Breaking: United Kingdom Ejected from the EU!

[ingemann]

As UK like Denmark have a out-op to Euro-membership, this won't touch UK. Whether the Euro is a good or bad idea isn't the what this statement is about. It tells Greece that they're welcome to leave the Euro, but it means leaving EU too.

Beside I fail to see what's insane with enforcing on countries the treaties they have signed and enjoy the benefit of.

[ingemann]

As UK like Denmark have a out-op to Euro-membership, this won't touch UK. Whether the Euro is a good or bad idea isn't the what this statement is about. It tells Greece that they're welcome to leave the Euro, but it means leaving EU too.

It needlessly increases the price of leaving the euro, which is very bad if you think that leaving the euro is the right policy. And it's a transparent attempt to blackmail Greece.

No it's telling them there are no such things as a free lunch, they can freely leave the Euro, it just mean leaving EU too. You know this is the problem with the debate about the Euro on this site, that people only see it from some fundamentalist free market ideological POV, rather than as it is meant as; an instrument to increase the integration of the common citizen in the different EU countries and forcing responsable governance on the member countries.

[ingemann]

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It's not 'enforcing' anything. The treaties don't foresee an exit from the euro zone, period. So by exiting the euro zone, Greece is already breaking the treaty. Kicking them out of the EU as well is unnecessary and needlessly damaging.

So, they are used as an example, and it couldn't happen to a people deserving it more. Let us not forget the reason Greece are in sh**t to the neck are because several Greek government have commited fraud toward EU, to say nothing about the whole institutionalisation of tax fraud from the common Greeks side.

[ingemann]

As UK like Denmark have a out-op to Euro-membership, this won't touch UK. Whether the Euro is a good or bad idea isn't the what this statement is about. It tells Greece that they're welcome to leave the Euro, but it means leaving EU too.

It needlessly increases the price of leaving the euro, which is very bad if you think that leaving the euro is the right policy. And it's a transparent attempt to blackmail Greece.

No it's telling them there are no such things as a free lunch, they can freely leave the Euro, it just mean leaving EU too. You know this is the problem with the debate about the Euro on this site, that people only see it from some fundamentalist free market ideological POV, rather than as it is meant as; an instrument to increase the integration of the common citizen in the different EU countries and forcing responsable governance on the member countries.

So now you've changed your tune from 'enforcing the treaty' to 'no such thing as a free lunch' -- except the entire euro project is a fatally flawed attempt at a 'free lunch'. The entire EU project is also a free lunch, only the difference is that it's not fatally flawed.

The problem with you Europeans that you're always contradicting yourselves. One moment you are talking about integration of the common citizens and forcing responsible governance, next moment you are talking about national sovereignty and opposing austerity and bailouts. Obviously I can't decide for you, but I can tell you which way you are currently headed, and it's a sovereign default without allowing the defaulting countries the escape valve of returning to a separate currency, which essentially means they'll have to undergo both a sovereign default and an internal devaluation, combined with comprehensive structural reform, imposed by the outside. Good luck with that.

Yes "I'm" mighty schizophrenic it's almost like "I'm" a transnational union with 500 million inhabitants who lack a common hive mind.

[ingemann]

You know this is the problem with the debate about the Euro on this site, that people only see it from some fundamentalist free market ideological POV, rather than as it is meant as; an instrument to increase the integration of the common citizen in the different EU countries and forcing responsable governance on the member countries.

Here's the problem: It did not work. In fact, it failed spectacularly.

You know there this funny concept we call time, the Euro is ten year old, this is the first major crisis, and whether it has worked or not is something we can talk about when the crisis is over, and the Euro has survived or not.
 Until now the Euro has resulted in a improvement in governance in every Euro-country but Greece, Italy has never had as low annual deficits as now, Spain and Portugal for all their problems has a stronger economy than before the Euro.

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No setting up cameras on every corner of the street is 1984ish, pushing a monetary union and common financial policies is federalism. EU is a voluntary association and have never hidden that its main goal was a united federated Europe. 1984 was a book about a totalitarian government which kept changing goalposters, spied on and abused its citizens. So let stop with our name dropping.

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As the agricultural subsidies is funded through EU, it has zero effect on the Eurozone, moreso USA show that you can have a large degree of regional regulation and still have a functional common currency.

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No the road to serfdom is a overrated book by a overrated Austrian economist, whose ideological heirs are the major cause of the economical meltdown. The EU "enormous" bureaucracy push around 1% of EU's GDP, may be one of the most slim bureaucracies this world has known.