Romney wants to cut Arts and Amtrak

[redcommander]

I'm not sure why so many Republicans hate creativity and transportation. How do you expect innovation without art being a major focus of society? Shouldn't the government be investing more in transportation to stimulate the economy?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-03/romney-says-he-wants-deep-spending-cuts-for-pbs-arts-endowment-programs.html

[NVGonzalez]

Oh boy... Good luck campaigning on that in Michigan and Ohio

[Wonkish1]

So I'm not sure why so many Republicans hate creativity and transportation. How do you expect innovation without art being a major focus of society? Shouldn't the government be investing more in transportation to stimulate the economy?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-03/romney-says-he-wants-deep-spending-cuts-for-pbs-arts-endowment-programs.html

How do you equate innovation and art?


Not if that transportation is a net loser as an investment.

[Wonkish1]

Oh boy... Good luck campaigning on that in Michigan and Ohio

How is that? I would think that people in Michigan for example would hate Amtrak because it detracts from vehicle purchasing.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Remember kids; nothing has worth if it doesn't turn a profit.

[Jacobtm]

Not if that transportation is a net loser as an investment.

That is the entire reason to fund transportation. It is a subsidy to the poor. If the government didn't pay for trains, people would have even fewer, less convenient, more expensive options for transportation.

Would you defund police, since they don't return a profit?

[NVGonzalez]

Oh boy... Good luck campaigning on that in Michigan and Ohio

How is that? I would think that people in Michigan for example would hate Amtrak because it detracts from vehicle purchasing.

Perhaps so but a lot of the public jobs in that state are on Amtrak, not to mention PA too. Romney will get it from the auto industry too though, as we all know the "let Detroit go bankrupt" thing will likely go back to haunt him.

[Wonkish1]

Not if that transportation is a net loser as an investment.

That is the entire reason to fund transportation. It is a subsidy to the poor. If the government didn't pay for trains, people would have even fewer, less convenient, more expensive options for transportation.

Would you defund police, since they don't return a profit?

How in the hell do you equate police and Amtrack??

[Lief 🗽]

Right. Look, the GOP, as they have made abundantly clear, want to plunder and rob the United States, parasitically shifting all the country's wealth, and leaving an impoverished, broken banana republic in their wake. They're very similar to 19th century imperialists, though the ingenious thing is, whereas the Belgians had to subjugate the Congo by force, the Republicans are tricking the natives into inviting them to come colonize them!

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Of course he wants to cut those things. He's a Republican.

[King]

Is the defense department profitable? 

[Link]

How do you expect innovation without art being a major focus of society?

How do you equate innovation and art?

Truly one of the most amazing things I've read on this forum.  Amazing but not surprising.  Hey Wonkish what financial services company do you work at?  I just want to make sure I don't read any of their research on innovative products coming to market.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Is the defense department profitable? 

it would be if I were running it    /jk

[King]

A big problem with Republicans and Democrats inability to find solutions on the Big 3 and taxes is that they start knicking at the foreskin to "compromise."

If anything, "government waste" is far less wasteful than things we hold dear like SS and Defense. The fact that these projects cost so little to satisfy those who use it proves them worth keeping.

Frankly, if I had my way our budget would be trillions in earmarks and nothing more. Earmarks are the most effective form of government spending. It gives congressmen personal investment in the outcomes of their legislation and as a result pushes for the project to push through.  Opposed to the secret check sent to the Pentagon or dumped into some subsidy pool advocated for by a lobbying group, the project is also centered around community improvement.  A trillion dollar earmark budget would provide excellent stimulus across this fair land from the safe Bridges of Rural Alaska to the ever-valuable Lobster Research Centers of Maine.

[TJ in Oregon]

Oh boy... Good luck campaigning on that in Michigan and Ohio

That won't matter in Ohio much. It already was a big issue in 2010 when we had planned to build a rail connection from Cleveland to Columbus that would take 4 hours and no one would ride. We actually turned down federal funding for it.

In my experience the Megabus is a much more likely option for people to take between cities than AMTRAK. Of course that's private so a lot of lefties might not like it too much. The Cleveland RTA is decent for local mass transit but that's about it around here at least.

[Link]

Is the defense department profitable? 

It is for some people...

[© tweed]

A big problem with Republicans and Democrats inability to find solutions on the Big 3 and taxes is that they start knicking at the foreskin to "compromise."

If anything, "government waste" is far less wasteful than things we hold dear like SS and Defense. The fact that these projects cost so little to satisfy those who use it proves them worth keeping.

Frankly, if I had my way our budget would be trillions in earmarks and nothing more. Earmarks are the most effective form of government spending. It gives congressmen personal investment in the outcomes of their legislation and as a result pushes for the project to push through.  Opposed to the secret check sent to the Pentagon or dumped into some subsidy pool advocated for by a lobbying group, the project is also centered around community improvement.  A trillion dollar earmark budget would provide excellent stimulus across this fair land from the safe Bridges of Rural Alaska to the ever-valuable Lobster Research Centers of Maine.

how is Social Security 'wasteful' at all?  the overhead is like 1% of total money handled.  contrasted with the private pension system it is enormously efficient.

[J. J.]

I enjoy using Amtrak, but I have to admit that it is not profitable.

Maybe it shouldn't be subsidized simply because a few folks enjoy it.

[Link]

In my experience the Megabus is a much more likely option for people to take between cities than AMTRAK. Of course that's private so a lot of lefties might not like it too much.

This is yet another Atlas Forum false choice.  Things do not have to be either all private or all public.  If something is private and works those of us on the left have no problem with it.  Buses are actually a very good form of mass transit.  The only problem is they still mostly use oil and they run on highways at speeds <70+mph.  The ultimate in rail is electric high speed rail coupled with a nuclear power source.  It has the potential of being much faster than a bus and it removes even more traffic from the freeways.  And it's zero emissions.

For long distance buses tend to have the lowest carbon footprint.  On shorter routes trains are better.

[TJ in Oregon]

In my experience the Megabus is a much more likely option for people to take between cities than AMTRAK. Of course that's private so a lot of lefties might not like it too much.

This is yet another Atlas Forum false choice.  Things do not have to be either all private or all public.  If something is private and works those of us on the left have no problem with it.  Buses are actually a very good form of mass transit.  The only problem is they still mostly use oil and they run on highways at speeds <70+mph.  The ultimate in rail is electric high speed rail coupled with a nuclear power source.  It has the potential of being much faster than a bus and it removes even more traffic from the freeways.  And it's zero emissions.

For long distance buses ten to have the lowest carbon footprint.  On shorter routes trains are better.

That's not what I said.

Did you read the next sentence?

You must be logged in to read this quote.

The question at hand was whether or not Romney cutting AMTRAK would hurt him in Ohio and Michigan. I'm just saying hardly anyone uses AMTRAK so I doubt it will make much difference.

[Torie]

Without really being that informed, my impression is that Amtrak is a mess, and should shut down except on highly populated routes, where the track needs to be substantially improved, even if one does not go to high speed trains. But given the airport mess, and the lack of airspace actually in the east when there are weather problems, in that area money I think needs to be spent on better tracks for  trains.

As to the arts, unless education related, there is a fairly weak case for government subsidies it seems to me. I am not persuaded that there are the kind of positive externalities that would justify it. But the amount of money is trivial, so who cares?  Actually the major subsidy for the arts is charitable contributions, either made annually, or via foundations exempt from the estate tax. That is where the real money is. Cutting back the deduction for charitable contributions/estate tax exempt foundations would do far more to cut down the flow of money into the arts.

[Link]

In my experience the Megabus is a much more likely option for people to take between cities than AMTRAK. Of course that's private so a lot of lefties might not like it too much.

This is yet another Atlas Forum false choice.  Things do not have to be either all private or all public.  If something is private and works those of us on the left have no problem with it.  Buses are actually a very good form of mass transit.  The only problem is they still mostly use oil and they run on highways at speeds <70+mph.  The ultimate in rail is electric high speed rail coupled with a nuclear power source.  It has the potential of being much faster than a bus and it removes even more traffic from the freeways.  And it's zero emissions.

For long distance buses ten to have the lowest carbon footprint.  On shorter routes trains are better.

That's not what I said.

Did you read the next sentence?

You must be logged in to read this quote.

The question at hand was whether or not Romney cutting AMTRAK would hurt him in Ohio and Michigan. I'm just saying hardly anyone uses AMTRAK so I doubt it will make much difference.

I understand that.  I was responding to this remark...

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Again it sets up another Atlas false choice.  Choose Republicans becuase if there is a private sector solution that works "a lot of lefties might not like it."  I just had to debunk that notion.

[Link]

But the amount of money is trivial, so who cares?

Exactly.

You only balance the long term budget by cutting defense, medical expenditures, social security, and income security.  Anyone dwelling on or fighting over cuts to other programs is just trying to get themselves elected/reelected.  It's as simple as that.

[TJ in Oregon]

Again it sets up another Atlas false choice.  Choose Republicans becuase if there is a private sector solution that works "a lot of lefties might not like it."  I just had to debunk that notion.

I never said all lefties would not like it, let alone all Democrats. There is a certain subset on the left that dislikes the idea of the private sector being successful. That's not exactly news and it's also not the main point of this discussion.

[DrScholl]

As if that will actually reduce the deficit by any meaningful amount.