Rossi calls for new election to determine next governor
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  Rossi calls for new election to determine next governor
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CARLHAYDEN
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« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2005, 09:29:42 PM »

The closer you look, the worse it looks.  Another specific example for your consideration:


This is either a case of double voting or one amazing coinky-dink.

Two absentee votes were cast by people named Dustin S OCoilain.

The first Dustin S OCoilain registered on February 25, 2004 listing his residence as 77 S Washington St, The Compass Center homeless shelter.

The second Dustin S OCoilain registered on September 22, 2004 listing his residence as 500 4th Ave, Room 553, the King County Elections office. His mailing address: 77 S Washington St.

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CARLHAYDEN
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« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2005, 09:47:42 PM »

Here's some more information:

Rossi given fresh hope as 'mystery voters' grow
GOP calls on counties to explain a discrepancy of nearly 8,500

By CHRIS McGANN
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER CAPITOL CORRESPONDENT

Thousands of "mystery voters" in the counties of King, Pierce, Snohomish, Clark and Kitsap appear to be Republican Dino Rossi's best prospect for challenging the legitimacy of the closest and most contentious gubernatorial election in the state's history.

The state Republican Party yesterday called on county election officials to explain what the GOP says is a nearly 8,500-vote discrepancy between county vote tallies and the number of people credited with actually voting in the election.

"People ask me what would fraud look like? It would look like this," said state Republican Party Chairman Chris Vance.

County auditors and election officials say Republicans have based their conclusions on there being many more votes than voters on preliminary lists, and they say much of the deviation would be accounted for as voter lists are updated.

But they do not dispute that the numbers don't add up.

And most agree they never will.

"At the end of this, it's never going to match one to one given the volume," said Dean Logan, elections director of King County, which counted about 900,000 votes.

The current number is "larger than I'm comfortable with," Logan said. But based on historical data, he expects the reconciled lists to include 1,000 to 1,500 more votes than voters accounted for even after the lists are reconciled.

Vance said.

"You simply can't have more votes counted than you have voters," Vance said. "The counties have to come up with a plausible explanation for this and if they don't this election is invalid on its face."

And Secretary of State Sam Reed again said that this issue could be used to contest the election.

Last week Republicans demanded that King County explain how its tally of votes counted exceeded the number of people listed as voting by 3,539. This week they found similar disparities in other populous counties.

Republicans contend that serious questions arise when results are certified before the voter lists are reconciled with the number of votes counted.

Reed said that in each election, counties have a statutory requirement to record the names of all voters who cast ballots. He said that reconciling that list with the list of votes cast is an important quality-control measure.

Significant discrepancies could be of grave concern, he said.

"This is an issue that could potentially be used to contest the election," Reed said. "You'd have to make the point to the judge that it actually made a difference."

Rossi's spokeswoman Mary Lane said there's no excuse for certifying the election before these lists are reconciled. Otherwise, "we can't be certain that the number they certified is valid," Lane said.

"If someone wanted to commit voter fraud, this is one of the ways they could do it. When you have a number this huge, in an election this close, we need to have the answers and the counties need to provide those answers -- and the onus is on them right now."

One high-profile Republican, former Gov. Dan Evans, joined the chorus calling for a new election with an online essay published Friday.

"Democracy may be messy, but its principles are why it still serves us best," Evans wrote for the Web site www.revotewa.com. "If we screw up the implementation, let's go back to the principles. The voters' will is paramount."

He proposed a special election next month. Yesterday, Evans said his appetite for a revote depends heavily on how King County answers questions about the 3,500-vote difference between voter rolls and certified ballots.

"If they can explain that and there are no other significant errors, in spite of the fact of a close election, it's time to say 'OK, we'll accept it,' " Evans said
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CARLHAYDEN
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« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2005, 09:52:14 PM »

More information about the shennanigans in the King county vote 'count' should be available soon!

I'm waiting for all the Logan defenders to explain away what is coming up.

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minionofmidas
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« Reply #28 on: January 05, 2005, 06:56:16 AM »

ah yes, more mindless claims that the votes that gave Gregoire her margin of victory are fradulent with no proof to back it up.
Sure. They were cast for a Liberal, and nobody would vote for a Liberal. All these votes for Gregoire and Kerry and McCain and...you name it...are fraudulent.
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CARLHAYDEN
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« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2005, 09:17:36 AM »

Lewis, I suggest that now would be a good time to back off.

You are approaching the status of JFRaud when he defended the TANG memos.

Please note that I predicted well before it became public what Logan would do.

Also please note that I have (over several threads in this forum) given numerous specific examples of irregularities.

More specific examples are forthcoming.
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danwxman
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« Reply #30 on: January 05, 2005, 11:30:22 AM »

Here's some more information:

Rossi given fresh hope as 'mystery voters' grow
GOP calls on counties to explain a discrepancy of nearly 8,500

By CHRIS McGANN
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER CAPITOL CORRESPONDENT

Thousands of "mystery voters" in the counties of King, Pierce, Snohomish, Clark and Kitsap appear to be Republican Dino Rossi's best prospect for challenging the legitimacy of the closest and most contentious gubernatorial election in the state's history.

The state Republican Party yesterday called on county election officials to explain what the GOP says is a nearly 8,500-vote discrepancy between county vote tallies and the number of people credited with actually voting in the election.

"People ask me what would fraud look like? It would look like this," said state Republican Party Chairman Chris Vance.

County auditors and election officials say Republicans have based their conclusions on there being many more votes than voters on preliminary lists, and they say much of the deviation would be accounted for as voter lists are updated.

But they do not dispute that the numbers don't add up.

And most agree they never will.

"At the end of this, it's never going to match one to one given the volume," said Dean Logan, elections director of King County, which counted about 900,000 votes.

The current number is "larger than I'm comfortable with," Logan said. But based on historical data, he expects the reconciled lists to include 1,000 to 1,500 more votes than voters accounted for even after the lists are reconciled.

Vance said.

"You simply can't have more votes counted than you have voters," Vance said. "The counties have to come up with a plausible explanation for this and if they don't this election is invalid on its face."

And Secretary of State Sam Reed again said that this issue could be used to contest the election.

Last week Republicans demanded that King County explain how its tally of votes counted exceeded the number of people listed as voting by 3,539. This week they found similar disparities in other populous counties.

Republicans contend that serious questions arise when results are certified before the voter lists are reconciled with the number of votes counted.

Reed said that in each election, counties have a statutory requirement to record the names of all voters who cast ballots. He said that reconciling that list with the list of votes cast is an important quality-control measure.

Significant discrepancies could be of grave concern, he said.

"This is an issue that could potentially be used to contest the election," Reed said. "You'd have to make the point to the judge that it actually made a difference."

Rossi's spokeswoman Mary Lane said there's no excuse for certifying the election before these lists are reconciled. Otherwise, "we can't be certain that the number they certified is valid," Lane said.

"If someone wanted to commit voter fraud, this is one of the ways they could do it. When you have a number this huge, in an election this close, we need to have the answers and the counties need to provide those answers -- and the onus is on them right now."

One high-profile Republican, former Gov. Dan Evans, joined the chorus calling for a new election with an online essay published Friday.

"Democracy may be messy, but its principles are why it still serves us best," Evans wrote for the Web site www.revotewa.com. "If we screw up the implementation, let's go back to the principles. The voters' will is paramount."

He proposed a special election next month. Yesterday, Evans said his appetite for a revote depends heavily on how King County answers questions about the 3,500-vote difference between voter rolls and certified ballots.

"If they can explain that and there are no other significant errors, in spite of the fact of a close election, it's time to say 'OK, we'll accept it,' " Evans said


lol Carl....sad...just sad. You are sounding just like the Democrats you critisize who "can't get over it"
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ShaftJackson
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« Reply #31 on: January 05, 2005, 12:11:07 PM »

And why should he?  Gregoire's margin of "victory" was 130 "votes", with 8,500+ more votes than voters.  The fact of the matter is, a revote is the only way to give either candidate some vestige of legitimacy.
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danwxman
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« Reply #32 on: January 05, 2005, 02:09:35 PM »

And why should he?  Gregoire's margin of "victory" was 130 "votes", with 8,500+ more votes than voters.  The fact of the matter is, a revote is the only way to give either candidate some vestige of legitimacy.

Alright then, let's revote 2000.
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CARLHAYDEN
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« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2005, 03:12:17 PM »

I'll try to make this simple for you.

Evidence increases daily that the vote count in Kings county was fraudulent.

There is NO credible evidence to show that the vote count in Florida was fraudulent.

Bush legitimately won Florida, whereas it appears that Gregoire 'won' Washington due to shennanigans by Logan and company.
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jfern
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« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2005, 03:44:51 PM »

I'll try to make this simple for you.

Evidence increases daily that the vote count in Kings county was fraudulent.

There is NO credible evidence to show that the vote count in Florida was fraudulent.

Bush legitimately won Florida, whereas it appears that Gregoire 'won' Washington due to shennanigans by Logan and company.

What makes you say there's no evidence? Talk about double standards.
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danwxman
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« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2005, 03:49:58 PM »

I'll try to make this simple for you.

Evidence increases daily that the vote count in Kings county was fraudulent.

There is NO credible evidence to show that the vote count in Florida was fraudulent.

Bush legitimately won Florida, whereas it appears that Gregoire 'won' Washington due to shennanigans by Logan and company.

Let's say this: There's no substantial evidence of either. You are the biggest hypocrite on this board. Get over it.
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phk
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« Reply #36 on: January 05, 2005, 04:20:06 PM »

Is there a bigger, fatter, more egregious hypocrite on God's green earth than CARLHAYDEN?
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CARLHAYDEN
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« Reply #37 on: January 05, 2005, 07:22:08 PM »

More information from the King county fiasco (as I promised).

This from the Seattle Times:

Election scrutiny reveals provisional-vote flaws

By Keith Ervin

Seattle Times staff reporter

An unknown number of provisional voters, some of whom may not even have been registered to vote, improperly put their ballots directly into vote-counting machines at polling places, King County's elections superintendent said yesterday.

Once those ballots went into the machines, there was no way to separate them from legitimate ballots.

Provisional ballots are given on Election Day to voters who show up at the wrong precinct or whose registration is in question. The ballots are supposed to be put inside two envelopes, with the voter's name, address and signature on the outside, and counted only after the voter's status is verified.

Officials may never know exactly how many provisional ballots were improperly fed into voting machines, but a current review of polling-place records will give some indication of how widespread the problem was, county Elections Superintendent Bill Huennekens said.

Improperly cast provisional votes could play a role in a possible Republican challenge of Democrat Christine Gregoire's 129-vote victory over Republican Dino Rossi, whose campaign is preparing to ask that the election be set aside.

Miscast provisional votes could be one reason the number of ballots counted in King County outnumbered the list of voters who voted by 3,539.

"What part of it was it?" Huennekens said. "I don't know. Did it happen? Yes. Unfortunately, that's part of the process in King County, where we have over 2,600 precincts and over 540 polling locations and nearly 4,000 workers. It's a very human process, and in some cases that did happen."

State Republican Party Chairman Chris Vance, who plans to discuss the provisional-ballot issue at a news conference today, said it constituted a serious lapse in election security.

"We have very, very loose standards and procedures," he said. "I don't think our system in this state takes fraud and accuracy seriously."

In King County, a record 27,641 provisional ballots were counted in the election; 1,791 others were disqualified either because the voter wasn't registered or the signature on the ballot envelope didn't match the signature on file.
 
But in some cases, Huennekens said, poll workers mistakenly instructed provisional voters to put ballots directly into machines. In other cases, voters disregarded instructions and put their ballots into machines while workers were busy.

"I can't completely fault our poll workers 100 percent in this matter, especially when you're dealing with over 300,000 voters at the polls. People come in all kinds of varieties and shapes and sizes," Huennekens said.

Jim Rigby, a Republican observer at a polling place in the lobby of the King County Administration Building on Election Day, said that the scene was "chaos" and that he objected when one man walked into the building and promptly shoved a ballot into the vote-counting machine.

Rigby said others at the poll site saw two other voters put provisional ballots in the machine.

Teams of workers yesterday began comparing poll-book entries with computer records as part of "reconciling" the numbers, an activity that occurs after every election. Results are to be released Friday.

It's not the first election King County has had difficulty getting the numbers of voters and ballots to match. In the 2003 off-year general election, the number of ballots cast exceeded the number of voters by 606, even after reconciliation was completed.





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phk
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« Reply #38 on: January 05, 2005, 07:27:25 PM »

yadda yadda yadda
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CARLHAYDEN
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« Reply #39 on: January 06, 2005, 10:27:04 AM »

I realize YOU are allergic to facts, so here's some more:

GOP announces 'bombshell' in voting
Vance produces election worker who raised ballot questions

By NEIL MODIE
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER

Escalating his daily drumbeat for a revote for governor, state Republican Party Chairman Chris Vance said yesterday that hundreds of unverified provisional ballots may have been wrongly counted in King County in the Nov. 2 election.

Vance called it a "bombshell" in the Republicans' case for invalidating Democratic Gov.-elect Christine Gregoire's 129-vote victory over Republican Dino Rossi in a second recount of 2.9 million votes cast, and added, "There may be many smoking guns."

Gregoire won 57.7 percent and Rossi 40 percent of King County's 900,000 votes. Vance has focused on the state's biggest, most reliably Democratic county in pointing to errors in the governor's election and calling for a new vote.

He cited an admission by a King County election official that an unknown number of provisional voters may have improperly placed their ballots directly into vote-tabulating machines before it was determined whether they were eligible to vote.

Provisional ballots are issued to people who go to polling places but aren't listed on voter registration rolls in the precinct.

"I think the only way of settling this certified mess of an election is a revote," Vance said.

King County elections supervisor Bill Huennekens yesterday did not return repeated calls seeking his response to the accusations.

At a Bellevue news conference, Vance produced a Republican-appointed King County election worker, Joe O'Donnell, who said he personally witnessed about 150 to 300 provisional ballots go straight into AccuVote tabulating machines on Election Day without any voter verification.

O'Donnell, a college student, said he pointed out the improprieties to polling place supervisors, but by then it was too late to separate the ballots of questionable validity from other ballots.
 
And Ruth Bennett, the Libertarian Party candidate who got 2.3 percent of the statewide vote for governor, said at the news conference that she, as a King County election worker, observed provisional ballots that were improperly secured.

She also said there was no consistency in how election workers determined voter intent of ambiguously completed ballots.

Vance said the Republican Party is still researching whether ineligible voters around the state may have been allowed to cast ballots and added, "We continue to collect new information, new data, new evidence," including death certificates and prison records.

He declined to say what legal, political or other action the party might take and when it might occur.

Bennett called for a new gubernatorial election, with herself as well as Gregoire and Rossi once again on the ballot. Given the sliver of gubernatorial votes won by herself, she noted, "51 percent of the people in this state" voted against each of the other two candidates.

County officials have said there are several possible explanations, such as voters who moved after the election, voters who were previously classified as "inactive," or those who signed poll books in the wrong place.

But based on historical data, King County officials have said the reconciled lists could include 1,000 to 1,500 more votes than voters accounted for even after the lists are reconciled.



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Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon
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« Reply #40 on: January 06, 2005, 11:08:56 AM »

This kind of stuff happens in every election everywhere.  A re-vote could set a precedent with national implications that are far more dangerous  than Christine Gregoire sitting in the Governors chair.
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Nym90
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« Reply #41 on: January 06, 2005, 11:19:27 AM »

This kind of stuff happens in every election everywhere. A re-vote could set a precedent with national implications that are far more dangerous than Christine Gregoire sitting in the Governors chair.

Not to mention that Sam Reed, the Republican Secretary of State, has certified Gregoire and said that there is no evidence of fraud. So is he incompetent, taking bribes, or what?
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Alcon
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« Reply #42 on: January 06, 2005, 07:29:49 PM »

This kind of stuff happens in every election everywhere. A re-vote could set a precedent with national implications that are far more dangerous than Christine Gregoire sitting in the Governors chair.

Not to mention that Sam Reed, the Republican Secretary of State, has certified Gregoire and said that there is no evidence of fraud. So is he incompetent, taking bribes, or what?

And is now saying we should have a revote.

Sam Reed is an odd duck.
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CARLHAYDEN
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« Reply #43 on: January 06, 2005, 08:25:48 PM »

Question.

Has it been established that there were enought votes in King county which were at the very least 'improperly' processed (which in fact, it the law had been followed, might not have been counted) which exceeds the margin of victory of the 'winning' candidate?

Seems to me that the evidence is piling up that the number of so-called 'votes' well exceeds Gregoires supposed margin of victory.

Note, there is more evidence which should be available soon.

I also note that the 'defense' of Logan et al. now comes down to saying that they always screw up and there latest screw up is merely 'typical' of their vote counting.

What they fail to comprehend that 'criminal intent' can be inferred when there is a legal responsibility to act in a particular way, and where the defendant hold themselves out to be specialists in a particular subject matter, and they failed to follow clear established procedure.

Its called 'gross (criminal) negligence.'

Also, I notice that I am the only one here posting factual updates.

The Gregoire supporters apparently cann't handle the truth.

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Nym90
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« Reply #44 on: January 07, 2005, 10:41:09 AM »

This kind of stuff happens in every election everywhere. A re-vote could set a precedent with national implications that are far more dangerous than Christine Gregoire sitting in the Governors chair.

Not to mention that Sam Reed, the Republican Secretary of State, has certified Gregoire and said that there is no evidence of fraud. So is he incompetent, taking bribes, or what?

And is now saying we should have a revote.

Sam Reed is an odd duck.

Really? I was not aware of that. I thought he stated clearly that there was no fraud. He's changed his mind?

Regarding Carl's assertions that there are more votes that have been improperly processed than Gregoire's margin of victory, even if it is true, is there any evidence that ALL of these votes were cast for Gregoire (or that they were even disproportionately for Gregoire)?
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Brandon H
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« Reply #45 on: January 07, 2005, 12:03:45 PM »

When Rossi was leading, Gregoire and the Democrats wanted a recount. Then after the recount when Gregoire was leading, Rossi and the Republicans want a revote. What's to say that another recount would not put Rossi back ahead? What's to say another recount after that would not put Gregoire back ahead. Why weren't the votes certified when Rossi was ahead. Why not do another recount before certifying? (Yeah, there is a dead line to certify them.)

If there is revote would the third candidate be allowed in as well, or would this be more of a run-off (almost like Louisiana)? And knowing how most people voted, would people who voted for the other candidate still vote for that person or would they vote for Rossi or Gregoire instead?
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phk
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« Reply #46 on: January 07, 2005, 12:18:41 PM »

Rossi is so out of touch with Washington its unbelievable, practically running on a "nice-person" platform, he hid his positions on the issues to win.

If anything he deserved it.

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jfern
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« Reply #47 on: January 07, 2005, 03:51:34 PM »

When Rossi was leading, Gregoire and the Democrats wanted a recount. Then after the recount when Gregoire was leading, Rossi and the Republicans want a revote. What's to say that another recount would not put Rossi back ahead? What's to say another recount after that would not put Gregoire back ahead. Why weren't the votes certified when Rossi was ahead. Why not do another recount before certifying? (Yeah, there is a dead line to certify them.)

If there is revote would the third candidate be allowed in as well, or would this be more of a run-off (almost like Louisiana)? And knowing how most people voted, would people who voted for the other candidate still vote for that person or would they vote for Rossi or Gregoire instead?

It was a complete statewide manual recount.
That never happened in Florida 2000, or Ohio 2004.
There's nothing left to count.
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