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Author Topic: Civil War in Syria  (Read 149506 times)
DC Al Fine
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« Reply #500 on: July 01, 2013, 04:24:11 pm »

Syrian rebels behead a Catholic priest

And we are arming these people?
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politicus
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« Reply #501 on: July 01, 2013, 04:36:47 pm »

Syrian rebels behead a Catholic priest

And we are arming these people?

Not necessarily directly since its a very diverse group, but its impossible to avoid that some small arms will end up with the fanatics.

If a limited number of weapons end up with the Jihadists, while the wast majority end up with moderate groups it could still be worth it.

Lots of savagery at both side at the moment, but an Assad win aided by Hezbollah is an almost unbearable thought. A rebel victory gives some hope in a best case scenario.
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Spamage
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« Reply #502 on: July 01, 2013, 04:40:56 pm »

Syrian rebels behead a Catholic priest

And we are arming these people?

A few months ago I was reading an article on how some rebels have sacked, defiled, and stolen from countless Christian churches, but this is clearly much worse.
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Blue3
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« Reply #503 on: July 01, 2013, 07:12:08 pm »

Not all rebels are working together. There are different factions. And we're not arming all of them.
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The Conflict
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« Reply #504 on: July 02, 2013, 12:13:57 am »

Yeah because it's not like the guy was a pro-Assad collaborationist or anything like that. Roll Eyes
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Spamage
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« Reply #505 on: July 02, 2013, 12:46:32 am »

Yeah because it's not like the guy was a pro-Assad collaborationist or anything like that. Roll Eyes

"Catholic.org linked to the video and reported: 'Syrian terrorists have beheaded a Catholic priest who they accused of collaborating with the Assad regime. Those accusations have not yet been verified.'"
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Jbrase
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« Reply #506 on: July 02, 2013, 01:02:36 am »

Yeah because it's not like the guy was a pro-Assad collaborationist or anything like that. Roll Eyes

WTF. You are seriously defending their actions based on the chance that he worked with the regime?

Is your  hate for catholics that strong?
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Snowguy716
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« Reply #507 on: July 02, 2013, 02:32:41 am »

Well, when you can live your life with a guaranteed assurance that you will not be beheaded, it's much easier to defend the practice.

Check your privilege, BRTD.
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« Reply #508 on: July 02, 2013, 03:03:50 am »

WTF is wrong with you BRTD? I mean, seriously?
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« Reply #509 on: July 02, 2013, 03:21:46 am »

To his defence, if it was some random pro-Assad guy which was beheaded, we wouldn't even hear about it. People are acting as if being a priest make them immune to war events.

Right now, in wars, you are supporting B, you are a potential victim of A. Even if you are a priest. People are lacking a lot of realism here.
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The Conflict
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« Reply #510 on: July 02, 2013, 10:00:15 am »

Yeah because it's not like the guy was a pro-Assad collaborationist or anything like that. Roll Eyes

WTF. You are seriously defending their actions based on the chance that he worked with the regime?

Is your hate for catholics that strong?

It doesn't have anything to do with him being Catholic or not. Basically see Max's post. But I'm not going to believe the description on a video uploaded to YouTube by an account that posts only pro-Assad propaganda and is obviously a tool of the regime that rebels go around killing Catholic priests for no reason, and is mostly just being promoted now by right wing sources (I mean seriously, The Daily Mail) that love to parrot the Assad regime's propaganda because they prefer Assad to Obama.

And actually from a more neutral source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23138679

Quote
The video's title referred to the killing of a priest and a bishop, but none of the victims can be identified and none of those featured in the video refer to such an event.

After analysing the footage, local activists and Human Rights Watch said it was most likely filmed in a different location several months before Fr Murad was killed.

Instead, he "died when he was shot inside his church" in Ghassaniya, three separate local sources told the Daily Telegraph newspaper.

The Custody of the Holy Land, a Franciscan order which is the official custodian of religious sites in the Middle East, had also issued a statement two days after Fr Murad's death saying Islamists shot him.

"Islamists attacked the monastery, ransacking it and destroying everything," it said. "When Father Francois tried to resist, defending the nuns, rebels shot him."

Obviously if the guy was killed by jihadists and he was not an Assad collaborationist, it is a horrible crime (though not carried out by the people Obama is arming.) But we conclude that whoever it is on that video was indeed an Assad supporter.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #511 on: July 02, 2013, 10:08:34 am »

So he was shot by Islamists during an attack on a monastery instead of beheaded? That makes me feel better Roll Eyes

Given Assad's deplorable record and the rebels' questionable backgrounds, neutrality should be our policy here.
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« Reply #512 on: July 02, 2013, 11:42:50 pm »

Given Assad's deplorable record and the rebels' questionable backgrounds, neutrality should be our policy here.

True. Choosing a lesser of two evils is still choosing evil.

And what sense does it make to force, at gunpoint, "democracy" on a nation who is not ready for it?
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« Reply #513 on: July 03, 2013, 12:07:37 am »

So he was shot by Islamists during an attack on a monastery instead of beheaded? That makes me feel better Roll Eyes

Given Assad's deplorable record and the rebels' questionable backgrounds, neutrality should be our policy here.

I said above that this is obviously a horrible crime if he was not actually an Assad collaborationist. However the responsible group is Jubhat al-Nusra, not the Free Syrian Army, which Obama is arming.

Furthermore, let's look at the events timeline:

-Fighters in Syria capture and behead two members of Assad's Shabiha paramilitary.
-Jihadists not directly linked to the main Syrian rebel forces attack the monastery in late June killing the priest.
-A video is uploaded to YouTube by an account that only uploads pro-Assad propaganda videos and is obviously a mouthpiece of the regime claiming the priest is beheaded in it.
-All sorts of right wing sources run with it screaming about how the rebels are all barbarians and this is who Obama is arming.

It was an Assad propaganda ploy and you fell for it hook, line and sinker. This article here sums it all up: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/485700/20130702/syria-catholic-priest-beheading-video-murad.htm

Basically confirmation that the video occurred several months ago, the two individuals being executed were Assad loyalists and it was 120km from where the monastery was attacked.
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« Reply #514 on: July 11, 2013, 02:40:24 pm »

Quote
U.S. and Western weapons have been reaching Iranian-backed Shiite militias fighting to keep Bashar Assad's forces in power in Syria.

Analysts say it's unclear if the weapons were captured, stolen or bought on the black market in Syria, Turkey, Iraq or Libya. Propaganda photographs from Shiite militias posted on dozens of websites and Facebook pages show the weapons were acquired in new condition, said Phillip Smyth, an analyst for Jihadology.net, a site affiliated with the Washington Institute for Near East Policy.

Many of the weapons are things the militias "shouldn't really have their hands on," Smyth said. Iranians love to show "they have weapons and systems that are very close to the Americans."

The ability of Assad's allies to obtain U.S. weapons is one of many reasons the United States should not supply Syrian rebels with weapons, which President Obama said he would start to do last month, said Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, R-Fla., former chairwoman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/07/10/us-weapons-syria-shiites/2503953/
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Blue3
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« Reply #515 on: July 12, 2013, 08:40:27 am »

Al Qaeda kills Free Syrian Army commander

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2013/07/20137127710849717.html

If anything, I think this should solidify our support for the FSA.
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« Reply #516 on: July 12, 2013, 07:23:33 pm »

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/12/us-syria-crisis-idUSBRE96B08A20130712

FSA (moderate rebels) declare war on Islamist rebels.
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Ernest
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« Reply #517 on: July 12, 2013, 07:41:04 pm »

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/12/us-syria-crisis-idUSBRE96B08A20130712

FSA (moderate rebels) declare war on Islamist rebels.

Not too surprising.  An Islamist government wouldn't be much better for them than an Assad win and unless they expel the Islamists from their midst they have no hope of ever getting enough support to topple Assad.  Of course the question now is can they do it or will the what had been a two and a half way war that is now a three way war become a two way war between Assad and the Islamists?
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Mopolis
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« Reply #518 on: July 12, 2013, 08:37:21 pm »

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/12/us-syria-crisis-idUSBRE96B08A20130712

FSA (moderate rebels) declare war on Islamist rebels.
On a (tangentially) related note, how many historical examples are there of true three-way wars (that is, a war in which all three belligerents are at war with each other)?
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« Reply #519 on: July 12, 2013, 09:18:20 pm »

The Kurds have also fought independently of the FSA and the Islamists, and in some cases have had skirmishes with them, though I think they mostly keep their distance.
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« Reply #520 on: July 13, 2013, 12:28:46 am »

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/12/us-syria-crisis-idUSBRE96B08A20130712

FSA (moderate rebels) declare war on Islamist rebels.

It's like the Spanish Civil War kind of. With the loyalists and rebels trading places of course. Like the Nationalists, Assad leads a unified front consisting of most of the military and almost all of the elite/crack units. The Rebels have a fractured coalition that can hardly keep from fighting itself lat alone overcome the quality issues they face in comparison to the Assad troops.

The Rebels are like the Republicans in the Spanish Civil War. With the anarchists, communists, socialists/republicans and Trotskyites all fighting each other as well as the Fascists.

A similar comparison could be made to the Russian Civil War, with the Rebels being the divided Whites and the Bolsheviks the unified Assad Loyalists.

The side with better unification and organization typically wins these kind of Civil Wars.
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« Reply #521 on: July 13, 2013, 10:07:32 am »

Maybe now people will have less qualms about giving aid to the FSA?



Also, Israel believed behind recent Syria strike
Quote
A series of explosions on July 5 at a critical Syrian port was the result of airstrikes by Israeli warplanes, according to multiple U.S. officials.

Regional media widely reported the predawn explosions at Latakia, but no one had officially claimed responsibility.

Three U.S. officials told CNN the target of the airstrikes were Russian-made Yakhont anti-ship missiles that Israel believes posed a threat to its naval forces.

The officials declined to be named because of the sensitive nature of the information.


So far, the Israeli government has also declined to comment to CNN.

Israel's defense minister Moshe Yaalon denied involvement, according to one Israeli news site.

"It has been a long time that we are not intervening in Syria's bloody war. Red lines were presented and we maintain them," said Yaalon, according to YNet News. "There is an explosion here or an attack there, somewhere in the Middle East, most of the time they accuse us."

Israeli and U.S. intelligence are also watching closely for additional shipments of Russian arms to Syria from Russian warships located off the coast.

The United States believes some supplies, including ammunition and small arms, have been unloaded in recent weeks. So far, there has been no indication of heavy weapons or helicopters that the Syrian regime of Bashar al-Assad anticipates.

CNN has reported at least three previous Israeli airstrikes against Syrian targets in recent months in instances where it believed weapons were being transferred to Iranian backed Hezbollah fighters in Lebanon that could also threaten Israel.
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« Reply #522 on: July 13, 2013, 11:37:19 am »

Well now people can shut up about all rebels being Islamists or al-Qaeda.
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« Reply #523 on: July 13, 2013, 10:19:53 pm »

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/12/us-syria-crisis-idUSBRE96B08A20130712

FSA (moderate rebels) declare war on Islamist rebels.
On a (tangentially) related note, how many historical examples are there of true three-way wars (that is, a war in which all three belligerents are at war with each other)?

The most obvious example is Bosnia before the Bosniaks and Croats managed to forge a cease-fire agreement.

But as Morden pointed out this was already basically a three-way war, since the Kurdish fighters obviously don't like Assad, but don't really like the FSA either (read they don't like any non-Kurdish government controlling the whole country including their region.) Right now they have kind of an unofficial agreement with the FSA to leave them alone and let them fight Assad on their own terms, but I understand there have been a few skirmishes between the FSA and Kurds.

Africa has also had quite a few civil wars where the sides were basically government (corrupt, incompetent and quite thuggish) and rebels (far more thuggish, absolutely savage, and not incompetent in the sense that they were more capable and efficient at killing people than the government) and as a result lots of villages and regions set up their own militias all about protecting their own area and keeping both the government and rebels out. But they weren't really allied or a "side" per se.
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« Reply #524 on: July 29, 2013, 12:40:08 am »

I think this situation is more grey then people are making it out to be. As far as the Loyalists are concerned they are fighting for a secular Syria against the Islamic Fundamentalist dominated Rebels backed by foreign fighters who wish to transform Syria into the next Afghanistan. I hope nobody is naive enough to thing the "NTC" folks have any real sway in the Rebel movement on the ground. This war has taken on a new dimension. It's not Assad vs The People anymore. It's Secular Urban/Shia vs Islamic Conservative Rural Sunnis.

I can't help but think that if I were in Syria I would support the Loyalists.
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