Greece 2012
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Author Topic: Greece 2012  (Read 222018 times)
Landslide Lyndon
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« Reply #150 on: April 21, 2012, 06:22:05 PM »

No idea, and we need px to wean himself off boring American elections and devote his attention here, but I would figure they'd be a logical intermediate host for disappointed PASOK voters floating back?

Obviously you don't need my help. You pretty much nailed it.

But the question is, why are they floating back ?

For the same reason 90% of Republicans will vote for Romney even though they don't like him.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #151 on: April 21, 2012, 06:24:29 PM »

No idea, and we need px to wean himself off boring American elections and devote his attention here, but I would figure they'd be a logical intermediate host for disappointed PASOK voters floating back?

Obviously you don't need my help. You pretty much nailed it.

But the question is, why are they floating back ?

For the same reason 90% of Republicans will vote for Romney even though they don't like him.

Considering that the choice isn't PASOK vs ND anymore but rather Brussel's government vs Hard-left alternative vs Hard-right alternative, I really don't see why anyone disappointed by PASOK would consider coming back.
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Landslide Lyndon
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« Reply #152 on: April 21, 2012, 08:36:48 PM »
« Edited: April 22, 2012, 06:12:27 AM by Landslide Lyndon »

No idea, and we need px to wean himself off boring American elections and devote his attention here, but I would figure they'd be a logical intermediate host for disappointed PASOK voters floating back?

Obviously you don't need my help. You pretty much nailed it.

But the question is, why are they floating back ?

For the same reason 90% of Republicans will vote for Romney even though they don't like him.

Considering that the choice isn't PASOK vs ND anymore but rather Brussel's government vs Hard-left alternative vs Hard-right alternative, I really don't see why anyone disappointed by PASOK would consider coming back.

If the alternatives were worthwhile then PASOK would have been in even more trouble. But most left parties are jokes. Besides their fervent anti-EU rhetoric they have nothing substantial to say, not a single serious proposition about how to handle the current crisis.
Anodyne platitudes and a stringent refusal to enter any kind of coalition government just vindicate PASOK's argument that a vote for SYRIZA, DIMAR or KKE is a vote wasted.

And don't forget that PASOK had a hard core of around 35% of the electorate between 1977-2009. It's not that easy for these people to vote for another party after a lifetime of being staunch supporters of PASOK. Most of them haven't voted for another party in their entire life.
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Peter the Lefty
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« Reply #153 on: April 24, 2012, 05:28:11 PM »

How is it that PASOK is winning back dissatisfied voters while led by the guy that was FINANCE MINISTER throughout the entire term (and still is)? 
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Landslide Lyndon
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« Reply #154 on: April 24, 2012, 05:51:55 PM »

How is it that PASOK is winning back dissatisfied voters while led by the guy that was FINANCE MINISTER throughout the entire term (and still is)? 

Venizelos became finance minister last June after threatening Papandreou that he and his group of deputies would topple the government. Giorgos Papakonstantinou was until then and he took the blame for virtually everything by the media and his colleagues, even though he was constantly undermined by the likes of Venizelos and the rest of the old guard which didn't lift a finger to help with the necessary reforms.
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RedPrometheus
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« Reply #155 on: April 25, 2012, 06:56:56 AM »

Well I'm hoping for a PASOK-ND-KKE-SYRIZA-DIMAR-Greens coalition.

But I think I'm optimistic at that Wink
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Peter the Lefty
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« Reply #156 on: April 25, 2012, 04:46:16 PM »

Well I'm hoping for a PASOK-ND-KKE-SYRIZA-DIMAR-Greens coalition.

But I think I'm optimistic at that Wink
I'm hoping that SYRIZA will overtake PASOK (I was hoping that DIMAR would back in February and March, but that hasn't worked out).  Then it could hopefully overtake ND. 
I'd then hope for a SYRIZA-KKE-DIMAR-Greens coalition. 

Even more optimistic.
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LastVoter
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« Reply #157 on: April 26, 2012, 12:07:29 AM »

Well I'm hoping for a PASOK-ND-KKE-SYRIZA-DIMAR-Greens coalition.

But I think I'm optimistic at that Wink
What kind of coalition is that? Aren't those parties polar opposites in ideology?
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #158 on: April 26, 2012, 07:00:47 AM »

Apologies for my extreme ignorance on the matter, but is it actually possible that the election will produce a government that refuses the austerity mandated by the terms of EU bailout?

If so, then how are things likely to play out?
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Colbert
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« Reply #159 on: April 26, 2012, 07:49:59 PM »

one of last polls :

01-ND........................21.5% (liberal)
02-PASOK..................14% (social-liberal)
03-SYRISA.................13% (radical left)
04-ANEL....................11% (national-conservative)
05-KKE......................11% (communist)
06-DIMAR....................9.5% (social-liberal)
07-XA..........................5.5% (nazi)
08-OP.........................3.5% (green)
09-LAOS.....................3% (nationalist)
10-DISY.......................2% (liberal)
11-ANTARSYA..............1% (?est.)(liberal)
12-DRASI....................1% (?est.)(liberal)

13-EPAM.....................1%
(?) (no information. on their site, they speak about FYROM, but, can't determine his political ideology)
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You kip if you want to...
change08
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« Reply #160 on: April 26, 2012, 07:53:59 PM »

Something tells me the government formation's gonna drag on for a whiiiiiile...
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Colbert
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« Reply #161 on: April 26, 2012, 07:55:10 PM »

in aggregating ideological "coalition"


left...............................24%
liberal-left-wing............23.5%
green..............................3.5%
liberal-right-wing..........25.5%
right..............................14%
nazi...............................5.5%
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Colbert
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« Reply #162 on: April 26, 2012, 07:56:33 PM »

like france, seems greeks want another dose of liberalism...
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MaxQue
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« Reply #163 on: April 26, 2012, 09:20:21 PM »

I think they mostly want to stop to be a German colony, like French are saying by rejecting Sarkozy, the CDU candidate.
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Landslide Lyndon
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« Reply #164 on: April 27, 2012, 12:24:47 AM »

like france, seems greeks want another dose of liberalism...

There are no real liberal/conservative parties in Greece and that's our biggest problem. Everybody from the far left to the far right favors our current system of elephantine government, absurd regulations and bureaucracy, and crony capitalism.
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Franzl
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« Reply #165 on: April 27, 2012, 01:08:37 AM »

I think they mostly want to stop to be a German colony, like French are saying by rejecting Sarkozy, the CDU candidate.

Believe me - nothing in Greece or France seems to be as competent as the CDU. Which says more about the respective parties there than it does about the CDU. (Says the biased guy from Germany.)
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The Mikado
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« Reply #166 on: April 27, 2012, 11:59:29 AM »

What's the date of the election, again?

Also, does Greece plan to do anything about this ridiculous "give the winner 50 free seats" bulls**t at some point?  When the "winning" party may well get <25% of the vote?
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Nhoj
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« Reply #167 on: April 27, 2012, 12:08:23 PM »

What's the date of the election, again?

Also, does Greece plan to do anything about this ridiculous "give the winner 50 free seats" bulls**t at some point?  When the "winning" party may well get <25% of the vote?
May 6th same day as France's second round.
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SPQR
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« Reply #168 on: April 27, 2012, 01:08:33 PM »

What's the threshold to get any seats?
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Landslide Lyndon
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« Reply #169 on: April 27, 2012, 02:30:30 PM »

What's the threshold to get any seats?

3%.
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SPQR
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« Reply #170 on: April 27, 2012, 03:26:42 PM »

So is an ND+Anel+Laos gov't possible?
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Хahar 🤔
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« Reply #171 on: April 27, 2012, 04:53:21 PM »

What's the date of the election, again?

Also, does Greece plan to do anything about this ridiculous "give the winner 50 free seats" bulls**t at some point?  When the "winning" party may well get <25% of the vote?

It appears that the right rigs the system every time they take power.
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Landslide Lyndon
px75
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« Reply #172 on: April 28, 2012, 12:31:48 AM »

What's the date of the election, again?

Also, does Greece plan to do anything about this ridiculous "give the winner 50 free seats" bulls**t at some point?  When the "winning" party may well get <25% of the vote?

It appears that the right rigs the system every time they take power.

Nah, PASOK was even better at that when they were in power.

Also, does Greece plan to do anything about this ridiculous "give the winner 50 free seats" bulls**t at some point?  When the "winning" party may well get <25% of the vote?

There would be a point to that if the smaller parties had shown a willingness to form coalitions and participate in governing.
But almost all of them (especially the left wing ones) have done the exact opposite and ruled out from the outset any such possibility. They are going after the protest vote and they couldn't care less about helping our country in any way.
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #173 on: April 28, 2012, 04:20:53 AM »

PASOK did introduce a fully proportional system in the late 80s. That led to three elections in a year and to the abandonment of the idea by the Greek political ruling class.
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Landslide Lyndon
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« Reply #174 on: April 28, 2012, 04:24:47 AM »

PASOK did introduce a fully proportional system in the late 80s. That led to three elections in a year and to the abandonment of the idea by the Greek political ruling class.

They did it after the Koskotas scandal erupted, to prevent ND from getting a majority in the parliament. They never really believed the idea of coalition governments and certainly the way the left behaved that period did nothing to prove them wrong.
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