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Author Topic: Israel general discussion  (Read 225457 times)
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CrabCake
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« on: September 09, 2014, 02:45:02 PM »

What happened to Hatnuah anyway? I quite liked Livni and it's sad to see her languishing near threshold level.
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CrabCake
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« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2015, 09:16:42 PM »

Ouch that last number is a stinger for Herzog.
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CrabCake
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« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2015, 02:32:32 PM »

Could JL provide external support to a Labour coalition, or is even that off the table?
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CrabCake
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« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2015, 03:04:14 PM »

Why do you hate Lapid? I thought he was just an inoffensive dullard?
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CrabCake
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« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2015, 07:56:29 AM »

Although Feiglin has taken this role of media boogeyman, his platform actually isn't that scary. It's more just ridiculous. He doesn't want to kill the Arabs, he just wants to pay them all to leave. Obviously that wouldn't work and it would never happen. It's so completely fantastical it's hardly worth getting upset over.

Nah, I dunno, IMO proposing that Israel be ethnically cleansed doesn't seem completely fantastical given the history of the area.

Will Bibi retire willingly, or will he try and stay forever until his health or scandal takes him?
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CrabCake
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« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2016, 06:55:26 PM »

Could the solution be something like Belgium? That is, a relatively powerless (con)federal assembly to oversee things and solve disputes; and two powerful legislatures to run both Palestine and Israel and their respective ethnic communities (+ one more for Jerusalem, like Brussels is currently run) in their own way.
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CrabCake
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« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2016, 02:42:04 AM »

So is this good news for Meretz?
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CrabCake
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« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2016, 05:56:08 AM »

Why is UTJ breaking up?
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CrabCake
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« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2016, 05:15:31 AM »

Wasn't Ya'alon supposed to form a party by now?
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CrabCake
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« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2017, 02:19:21 PM »

Sorry to be a pain, but what factions/ideologies/positions etc. do the labour candidates represent?
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CrabCake
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« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2017, 06:22:35 PM »

This has probably been asked a million times, but what's the difference between Shas and UTJ?
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CrabCake
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« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2018, 05:36:55 PM »

Who do Ethiopian Jews vote for?
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CrabCake
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« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2018, 03:52:33 PM »

Zehava Galon just dropped out of the Meretz leadership race.
I guess I'm endorsing Zandberg, but the chances I'm voting for Meretz in the election have just grown significantly lower.

@Vosem: This is an interesting post. Indeed, a more religious society doesn't mean one more friendly to the Haredim- we saw, for example, in the last mayoral race in the City of Beit Shemesh, that it was basically a proxy war between the Haredi population that invaded the city and claimed it as its own (represented by the incumbent, Mr. "There Are No Gays In Beit Shemesh") and a kippa-wearing candidate supported by both secular and religious voters who aren't Haredim- aka Datiim). The incumbent won, but in any case, we saw all stripes of Israeli society uniting against the Haredim. On the question of the draft, it makes sense that you'll see more support than, say, for public transportation in Shabbat- after all, the religious group ("religious zionism") are frevently pro-IDF. My points weren't backed by any statistics- I guess I'm just an optimist, but I believe that, with their powerful leaders dying off, the Haredi sect ultimately cannot survive in the modern world, kinda like primitive tribes in Brazil. There's simply no way to keep such a huge population enslaved to strict rules and restrictions on technology, sexuality and, for about a half of this population (women), their very independence as human beings, without that bubble bursting in the end.

EDIT: Looks like Ilan Gilon dropped out too?! All hail Queen Zandberg, I guess, but I have no idea what's happening and what deal they wrought.

EDIT2: Gilon dropped out because of health reasons. His voice seemed a bit slurred in the announcement video, but he didn't say the specific reason. I guess he felt free to drop out after he saw Zehava did.

A really interesting thing I found in the Pew data, which Pew didn't really talk about, was how on pretty much every religious issue the difference between old and young is smaller than the difference between old and young on self-identification. Israelis under 30 are 8% less Hiloni than Israelis over 50, but on no specific public policy issue are they more than 4% more religious (which tracks with Haredi going from 8% to 12% of society), and there are some where there's no difference or younger Israelis even take the less religious position (attitudes towards Haredim are the only ones that show the reverse pattern, but there's basically no generational difference on attitudes towards modern technology and women's rights). So it seems pretty reasonable to conclude that groups like Datiim/Masortim are slowly getting less observant (particularly on things like use of modern technology and women's rights) even as they become a larger part of society at the expense of Hilonim.

Which backs up my basic point that Jewish rituals, or affirmations of Judaism, are becoming more universal (there was something in there about younger self-identified Hilonim being more likely to light Shabbat candles than older Hilonim, for instance) without society's values really changing, which suggests that the non-Haredi parts of Israeli society are all slowly converging with each other.

Similar trends in the US where American youth are less likely to identify as atheist but more atheistic than any generation in the past. This is mostly due to a stigma that atheism is associated with anti-Muslim bigotry.

I'm sorry, I don't want to derail the thread, but I highly doubt this.
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CrabCake
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« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2018, 11:54:34 AM »

So what is the Israeli right's plan - if they do end up annexing the West Bank - about the many Arab residents? Give them full citizenship and risk a plurality (majority?) Arab electorate?
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CrabCake
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« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2018, 01:42:58 PM »

So what is the Israeli right's plan - if they do end up annexing the West Bank - about the many Arab residents? Give them full citizenship and risk a plurality (majority?) Arab electorate?
Likud don't have a clear plan (except that keeping the status-quo in place is also a choice, though not an explicit one...) and are very much divided. Ideology doesn't matter too much anymore in the Bibi machine: think Forza Italia. BY want Bennett's plan. All parties and individuals to the right of BY don't seem to think too much about this issue ("G-d will make sure everything will be alright"), and many of them probably want to expel the Palestinians, which, needless to say, is not realistic either. Nobody on the right, except for some idealists like Rivlin perhaps, wants to grant Palestinians full citizenship, and yet this is of course the most likely scenario in the event that a 1SS happens.

Do any leftists support a one-state plan along Rivlin's ideals?
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CrabCake
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« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2018, 03:55:44 PM »

This has probably been explained already, but who exactly does Orly Levy represent? Is she just Lieberman rebooted?
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CrabCake
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« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2018, 10:17:27 AM »

I think we shouldn't treat Israel with double standards, but that counts both ways: if the Netherlands started creating Dutch only towns that Turks or Jews couldn't live in or if they started imposing loyalty tests on academics we would have no problem saying that woild be, at the very least, extremely authoritarian, and possibly fascistic.

The question not posed, however, is to what extent American Jewry affects the U.S. government's attitude towards Israel. I am utterly unconvinced that it plays a significant role. Which is good: in my view, America currently supports Israel because it's in America's strategic interests. That's the way it should be.

I'm not sure about this. It seems to me that Israel, being (fairly or unfairly) disliked across the Muslim world and elsewhere, represents more of a liability to American interests rather than a strategic asset. The alliance hinders pacts with Muslim leaders in America's attempts to isolate its enemies China, Russia and Iran; it also damages America's ability to present itself as a neutral mediator in the peace accords.

I also do think the diaspora is more helpful than you think. Look at the UK - the diaspora (rightly) have made the issue of anti-zionism a big deal, and partially wounded Corbynism as a result. If the Zionist state divorces itself from the diaspora, why would they bother to stand up against claims that Israel is an apartheid state? Israel would no longer be a state intended to represent all Jews, and would just be a country where a lot of Jews happen to live.
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CrabCake
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« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2018, 06:40:23 AM »

To me, Gaza is much worse - definitely not supporting Hamas here, but it genuinely seems like hell on earth and I could certainly understand why people would feel very angry and militant if confined there.
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