Yet another unwanted endorsement for Huntsman

[Simfan34]

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http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/52924716-90/activist-climate-dechristopher-huntsman.html.csp

LOL

[Bacon King]

Tim DeChristopher is a FF, for what it's worth.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

What was he sent to jail for?

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Some more votes that Obama seems to have lost with his moderate heroism. Too bad he doesn't give a sh**t about some random guy in Utah.

[Bacon King]

What was he sent to jail for?

Being an unlicensed bidder at a public land auction, and making false statements on the related paperwork. When the Bush administration began illegally auctioning off a bunch of Federal land to oil companies in their last few days in office, DeChristopher showed up and bought $1.8 million dollars worth of land himself to protest the corruption.

[Alcon]

Most mundane reason for a multi-year federal sentence ever

[Simfan34]

And here's one he wanted, but didn't get:

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Who do you believe?

http://www.cnbc.com/id/45321290

[Link]

What was he sent to jail for?

Being an unlicensed bidder at a public land auction, and making false statements on the related paperwork. When the Bush administration began illegally auctioning off a bunch of Federal land to oil companies in their last few days in office, DeChristopher showed up and bought $1.8 million dollars worth of land himself to protest the corruption.

If what I have read about Tim DeChristopher is true then something is really wrong with this country.  Two years in a federal lock up because you wanted to prevent a crime?!

[Alcon]

What was he sent to jail for?

Being an unlicensed bidder at a public land auction, and making false statements on the related paperwork. When the Bush administration began illegally auctioning off a bunch of Federal land to oil companies in their last few days in office, DeChristopher showed up and bought $1.8 million dollars worth of land himself to protest the corruption.

If what I have read about Tim DeChristopher is true then something is really wrong with this country.  Two years in a federal lock up because you wanted to prevent a crime?!

...by committing two crimes, instead of going through the legal system to prove that the federal government was committing a crime.

[Verily]

Doesn't sound like it should be an imprisonable offense, though, at least not for small individuals (context matters here). More like big fines. Especially the unlicensed bidder thing, which really should be a slap on the wrist. Whatever.

[Link]

What was he sent to jail for?

Being an unlicensed bidder at a public land auction, and making false statements on the related paperwork. When the Bush administration began illegally auctioning off a bunch of Federal land to oil companies in their last few days in office, DeChristopher showed up and bought $1.8 million dollars worth of land himself to protest the corruption.

If what I have read about Tim DeChristopher is true then something is really wrong with this country.  Two years in a federal lock up because you wanted to prevent a crime?!

...by committing two crimes, instead of going through the legal system to prove that the federal government was committing a crime.

Growing a single marijuana plant in my backyard and selling a single joint to my adult neighbor is two crimes.  Do you think in that scenario I should be put in a Federal lockup for two years?  What if I was from the Netherlands and didn't realize the severity of my crime?  Does that factor into your analysis?

I have no idea what we are doing as a country.  We have the highest incarceration rate in the world and when you point that out people just shrug and say "he committed two crimes."  Two years in a federal lock up deserves more analysis than that.

[Alcon]

What was he sent to jail for?

Being an unlicensed bidder at a public land auction, and making false statements on the related paperwork. When the Bush administration began illegally auctioning off a bunch of Federal land to oil companies in their last few days in office, DeChristopher showed up and bought $1.8 million dollars worth of land himself to protest the corruption.

If what I have read about Tim DeChristopher is true then something is really wrong with this country.  Two years in a federal lock up because you wanted to prevent a crime?!

...by committing two crimes, instead of going through the legal system to prove that the federal government was committing a crime.

Growing a single marijuana plant in my backyard and selling a single joint to my adult neighbor is two crimes.  Do you think in that scenario I should be put in a Federal lockup for two years?  What if I was from the Netherlands and didn't realize the severity of my crime?  Does that factor into your analysis?

I have no idea what we are doing as a country.  We have the highest incarceration rate in the world and when you point that out people just shrug and say "he committed two crimes."  Two years in a federal lock up deserves more analysis than that.

None of that contradicts the point I was making:  The dude knowingly committed two crimes to symbolically stand against illegal governmental action.

Do I think his sentence seems disproportionate?  Yes.

Do I think our incarceration rate is problematic and we throw people into jail for dumb stuff?  Yes.

Do I understand the import of your pot analogy?  Not really.

But in any case, I don't see how any of those refute the point I was making:  The problem is not that he wanted to prevent a crime, or even that he took unlawful action to prevent a crime from actually happening.  He took unlawful action to symbolically stand against the commission of a crime.  That's why he was prosecuted, and that's nothing like how you described his prosecution.

[Link]

What was he sent to jail for?

Being an unlicensed bidder at a public land auction, and making false statements on the related paperwork. When the Bush administration began illegally auctioning off a bunch of Federal land to oil companies in their last few days in office, DeChristopher showed up and bought $1.8 million dollars worth of land himself to protest the corruption.

If what I have read about Tim DeChristopher is true then something is really wrong with this country.  Two years in a federal lock up because you wanted to prevent a crime?!

...by committing two crimes, instead of going through the legal system to prove that the federal government was committing a crime.

Growing a single marijuana plant in my backyard and selling a single joint to my adult neighbor is two crimes.  Do you think in that scenario I should be put in a Federal lockup for two years?  What if I was from the Netherlands and didn't realize the severity of my crime?  Does that factor into your analysis?

I have no idea what we are doing as a country.  We have the highest incarceration rate in the world and when you point that out people just shrug and say "he committed two crimes."  Two years in a federal lock up deserves more analysis than that.

None of that contradicts the point I was making:  The dude knowingly committed two crimes to symbolically stand against illegal governmental action.

Do I think his sentence seems disproportionate?  Yes.

Do I think our incarceration rate is problematic and we throw people into jail for dumb stuff?  Yes.

Do I understand the import of your pot analogy?  Not really.

But in any case, I don't see how any of those refute the point I was making:  The problem is not that he wanted to prevent a crime, or even that he took unlawful action to prevent a crime from actually happening.  He took unlawful action to symbolically stand against the commission of a crime.  That's why he was prosecuted, and that's nothing like how you described his prosecution.

The pot analogy is clear.  Just because someone commits two crimes does not mean they deserve two years in a federal lock up.

I never said anything about the prosecutor.  You have cherry picked one person out of an entire legal system.  I expect the prosecutor to file charges and forcefully prosecute the case.  I also expect the defense attorney to vigorously defend the case.  What I also expect is an impartial judge or jury to arrive at a common sense conclusion based on all the evidence and circumstances of the case.

I am not an expert on this case but I have not read anything that indicates to me that the man in question knew the possible consequences of his actions.  It was described as a spur of the moment action.  I break the law knowingly from time to time (illegal u-turn).  I would be pretty surprised if I ended up in a federal lock up for two years.

[Link]

...by committing two crimes, instead of going through the legal system to prove that the federal government was committing a crime.

Here is the "system" he was asked to legally utilize...



What he did was illegal.  It was not unreasonable for the prosecutor to look into it, but somewhere along the way someone with common sense should have put the brakes on the fiasco.  Just because someone isn't 100% right doesn't give the powers that be carte blanche to crush a private citizen with the full weight of the machine.  Is this more of that American "exceptionalism" I've been hearing so much about?  Good bless America!  Maybe Jeremiah Wright was on to something.

Jus' sayin'

[Bacon King]

Regarding DeChristopher's harsh sentencing, a significant factor to note was the strict limitations that the judge placed on his legal team during the trial (which are now some of the central issues in his appeal).

Judge Dee Benson prohibited DeChristopher's lawyers from making a necessity defense, they weren't allowed to say that his actions were motivated by his morals and concern for the environment, they couldn't inform the jury that he had the money to pay for the land (or that he even attempted to pay for it), and they couldn't even inform the jury that the auction was illegal.

Some background on Judge Benson, by the way: in 1987 he co-wrote the Iran-Contra Investigating Committee's minority report for one Representative Dick Cheney of Wyoming, which hilariously placed all blame for the fiasco on the Democratic Congress. That should tell you a bit about the guy.

[Alcon]

The pot analogy is clear.  Just because someone commits two crimes does not mean they deserve two years in a federal lock up.

I did not say he did.

I never said anything about the prosecutor.  You have cherry picked one person out of an entire legal system.  I expect the prosecutor to file charges and forcefully prosecute the case.  I also expect the defense attorney to vigorously defend the case.  What I also expect is an impartial judge or jury to arrive at a common sense conclusion based on all the evidence and circumstances of the case.

Dude, I never said anything about the prosecutor.  I used the word "prosecute."

I am not an expert on this case but I have not read anything that indicates to me that the man in question knew the possible consequences of his actions.  It was described as a spur of the moment action.

I'm pretty sure that he probably knew lying in a bid for federal action is more illegal than a u-turn.  Of course, I think this prosecution seems pretty stupid, but that's not the point I was making.

In fact, let's step back: Do you even know what point I was making?  Because none of these complaints suggest you do.  (Hint: It's about the inaccuracy of the way you presented the situation, not about whether I agree with the situation's outcome.)

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

And here's one he wanted, but didn't get:

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Who do you believe?

http://www.cnbc.com/id/45321290

Has Trump ever been remotely trustworthy?

[Simfan34]

No. In other news, Andy Ostroy predicts Jon Huntsman will win the GOP nomination:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-ostroy/jon-huntsman-2012_b_1092923.html

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

No. In other news, Andy Ostroy predicts Jon Huntsman will win the GOP nomination:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-ostroy/jon-huntsman-2012_b_1092923.html

That was even less convincing than I thought it would be.

[Simfan34]

Jon Huntsman... the candidate of convicted felons, Or, in an alternate history, the Chicago Sun-Times endorses Jon Huntsman:

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http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/11/25/our-picks-for-the-2012-republican-presidential-nomination/

[Oakvale]

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Not really surprising that Conrad Black, Nixon revisionist extraordinaire, actually believes this idiocy, but it was still painful to read.

[Simfan34]

I had a little Nixon-revisionist phase once, and upon looking at his social and economic policy promptly disliked him once more.