would definitely not be something I'd support. Both because of the moral issue- it would cause the (powerful) LGBT community to turn even more sharply to the left since now Israeli interests would be opposed to LGBT interests. Additionally, it's generally not a good idea to go with the reactionary side in global conflicts. Putin might be strong now, but he won't be there forever.

4. Which brings me to my next point- the Democratic Party. I'm, too, worried about the state of things. We need to have both parties be pro-Israeli, considering how American politics are a pendelum. Right now, the situation is fine- the Senate Democratic Leader is one of Israel's greatest allies in American politics. If the AOC types keep winning, it'll become problematic, and the Democratic youth's anti-Israel views are certainly worrying, but I have hope that the extremism will ebb. But, if the Israeli-Palestinian conflict continues for years more without any resolution in sight, it'll get bad for us. I also don't view the Iran Deal as a sign of anti-Israel Democrats- I'm on the fence, but there are some legitimate arguments that this deal is in our interests. So we gotta accept that we have our differences, and that they won't tear us apart.

5. True Federalist is right about the Hamas issue- they're terrible etc but I, for one, am tired of talking about these cycles.

6. DavidB is correct about Women on the Wall and BLM Also, Kingpolen sure has a long memory- I don't even rememer the last time I discussed BLM

[DavidB.]

6. DavidB is correct about Women on the Wall and BLM

*snap* This one is preserved for eternity Good luck tomorrow!

[SATW]

Good luck, ParrotGuy

[dead0man]

also, are we just not going to talk talk about Gaza?  Even after 200 rockets in a day and the largest IDF response since 2014?

now they're murdering falcons in the hopes of causing more environmental damage

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[America Needs R'hllor]

Despite initially claiming that he supports surrogacy for homosexual parents, Netanyahu has once again allied himself with the homophobes and voted against the clause that was supposed to include homosexuals in the new, anti-gay surrogacy law. Who would've thought.

[America Needs R'hllor]

A Jewish Conservative Rabbie was arrested and questioned by the police today for the crime of conducting marriage ceremonies outside if the Chief Rabbinate, after the Orthodox Haifa Rabbinic Courthouse filed a complaint against him. This is the first time that the law condemning anyone who conducts wedding ceremonies outside of the Rabbinate for up to two years in prison is enforced. He says that the police knocked on his house's door in 5:30 and took him to the station like the lowliest of criminals.

[DavidB.]

Very good. I like Ben Gurion's principle of "the synagogue I don't pray in is Orthodox". Be as observant (or not) as you want. But don't distort Judaism.

The nation-state bill was adopted, but without the clause regarding segregated communities. Hope Reuven Rivlin is proud of the fact that the Galil's Jewish character is being watered down. What a Zionist

[America Needs R'hllor]

Very good. I like Ben Gurion's principle of "the synagogue I don't pray in is Orthodox". Be as observant (or not) as you want. But don't distort Judaism.

You support religious oppression? Because that's purely what they did to this Rabbie by punishing him for conducting a ceremony. It wasn't even recognized by the state- it's just a ceremony.
The Attorney General ordered the police not to arrest this man, and for a good reason. Today we saw Israel come one step closer to theocracy.

Also, my university, the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, declared in an email that they fully support the lgbtq community's struggle for parental rights. This is after many large companies declared that they will give lgbtq workers a day off inthe strike scheduled for Sunday. The university is closed in Sunday due to Tisha B'Av, so they obviously didn't make the same statement, but implied they would if the university worked that day.

[Torie]

Despite initially claiming that he supports surrogacy for homosexual parents, Netanyahu has once again allied himself with the homophobes and voted against the clause that was supposed to include homosexuals in the new, anti-gay surrogacy law. Who would've thought.

What do you think of the below, which I lifted from the Jerusalem Post? Is it true the bill would have failed if it included homosexuals, and that is why he didn't include it, but he does support the concept and would personally vote for it. Is that all BS?

"Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said in a video posted to YouTube that he still supports surrogacy for both mothers and fathers, notwithstanding that he voted against an amendment proposed by Likud MK Amir Ohana granting single men access to surrogacy.

' “Today we voted in favor of a law for mothers. I told MK Ohana ahead of time that I would not support his current amendment because it would topple the law and then mothers would not have access to surrogacy. Despite that, I said that if he introduces a law for fathers, I will support it. This is the right thing to do,” he said."

[Silent Hunter]

This map shocked Obama.



https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-map-of-israeli-settlements-that-shocked-barack-obama

This map is misleading, though. There are only a few actually big blocks of settlements which can no longer be dismantled, the rest are scattered and small. There are a lot of empty areas too. But, I'm also worried that the settlements will keep expanding and derail a two-state solution, and thus a liveable Jewish country.

It does make obvious that pretty much in every instance, if there is a choice between inconveniencing the settlers and making life miserable for the Palestinians, the Israel occupation has chosen the latter rather than former.  Israel has chosen to divide the Palestinian areas into hundreds of isolated ghettos, apparently just so that the settlers can go directly from settlement A to settlement B rather than having to take a longer route.

Maps like this are ultimately a bit misleading as they ignore the fact a lot of that area is desert and more of it used to be in the past.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Maps like this are ultimately a bit misleading as they ignore the fact a lot of that area is desert and more of it used to be in the past.

So if the areas that would change the West Bank from hundreds of isolated ghettos to even just tens of ghettos are just unimportant desert, why not improve the ability of Palestinians to freely move about by giving them at least Area B status?

Also, if you're suggesting by "more of it used to be (desert)" that only Israelis could have pulled that off, please don't.

[Velasco]

It's amazing the way people still defending the indefensible is willing to distort the crude reality, the ugliness of a military occupation that  lasts more than half a century. Consider allthe cruelty involved in this, the ignominy and the countless violations of basic human rights...

Come on! How anyone can argue about empty spaces, when the key is who controls the access roads? So you claim that everything is alright because not all the land outside the Palestinian ghettos is built settlement area inhabited by the Sons of Jacob. Maybe some fanatic ultranationalists in Israel and some of their supporters outside think that the rest of the world is stupid, Realize that nobody likes to be treated like an idiot. It's all so unpleasant and ugly...

[Silent Hunter]

Maps like this are ultimately a bit misleading as they ignore the fact a lot of that area is desert and more of it used to be in the past.

So if the areas that would change the West Bank from hundreds of isolated ghettos to even just tens of ghettos are just unimportant desert, why not improve the ability of Palestinians to freely move about by giving them at least Area B status?

Also, if you're suggesting by "more of it used to be (desert)" that only Israelis could have pulled that off, please don't.

I was referring to stuff like this:

via Imgflip Meme Generator

When the reality looks like this:

Satellite image

Anyway, I made no claim on moral rightness.

[DavidB.]

Looks like we're getting a new war.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Looks like we're getting a new war.

I hope it'll calm down. Not a good time, especially considering Hamas now has missiles with a range that can hit Jerusalem.

[DavidB.]

Looks like we're getting a new war.

I hope it'll calm down. Not a good time, especially considering Hamas now has missiles with a range that can hit Jerusalem.

I hope so too, but it doesn't look very positive. Appears as if the political wing of Hamas doesn't want a new war but the military wing does. Obviously Israel is going to hit back and hit back hard if this continues. I really hope and pray that a new ground operation won't be necessary. I hate it when so many young soldiers die, it is one of the most awful things in the world. Was in Israel all summer in 2014 and stayed at a place for lone soldiers who lost friends right there and right then. Truly left a deep impact.

[Hnv1]

Looks like we're getting a new war.

No we’re not. Hamas falls apart in the next war and Israel is forced to regain control over Gaza. No one wants that.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Widespread protests and a massive rally by the LGBTQ community yesterday. In Jerusalem, police arrested two peaceful protestors, one of whom I personally know. The picture of him, draped by a pride flag with his hands and even legs (wtf?) cuffed is something our foreign ministry will probably not want all the gay tourists from Europe and the US to see

[Hnv1]

Widespread protests and a massive rally by the LGBTQ community yesterday. In Jerusalem, police arrested two peaceful protestors, one of whom I personally know. The picture of him, draped by a pride flag with his hands and even legs (wtf?) cuffed is something our foreign ministry will probably not want all the gay tourists from Europe and the US to see

He’s a local contender for Meretz, I wasn’t that impressed by him on the news.

Anyway it’s good to have liberal protests, though I personally am against this human trade.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Widespread protests and a massive rally by the LGBTQ community yesterday. In Jerusalem, police arrested two peaceful protestors, one of whom I personally know. The picture of him, draped by a pride flag with his hands and even legs (wtf?) cuffed is something our foreign ministry will probably not want all the gay tourists from Europe and the US to see

He’s a local contender for Meretz, I wasn’t that impressed by him on the news.

Anyway it’s good to have liberal protests, though I personally am against this human trade.

Yeah, Eyal. He's a law student in the Hebrew University (which does beg the question of how he managed to be so involved in all this with the exams coming at us in full force, lol). He helped us out in draping the Har Hatzofim campus with pride flags etc, a really nice guy. He's clearly going for politics, what with all the Meretz MKs he's hanging around with, so I hope he has a successful career.

Anyway- Labour leader Avi Gabay nominated Hatnua leader Tzipi Livni as leader of the opposition, replacing Herzog (who will head the Jewish Agency). This is a move that will likely keep the ZU unified for the time being.

[DavidB.]

She will never f**k off, will she?

[Hnv1]

Widespread protests and a massive rally by the LGBTQ community yesterday. In Jerusalem, police arrested two peaceful protestors, one of whom I personally know. The picture of him, draped by a pride flag with his hands and even legs (wtf?) cuffed is something our foreign ministry will probably not want all the gay tourists from Europe and the US to see

He’s a local contender for Meretz, I wasn’t that impressed by him on the news.

Anyway it’s good to have liberal protests, though I personally am against this human trade.

Yeah, Eyal. He's a law student in the Hebrew University (which does beg the question of how he managed to be so involved in all this with the exams coming at us in full force, lol). He helped us out in draping the Har Hatzofim campus with pride flags etc, a really nice guy. He's clearly going for politics, what with all the Meretz MKs he's hanging around with, so I hope he has a successful career.

Anyway- Labour leader Avi Gabay nominated Hatnua leader Tzipi Livni as leader of the opposition, replacing Herzog (who will head the Jewish Agency). This is a move that will likely keep the ZU unified for the time being.

I was once a student at that law faculty. Let’s be honest the course in property law hadn’t changed since the 80’s.