Civil War in Syria

[politicus]

Syrian rebels behead a Catholic priest

And we are arming these people?

Not necessarily directly since its a very diverse group, but its impossible to avoid that some small arms will end up with the fanatics.

If a limited number of weapons end up with the Jihadists, while the wast majority end up with moderate groups it could still be worth it.

Lots of savagery at both side at the moment, but an Assad win aided by Hezbollah is an almost unbearable thought. A rebel victory gives some hope in a best case scenario.

[Spamage]

Syrian rebels behead a Catholic priest

And we are arming these people?

A few months ago I was reading an article on how some rebels have sacked, defiled, and stolen from countless Christian churches, but this is clearly much worse.

[Blue3]

Not all rebels are working together. There are different factions. And we're not arming all of them.

[they don't love you like i love you]

Yeah because it's not like the guy was a pro-Assad collaborationist or anything like that.

[Spamage]

Yeah because it's not like the guy was a pro-Assad collaborationist or anything like that.

"Catholic.org linked to the video and reported: 'Syrian terrorists have beheaded a Catholic priest who they accused of collaborating with the Assad regime. Those accusations have not yet been verified.'"

[CatoMinor]

Yeah because it's not like the guy was a pro-Assad collaborationist or anything like that.

WTF. You are seriously defending their actions based on the chance that he worked with the regime?

Is your  hate for catholics that strong?

[Ban my account ffs!]

Well, when you can live your life with a guaranteed assurance that you will not be beheaded, it's much easier to defend the practice.

Check your privilege, BRTD.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

WTF is wrong with you BRTD? I mean, seriously?

[MaxQue]

To his defence, if it was some random pro-Assad guy which was beheaded, we wouldn't even hear about it. People are acting as if being a priest make them immune to war events.

Right now, in wars, you are supporting B, you are a potential victim of A. Even if you are a priest. People are lacking a lot of realism here.

[they don't love you like i love you]

Yeah because it's not like the guy was a pro-Assad collaborationist or anything like that.

WTF. You are seriously defending their actions based on the chance that he worked with the regime?

Is your hate for catholics that strong?

It doesn't have anything to do with him being Catholic or not. Basically see Max's post. But I'm not going to believe the description on a video uploaded to YouTube by an account that posts only pro-Assad propaganda and is obviously a tool of the regime that rebels go around killing Catholic priests for no reason, and is mostly just being promoted now by right wing sources (I mean seriously, The Daily Mail) that love to parrot the Assad regime's propaganda because they prefer Assad to Obama.

And actually from a more neutral source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23138679

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Obviously if the guy was killed by jihadists and he was not an Assad collaborationist, it is a horrible crime (though not carried out by the people Obama is arming.) But we conclude that whoever it is on that video was indeed an Assad supporter.

[DC Al Fine]

So he was shot by Islamists during an attack on a monastery instead of beheaded? That makes me feel better

Given Assad's deplorable record and the rebels' questionable backgrounds, neutrality should be our policy here.

[AkSaber]

Given Assad's deplorable record and the rebels' questionable backgrounds, neutrality should be our policy here.

True. Choosing a lesser of two evils is still choosing evil.

And what sense does it make to force, at gunpoint, "democracy" on a nation who is not ready for it?

[they don't love you like i love you]

So he was shot by Islamists during an attack on a monastery instead of beheaded? That makes me feel better

Given Assad's deplorable record and the rebels' questionable backgrounds, neutrality should be our policy here.

I said above that this is obviously a horrible crime if he was not actually an Assad collaborationist. However the responsible group is Jubhat al-Nusra, not the Free Syrian Army, which Obama is arming.

Furthermore, let's look at the events timeline:

-Fighters in Syria capture and behead two members of Assad's Shabiha paramilitary.
-Jihadists not directly linked to the main Syrian rebel forces attack the monastery in late June killing the priest.
-A video is uploaded to YouTube by an account that only uploads pro-Assad propaganda videos and is obviously a mouthpiece of the regime claiming the priest is beheaded in it.
-All sorts of right wing sources run with it screaming about how the rebels are all barbarians and this is who Obama is arming.

It was an Assad propaganda ploy and you fell for it hook, line and sinker. This article here sums it all up: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/485700/20130702/syria-catholic-priest-beheading-video-murad.htm

Basically confirmation that the video occurred several months ago, the two individuals being executed were Assad loyalists and it was 120km from where the monastery was attacked.

[CatoMinor]

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http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/07/10/us-weapons-syria-shiites/2503953/

[Blue3]

Al Qaeda kills Free Syrian Army commander

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2013/07/20137127710849717.html

If anything, I think this should solidify our support for the FSA.

[Lief 🗽]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/12/us-syria-crisis-idUSBRE96B08A20130712

FSA (moderate rebels) declare war on Islamist rebels.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/12/us-syria-crisis-idUSBRE96B08A20130712

FSA (moderate rebels) declare war on Islamist rebels.

Not too surprising.  An Islamist government wouldn't be much better for them than an Assad win and unless they expel the Islamists from their midst they have no hope of ever getting enough support to topple Assad.  Of course the question now is can they do it or will the what had been a two and a half way war that is now a three way war become a two way war between Assad and the Islamists?

[Mopsus]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/12/us-syria-crisis-idUSBRE96B08A20130712

FSA (moderate rebels) declare war on Islamist rebels.

On a (tangentially) related note, how many historical examples are there of true three-way wars (that is, a war in which all three belligerents are at war with each other)?

[Mr. Morden]

The Kurds have also fought independently of the FSA and the Islamists, and in some cases have had skirmishes with them, though I think they mostly keep their distance.

[Cory]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/12/us-syria-crisis-idUSBRE96B08A20130712

FSA (moderate rebels) declare war on Islamist rebels.

It's like the Spanish Civil War kind of. With the loyalists and rebels trading places of course. Like the Nationalists, Assad leads a unified front consisting of most of the military and almost all of the elite/crack units. The Rebels have a fractured coalition that can hardly keep from fighting itself lat alone overcome the quality issues they face in comparison to the Assad troops.

The Rebels are like the Republicans in the Spanish Civil War. With the anarchists, communists, socialists/republicans and Trotskyites all fighting each other as well as the Fascists.

A similar comparison could be made to the Russian Civil War, with the Rebels being the divided Whites and the Bolsheviks the unified Assad Loyalists.

The side with better unification and organization typically wins these kind of Civil Wars.

[dead0man]

Maybe now people will have less qualms about giving aid to the FSA?



Also, Israel believed behind recent Syria strike

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[they don't love you like i love you]

Well now people can shut up about all rebels being Islamists or al-Qaeda.

[they don't love you like i love you]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/12/us-syria-crisis-idUSBRE96B08A20130712

FSA (moderate rebels) declare war on Islamist rebels.

On a (tangentially) related note, how many historical examples are there of true three-way wars (that is, a war in which all three belligerents are at war with each other)?

The most obvious example is Bosnia before the Bosniaks and Croats managed to forge a cease-fire agreement.

But as Morden pointed out this was already basically a three-way war, since the Kurdish fighters obviously don't like Assad, but don't really like the FSA either (read they don't like any non-Kurdish government controlling the whole country including their region.) Right now they have kind of an unofficial agreement with the FSA to leave them alone and let them fight Assad on their own terms, but I understand there have been a few skirmishes between the FSA and Kurds.

Africa has also had quite a few civil wars where the sides were basically government (corrupt, incompetent and quite thuggish) and rebels (far more thuggish, absolutely savage, and not incompetent in the sense that they were more capable and efficient at killing people than the government) and as a result lots of villages and regions set up their own militias all about protecting their own area and keeping both the government and rebels out. But they weren't really allied or a "side" per se.

[Cory]

I think this situation is more grey then people are making it out to be. As far as the Loyalists are concerned they are fighting for a secular Syria against the Islamic Fundamentalist dominated Rebels backed by foreign fighters who wish to transform Syria into the next Afghanistan. I hope nobody is naive enough to thing the "NTC" folks have any real sway in the Rebel movement on the ground. This war has taken on a new dimension. It's not Assad vs The People anymore. It's Secular Urban/Shia vs Islamic Conservative Rural Sunnis.

I can't help but think that if I were in Syria I would support the Loyalists.

[they don't love you like i love you]

That's flat out false. By all estimates Islamists make up no more than 20% of rebel forces. Plus the main rebels have been killing more Islamists than Assad's forces lately. I still hold all Assad supporters to be bloodthirsty thugs.