How can we Help the Most?
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  How can we Help the Most?
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Poll
Question: The USA would help the most by...
#1
Doing what we did in Iraq
 
#2
Footing a vast majority of the bill for the Asia Disaster
 
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 12

Author Topic: How can we Help the Most?  (Read 2737 times)
Akno21
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« on: December 29, 2004, 11:31:22 AM »

I'm not trying to politicize the tragedy, by saying we should raise taxes and help more or something like that.
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J-Mann
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« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2004, 11:44:21 AM »

In order to help significantly more we would have to raise taxes or cut programs of some kind.  It's too bad, but the American people aren't real big on charity toward other parts of the world, so it's doubtful that we'd approve of a tax hike to fund disaster relief.  Cutting any kind of programs is not an option either.  That said, the US will (in the end) contribute well over $1 billion to disaster relief in South Asia, and we're sending MEUs and a carrier task force to aid in recovery and reconstruction.  We ARE doing a lot.  Sure we could do more...we always could, and I don't think it would matter how much we did, we'd still get criticized from some UN pussy who thinks we're not doing enough.

I support individual donations to NGOs; they'll make a huge difference in support for relief efforts.
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Richard
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« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2004, 01:03:51 PM »

1.  Cut off all foreign aid except to close allies.  That, at this point, involves Israel, Britain, Australia, and possibly a few others such as Canada (Star Wars), Poland, and a few I don't know about.  Nothing is going to Africa.  Nothing to Latin America.  Nothing to Asia.

2.  Repay debts.

3.  Ignore rest of the world, unless a close ally needs help.

4.  Have citizens donate to relief organizations.  Your taxes should go to this.  It is not the government's responsibility to help.
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Akno21
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« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2004, 01:09:44 PM »

In order to help significantly more we would have to raise taxes or cut programs of some kind.  It's too bad, but the American people aren't real big on charity toward other parts of the world, so it's doubtful that we'd approve of a tax hike to fund disaster relief.  Cutting any kind of programs is not an option either.  That said, the US will (in the end) contribute well over $1 billion to disaster relief in South Asia, and we're sending MEUs and a carrier task force to aid in recovery and reconstruction.  We ARE doing a lot.  Sure we could do more...we always could, and I don't think it would matter how much we did, we'd still get criticized from some UN pussy who thinks we're not doing enough.


That's probably true, yet considering we spent over 100 billion in Iraq, and we are only spending 1% of that in this case, we should be able to do more, especially directly through the government.

My point is, if we are the sole remaining superpower and have the responsibility to save the world from terror, don't we have the same responsibilty in this case?
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Richard
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« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2004, 01:10:49 PM »

My point is, if we are the sole remaining superpower and have the responsibility to save the world from terror, don't we have the same responsibilty in this case?
No you don't.  And this is coming from a foreigner.  You owe us nothing.
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J-Mann
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« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2004, 01:15:36 PM »

4.  Have citizens donate to relief organizations.  Your taxes should go to this.

I'd like to see this.  It's ideal, but too many wouldn't pitch in.  Even with our government helping in this case, I would hope that citizens would want to donate to relief organizations.  Too many of us do not.
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Akno21
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« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2004, 01:25:57 PM »

My point is, if we are the sole remaining superpower and have the responsibility to save the world from terror, don't we have the same responsibilty in this case?
No you don't.  And this is coming from a foreigner.  You owe us nothing.
Tell that to all the neo-cons.
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David S
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« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2004, 02:15:54 PM »

If I was the president ( hmm I like the sound of that!) I would go on television and tell the American people that I would not take any of their hard earned tax money and spend it on disaster relief. But I would also say that there is a great need and that they should open their hearts and voluntarily contribute to the relief effort. If 1 out of 10 Americans sent $10 each that would come to nearly $300 million, a huge amount of money that would do great good there.
BTW $300 million is nearly ten times the amount the U.S. government has pledged.
BTW2 In a recent CNN poll people were asked if they had contributed to the relief fund. 14% said yes. Thats more that the 1 in 10 needed to reach $300 million.
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J-Mann
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« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2004, 02:21:05 PM »

If I was the president ( hmm I like the sound of that!) I would go on television and tell the American people that I would not take any of their hard earned tax money and spend it on disaster relief. But I would also say that there is a great need and that they should open their hearts and voluntarily contribute to the relief effort. If 1 out of 10 Americans sent $10 each that would come to nearly $300 million, a huge amount of money that would do great good there.
BTW $300 million is nearly ten times the amount the U.S. government has pledged.
BTW2 In a recent CNN poll people were asked if they had contributed to the relief fund. 14% said yes. Thats more that the 1 in 10 needed to reach $300 million.

The $35 million that the US has pledged is only in initial funds.  The total will likely reach over $1 billion. 
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Lunar
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« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2004, 03:19:46 PM »
« Edited: December 29, 2004, 03:24:01 PM by Lunar »


There's nothing holy about a border.

Besides, isolationism doesn't work.  The withdraw of a massive unipolar power would result in either a multipolar world system (probably resulting in a fun world war) or another unipolar power which would be able to rise and threaten the US.

The world is globalized.  What one country does affects everyone else.  Even if you take the realpolitik "screw it, why do I care if millions die?" approach, it's still not in US interests to iognore the world because a) dispruptions, like wars or AIDs outbreaks, hurt the US economy and b) Growing powers threaten US security.
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StatesRights
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« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2004, 03:59:22 PM »

How many of these other nations of coming running in to help us when we were hit by 4 devastating hurricanes. When the midwest was flooded out. The west was burning, flooding or whatever. These nations do not contribute one red cent to us. We are not *obligated* to give the most money of any nation in the world, especially when it comes out of every Americans pocket. Sorry, it does sound cold but I agree with David S. Charity begins at home and is NOT the job of the federal government.
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Akno21
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« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2004, 04:35:35 PM »

How many of these other nations of coming running in to help us when we were hit by 4 devastating hurricanes. When the midwest was flooded out. The west was burning, flooding or whatever. These nations do not contribute one red cent to us. We are not *obligated* to give the most money of any nation in the world, especially when it comes out of every Americans pocket. Sorry, it does sound cold but I agree with David S. Charity begins at home and is NOT the job of the federal government.

Because we talk so much about how we are the greatest nation in the world others figure we don't need help then.
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12th Doctor
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« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2004, 04:47:19 PM »

My point is, if we are the sole remaining superpower and have the responsibility to save the world from terror, don't we have the same responsibilty in this case?
No you don't.  And this is coming from a foreigner.  You owe us nothing.
Tell that to all the neo-cons.

Finally, someone knows what a real neo-con is.  I believe that it is our responsability as human beings and as the remaining superpower to do what we can, when we can.  If we don't not only are we not fulfilling our duty to our fellow man, but we will be truely resented by the rest of the world.
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StatesRights
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« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2004, 04:49:16 PM »

How many of these other nations of coming running in to help us when we were hit by 4 devastating hurricanes. When the midwest was flooded out. The west was burning, flooding or whatever. These nations do not contribute one red cent to us. We are not *obligated* to give the most money of any nation in the world, especially when it comes out of every Americans pocket. Sorry, it does sound cold but I agree with David S. Charity begins at home and is NOT the job of the federal government.

Because we talk so much about how we are the greatest nation in the world others figure we don't need help then.

Well thats a reasonable excuse!
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Huckleberry Finn
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« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2004, 08:05:19 AM »

How many of these other nations of coming running in to help us when we were hit by 4 devastating hurricanes. When the midwest was flooded out. The west was burning, flooding or whatever. These nations do not contribute one red cent to us. We are not *obligated* to give the most money of any nation in the world, especially when it comes out of every Americans pocket. Sorry, it does sound cold but I agree with David S. Charity begins at home and is NOT the job of the federal government.
You can't compare Florida hurricanes to this. USA is the richest country in the world so it's clear that you didn't need financial help. Nations in South East Asia obviously need. If thousands of Americans would be killed by a hurricane/earthquake situation was different and responsibility of foreign nations was help you by sending rescue workers etc. 
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KEmperor
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« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2004, 08:05:30 AM »

Hey, Mr. Apples and Oranges!  Your poll doesnt make sense.
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KEmperor
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« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2004, 08:06:55 AM »

How many of these other nations of coming running in to help us when we were hit by 4 devastating hurricanes. When the midwest was flooded out. The west was burning, flooding or whatever. These nations do not contribute one red cent to us. We are not *obligated* to give the most money of any nation in the world, especially when it comes out of every Americans pocket. Sorry, it does sound cold but I agree with David S. Charity begins at home and is NOT the job of the federal government.
You can't compare Florida hurricanes to this. USA is the richest country in the world so it's clear that you didn't need financial help. Nations in South East Asia obviously need. If thousands of Americans would be killed by a hurricane/earthquake situation was different and responsibility of foreign nations was help you by sending rescue workers etc. 

Yes, so, because the US isn't dirt poor we dont count for anything when we suffer Hurricanes, Tornados, Earthquakes, etc. every year.  Thats such a caring position.  It just makes me want to be so charitable to the rest of the world.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2004, 08:14:54 AM »

Without putting too fine a point on it, the recent disaster in SE Asia (the worst natural disaster since that earthquake in China that wiped out a city of over 200,000) is not even remotely comparable to any of the numerous small scale (relatively speaking) disasters that strike the U.S fairly a lot.
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Huckleberry Finn
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« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2004, 08:26:40 AM »

How many of these other nations of coming running in to help us when we were hit by 4 devastating hurricanes. When the midwest was flooded out. The west was burning, flooding or whatever. These nations do not contribute one red cent to us. We are not *obligated* to give the most money of any nation in the world, especially when it comes out of every Americans pocket. Sorry, it does sound cold but I agree with David S. Charity begins at home and is NOT the job of the federal government.
You can't compare Florida hurricanes to this. USA is the richest country in the world so it's clear that you didn't need financial help. Nations in South East Asia obviously need. If thousands of Americans would be killed by a hurricane/earthquake situation was different and responsibility of foreign nations was help you by sending rescue workers etc. 

Yes, so, because the US isn't dirt poor we dont count for anything when we suffer Hurricanes, Tornados, Earthquakes, etc. every year.  Thats such a caring position.  It just makes me want to be so charitable to the rest of the world.
I can understand you point, but I think every nation has responsibility to take care of its own problems first. Only if it can't do it, it's responsibility of others to help. (It's like a society generally. You are not going to donate for upper class family whose house has been destroyed by flood) I can't remember a single disaster when Finland would have been got any foreign help since 1940's and this is because we are the wealthy country (where any really big disaster hasn't been taken place. )
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Richard
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« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2004, 08:51:57 AM »

OK so if Bill Gates falls down and break his leg, he should help himself because he is rich, but if a some poor guy breaks his leg it is expected that Bill Gates should help him?

No.  Charity starts at home.  Let the rest of the world cope.  You don't owe us anything.  Help is nice, but NOT REQUIRED and if you give even a dime you should be receiving nothing but thanks, not complaints for more handouts.
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Akno21
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« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2004, 11:12:57 AM »

Hey, Mr. Apples and Oranges!  Your poll doesnt make sense.

How so? It's asking whether we help the world more by removing Saddam Hussein from power or by footing the vast majority of the clean-up/build-up expense in SE Asia.
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Platypus
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« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2004, 09:30:05 PM »

The US has donated as much money as it spends in a couple of hours in Iraq. It's still a lot of money, but I think the US (and australia) can do more.

It is good that the operational coalition of AUS, Japan, the US and India is being led by the US; as world leaders this is a great step for you to take and we appreciate it down here. The people up in Asia would appeciate it even more, and on behalf of all ROTWers, thanks America for what you've done so far.
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