Scott Walker recall goes live

[AmericanNation]

Milwaukee Police and Fire Unions have endorsed Walker. 
Private sector Union members are a little hacked off at Democrats for blocking a hugely popular 'mining' bill that would instantly create thousands of jobs and long term economic wealth in a depressed area of the state (as well as Milwaukee being the mining equipment capitol of the world).  The shameful block of the bill was based on....   democrats blind hate and public unions opposition. 

Falk has almost no chance.
Barrett is the do nothing type of democrat, which tends to be better than the other type.  He may win the primary despite the unions buying Falk.  Which would be another defeat for the unions before the recall election.  Barrett is likely to lose, but even as governor he won't do anything to reverse Walkers actions because they work so well.  Barrett used all of the Walker tools from act 10 in his City budget.  Barrett is a Property tax raiser and Walker is a guy who delivered a Freeze to cut in a tough climate to do so. 

asking a public employee to contribute a small amount to a lavish pension that they GET TO COLLECT FROM at age 55 isn't much to ask.  Millionaire public employees protesting as if they were going to starve to death was an amazing sight.             

[AmericanNation]

They only turned in about 800some thousand signatures.  They counted blank lines on a petition page in the million number.  Additionally 200k or more have been identified as probably bogus signatures.  They may have had the 550k they needed.  Hard to find and challenge the bogus ones in the two weeks granted to do so.  Doyle Appointees on the GAB have made consistent ridiculous rulings anyway.  Walker chose to avoid that battle and will instead embarrass democrats nationally.             

[AmericanNation]

wow!,

 not paying anything toward your pension = "paying for their pension themselves after all"

and

"deferred compensation" = I get paid after I stop working via "Magic"

No, "deferred compensation", meaning "I'll take some of my salary now, and put some of it into a pension fund instead."

OK I read your link, "Wisconsin taxpayers spent about $12.6 billion on public employee pensions while public employees contributed only $55.4 million." I think that comes out to 0.4%...  wow and 99.6% magically appears. 

[AmericanNation]

Gass3268, So outside of the statehouse not one extremist? ? ?

How about the majority of people in Ozaukee, Waukesha and Washington Counties?

You do realize modest adjustments to balance budgets and improve the economy isn't exactly a definition of extreme right?

Yeah but taking away a right is a definition of extremism.

Sigh, Collective Bargaining is not a right, it is a privilege.  Walker gave public employees the privilege to opt out of these belligerent Unions.  I know that expansion of freedom is scary to you, but it is not extremist.  Thinking you have a right from God to Bargain against the taxpayers of Wisconsin IS extremist.

Ozaukee, Waukesha and Washington Counties are the most productive, highest tax-paying people in the state, what is extreme about them?      

I guess I'm with Ronald Reagan on this one:
"These are the values inspiring those brave workers in Poland. The values that have inspired other dissidents under Communist domination.  They remind us that where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.  They remind us that freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction.  You and I must protect and preserve freedom here or it will not be passed on to our children.  Today the workers in Poland are showing a new generation not how high is the price of freedom but how much it is worth that price."

Also:

"I happen to be the only president of a union ever to be a candidate for President of the United States.
As president of my union -- the Screen Actors Guild -- I spent many hours with the late George Meany, whose love of this country and whose belief in a strong defense against all totalitarians is one of labor’s greatest legacies. "

http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/reference/9.1.80.html

It's a measure of today's Republican party that it now views defending something Ronald Reagan saw as a bulwark against totalitarianism makes you in to a leftist extremist.

Reagan was probably talking about private sector Unions.  He ordered the air traffic controllers back to work and desertified that Union as I recall.  

I guess I'm with FDR on this one:
"The process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service," Roosevelt wrote in 1937 to the National Federation of Federal Employees. Yes, public workers may demand fair treatment, wrote Roosevelt. But, he wrote, "I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place" in the public sector. "A strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent on their part to prevent or obstruct the operations of Government."
And the last prominent American Socialist
Frank Zeidler, Milwaukee's mayor in the 1950s and the last card-carrying Socialist to head a major U.S. city, supported labor. But in 1969, the progressive icon wrote that the rise of unions in government work put a competing power in charge of public business next to elected officials. Government unions "can mean considerable loss of control over the budget, and hence over tax rates," he warned.  There was "a revolutionary principle rather quietly at work in American government," he wrote.

I think I heard that 100 decibel principle at work in the Wisconsin capitol last year.  It sounded something like "I will not pay a dime toward my million dollar pension!!!"

Walker's modest shift is to try securing necessary government at a better price. The public unions, whose model depends on making government labor as costly as taxpayers will bear, object.  

[AmericanNation]

Gass3268, So outside of the statehouse not one extremist? ? ?

How about the majority of people in Ozaukee, Waukesha and Washington Counties?

You do realize modest adjustments to balance budgets and improve the economy isn't exactly a definition of extreme right?

Yeah but taking away a right is a definition of extremism.

Sigh, Collective Bargaining is not a right, it is a privilege.  Walker gave public employees the privilege to opt out of these belligerent Unions.  I know that expansion of freedom is scary to you, but it is not extremist.  Thinking you have a right from God to Bargain against the taxpayers of Wisconsin IS extremist.

Ozaukee, Waukesha and Washington Counties are the most productive, highest tax-paying people in the state, what is extreme about them?      

I guess I'm with Ronald Reagan on this one:
"These are the values inspiring those brave workers in Poland. The values that have inspired other dissidents under Communist domination.  They remind us that where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.  They remind us that freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction.  You and I must protect and preserve freedom here or it will not be passed on to our children.  Today the workers in Poland are showing a new generation not how high is the price of freedom but how much it is worth that price."

Also:

"I happen to be the only president of a union ever to be a candidate for President of the United States.
As president of my union -- the Screen Actors Guild -- I spent many hours with the late George Meany, whose love of this country and whose belief in a strong defense against all totalitarians is one of labor’s greatest legacies. "

http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/reference/9.1.80.html

It's a measure of today's Republican party that it now views defending something Ronald Reagan saw as a bulwark against totalitarianism makes you in to a leftist extremist.

Reagan was probably talking about private sector Unions.  He ordered the air traffic controllers back to work and desertified that Union as I recall.  

I guess I'm with FDR on this one:
"The process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service," Roosevelt wrote in 1937 to the National Federation of Federal Employees. Yes, public workers may demand fair treatment, wrote Roosevelt. But, he wrote, "I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place" in the public sector. "A strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent on their part to prevent or obstruct the operations of Government."
And the last prominent American Socialist
Frank Zeidler, Milwaukee's mayor in the 1950s and the last card-carrying Socialist to head a major U.S. city, supported labor. But in 1969, the progressive icon wrote that the rise of unions in government work put a competing power in charge of public business next to elected officials. Government unions "can mean considerable loss of control over the budget, and hence over tax rates," he warned.  There was "a revolutionary principle rather quietly at work in American government," he wrote.

I think I heard that 100 decibel principle at work in the Wisconsin capitol last year.  It sounded something like "I will not pay a dime toward my million dollar pension!!!"

Walker's modest shift is to try securing necessary government at a better price. The public unions, whose model depends on making government labor as costly as taxpayers will bear, object.  

[AmericanNation]

wow!,

 not paying anything toward your pension = "paying for their pension themselves after all"

and

"deferred compensation" = I get paid after I stop working via "Magic"

No, "deferred compensation", meaning "I'll take some of my salary now, and put some of it into a pension fund instead."

OK I read your link, "From Governor Walker’s standpoint, however, it’s an issue of equity. From 2000 to 2009, the governor says, Wisconsin taxpayers spent about $12.6 billion on public employee pensions while public employees contributed only $55.4 million.

" I think that comes out to 0.4%...  wow and 99.6% magically appears. 

Fixed your quote from the stateline.org piece. From the Forbes (Forbes, mind you!) piece, citing a piece on tax.com:

"Gov. Scott Walker says he wants state workers covered by collective bargaining agreements to “contribute more” to their pension and health insurance plans. Accepting Gov. Walker’ s assertions as fact, and failing to check, creates the impression that somehow the workers are getting something extra, a gift from taxpayers. They are not. Out of every dollar that funds Wisconsin’ s pension and health insurance plans for state workers, 100 cents comes from the state workers."

Where did you find that? and how would it be possible for the employees to be "fully funding 100 %" and the state simultaneously paying 99.6% AND the new contribution from the walker reforms covers 50% ? ? ? ? 

[AmericanNation]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/rosiegray/walker-challenger-tom-barrett-sought-to-weaken-uni
Walker Challenger Tom Barrett Sought To Weaken Unions In Milwaukee
In a proposal obtained by BuzzFeed, the city of Milwaukee looked to end collective bargaining on overtime hours and pensions. “Collective bargaining at work,” says Barrett spokesman.

LOL! ! !, WOW. 

[AmericanNation]

I moved the stuff over from a different thread. 

[AmericanNation]

Additionally 200k or more have been identified as probably bogus signatures.

O RLY?

Anyway, Dems seem to be setting up a circular firing squad here...

Yea, a volunteer army has been examining the petitions on an online database.  Scot Walker signed it 50 times, daffy duck, mickey mouse, etc.  MANY people signed more than once, some weren't filled out properly, some forgery's were discovered... you get the picture.  They probably got enough signatures, but a failure rate approaching 40% is a little troubling.   

[AmericanNation]

Additionally 200k or more have been identified as probably bogus signatures.

O RLY?

Anyway, Dems seem to be setting up a circular firing squad here...

Yea, a volunteer army has been examining the petitions on an online database.  Scot Walker signed it 50 times, daffy duck, mickey mouse, etc.  MANY people signed more than once, some weren't filled out properly, some forgery's were discovered... you get the picture.  They probably got enough signatures, but a failure rate approaching 40% is a little troubling.   

Do you have a link to a source that says 200,000 signatures are "probably bogus"?

Not to put too fine a point to it, but it doesn't cost anything for random Republicans to make an outrageous, unsupported claim to undermine the legitimacy of the elections.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:DP_SjjIO6P4J:maciverinstitute.com/2012/03/recall-picture-does-not-clear-up-with-time/+Verify+the+Recall+have+identified+more+than+228000&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
I can't quickly find a detailed report, but you get the idea

[AmericanNation]

Walker reforms has led to teacher HIRE's.  Teacher Union 'ram job' contract extensions has led to layoffs.  So, proof that Walker is better for education will "get worse" for him.  OK guy.     

[AmericanNation]

why would districts flush with cash start doing those things?  Walker districts are free to trim more fat from the budgets and some of the contracts of the Union ram job districts will expire and they will have tools....  so, yea you aren't making any sense with your point.  Maybe Union controlled boards will screw over their own members and the kids, but that makes Walker look good not bad.   

[AmericanNation]

What would you call an extra BILLION dollars? ?  Every week local newspapers report the local school districts (all over the state) save 1-10 million each just from stopping the WEA trust insurance racket.  What would you call WEAC suppressing it's own survey because it makes the reforms look so favorable? ? Facts and reality is where I'm living.  The state has LESS money and MORE money is in the classroom.  When is the last time that happened?  Answer: never.   Amazing what you can do when you cut a little fat.       

[AmericanNation]

What would you call an extra BILLION dollars? ?  Every week local newspapers report the local school districts (all over the state) save 1-10 million each just from stopping the WEA trust insurance racket.  What would you call WEAC suppressing it's own survey because it makes the reforms look so favorable? ? Facts and reality is where I'm living.  The state has LESS money and MORE money is in the classroom.  When is the last time that happened?  Answer: never.   Amazing what you can do when you cut a little fat.       

During winter when the buildings got cold, schools all over the state tossed bundles of hundred dollar bills in the furnace to warm it up.  I would call an extra billion dollars a figment of your imagination.  Facts and reality?  Yes school districts have downsized their health plans to cheaper plans and it has saved them some money. 
Walkers cuts were somewhere around $800 million.  You honestly believe that school districts have saved over $1.8 Billion from health insurance savings?

1)Act 10 has saved over a billion in less than a year.

2) It isn't in effect in every district.  Particularly the largest districts which have the potential for massive savings. 

3) I'm not sure yet how much of the billion is simply from avoiding the corrupt union-insurance company's price gouging, but it might be 50% or more.       

[AmericanNation]

Why does the great union buster have to criss-cross the country on his fundraising trips?

Has to? I don't think he has to, but rather given his rock star status many people outside Wisconsin want to show support for a champion like him. It's certainly prudent to do so for Scott Walker.

Prudent, yes, but does him not spending his time within the state he's ostensibly governing indicate more concern for Wisconsin or more concern for Scott Walker?

It is really odd, but this has become a quasi-national race.  Walker is running against National Unions and the Obama campaign operation...  So, fundraising nation wide is a logical reaction to a Chicago-WashingtonD.C. campaign against you. 

Also, his opponents have the advantage of not needing to "raise" funds for:
1) the lefty media coverage Walker has to overcome
2) SuperPAC (Union) ad campaigns against Walker

The word is the Unions are dumping a few million into ad buys for Falk this last week before the primary.  It will be fascinating to see how much the needle moves on that. 

I am still amazed that these two clowns are the best the dems can muster.  The 47% warriors   
 

[AmericanNation]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Walker continues to display his grassroots appeal among ordinary Wisconsin residents.

Umm, yea he does.  Typically you shouldn't criticize the guy with the most grassroots support.  Ignoring the fact that he dominates in that category makes you look silly. 

...Ask a question to yourself like:
"Who has the most grassroots support?"
...Answer:
"Scott Walker"
...Think a thought:
"O, ok I won't pretend that he is weak in that area then."

...I'm trying to think of a single democrat running for state wide office with more grassroots support than Walker...  I don't think there is one. 

[AmericanNation]

Way to miss the point, hoss.

What is your point?  The guy needs money to overcome huge institutions and special interests (and their hordes of money) and individuals are willing to write him a check (Most of them in Wisconsin)...  A few of the biggest republican donors in the country have the race on their radar, shocker!  Maybe he shouldn't accept any money and campaign around the state ridding on a horse.     

[AmericanNation]

I suspect the margin will end up rather similar to 2010. I think the state is pretty evenly divided on Walker's actions but there's a portion of the population out there (5-10%) that opposes recalls out of principle and that'll carry the day for Walker.

That's possible.  It's too bad that Wisconsin doesn't let voters recall legislation instead of politicians like Ohio does, because then the Democrats would have better chances of getting what they want.

Maybe, but that wouldn't make sense considering democrats have basically abandoned the anti act 10 message because they lose on it.  Barrett didn't even mention it last night.  They want to run on jobs or women apparently...  this recall is so stupid.     

[AmericanNation]

I suspect the margin will end up rather similar to 2010. I think the state is pretty evenly divided on Walker's actions but there's a portion of the population out there (5-10%) that opposes recalls out of principle and that'll carry the day for Walker.

That's possible.  It's too bad that Wisconsin doesn't let voters recall legislation instead of politicians like Ohio does, because then the Democrats would have better chances of getting what they want.

Maybe, but that wouldn't make sense considering democrats have basically abandoned the anti act 10 message because they lose on it.  Barrett didn't even mention it last night.  They want to run on jobs or women apparently...  this recall is so stupid.    

The Democrats do seem to be making the same mistake they did with the recalls by not making unions the central issue in spite of the fact that most Wisconsin voters support collective bargaining rights.  It all depends on how they go about the issue from now until the election.

If you include the word "rights" in anything it is generally supported.  Collective Bargaining is not a right by definition.  Most Wisconsin voters support the act 10 reforms because they stopped some abused and destructive privileges that never should have been granted.  

Last night, Barrett said the recall was about jobs...  hard to make up a more absurd lie.  

Fun Stuff
Approximately 735,798 Republicans turned out to vote while only 541,018 Democrats turned out to vote.  Many republicans voted for the weaker democrat union endorsed Falk instead of Walker. 

 http://www.wigderson.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Recall-Primary-2012.jpg
  

  

[AmericanNation]

Wisconsin Recall Election: Walker 50%, Barrett 45%

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2012/election_2012_governor_elections/wisconsin/wisconsin_recall_election_walker_50_barrett_45

Given how badly dems were crushed in turnout Tuesday, I actually think that indicates what will happen June 5th.  Incomprehensible to political junkies, but most democrats do NOT know (anymore) why Walker is being recalled.  The reforms work!  Let this be a lesson that this is what happens when you let ONE special interest group (non police/fire government employees) control your party.  Most Wisdems did not want this, but they were powerless to stop it and will suffer by association. 

That large number of people that correctly understand that this is an abuse of the recall process goes a long way toward Walker winning the few remaining undecideds and suppresses dem turnout.  Walker will probably win every region of the state except the Dane county region(south-central), The La Crosse region will be close.  Walker will win South-East Wisconsin(were the population is), but an interesting question is: will Walker get over 40% in Milwaukee county?  if he does it is almost impossible for a democrat to win a statewide election.           

When was the last time a (mid-sized)state budget became a national issue?     

[AmericanNation]

Translation:
"I prefer a mild - practical approach that I know will work in solving the state's problems."

1) The democrats and the Unions are divided, so apparently Walker is a genius.
 
2) Boy does Diane Hendricks look different than I thought she did. 

[AmericanNation]

If he wins, it will certainly be a major victory for those who wish to return to the good old days of the 1800's.

GDP growth above 2.5% ? ?  unemployment under 8% ? ?

[AmericanNation]

If he wins, it will certainly be a major victory for those who wish to return to the good old days of the 1800's.

GDP growth above 2.5% ? ?  unemployment under 8% ? ?

Slavery ? ? Imperialism ? ?

Yes if Scott Walker is re-elected to his first term as governor of Wisconsin, than SLAVERY will be re-instituted and  Wisconsin will exploit it's overseas IMPERIAL colonies. 

Wait, Slavery has never been instituted in Wisconsin and we have no colonies. 

[AmericanNation]

apparently MoveOn is reporting that the DNC is pulling out of the recall race. 

this is all I can find on their goofy site:
 http://www.signon.org/sign/democratic-national-committe?source=homepage?rc=homepage.sidebar

[AmericanNation]

Depending on the results (for Republicans, very encouraging), I think we may be near to finding out who will be Mitt Romney's running-mate....    

Walker becoming president of US is a very scary thought.

I am legitimately concerned that Biden is senile.  Walker isn't going to be VP, but Biden is actually scary.