Greece 2012
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Author Topic: Greece 2012  (Read 221953 times)
Bacon King
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« Reply #600 on: May 13, 2012, 10:37:36 PM »

Syriza would still get the fifty seat bonus; they're a "party" for the purposes of electoral law as long as Syriza's leader declares it to be so to the electoral commission.

Edit- and even if they didn't for some reason do so, the fifty seat bonus wouldn't apply and all 300 seats would be allocated proportionally IIRC; it wouldn't go to ND.
Are you sure about that?  I got my info from a Greek poster on another forum.

I don't remember my initial source, but here's confirmation of my interpretation by our forum's own Greek poster:

I don't know where you got that info from but I'm 99.9% sure Syriza in first place would still get the bonus.

Indeed. This part of the law is blatantly unconstitutional and our supreme court has already endorsed a VERY lax enforcement of the law.
Essentially a signed statement by a party's leader declaring that it's a single party and not a coalition is enough.
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Landslide Lyndon
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« Reply #601 on: May 14, 2012, 12:30:17 AM »

Is it true that the Independent Greeks are making war reparations from Germany a condition of any coalition? Tongue

Yes.
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Yelnoc
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« Reply #602 on: May 14, 2012, 10:32:06 AM »

Syriza would still get the fifty seat bonus; they're a "party" for the purposes of electoral law as long as Syriza's leader declares it to be so to the electoral commission.

Edit- and even if they didn't for some reason do so, the fifty seat bonus wouldn't apply and all 300 seats would be allocated proportionally IIRC; it wouldn't go to ND.
Are you sure about that?  I got my info from a Greek poster on another forum.

I don't remember my initial source, but here's confirmation of my interpretation by our forum's own Greek poster:

I don't know where you got that info from but I'm 99.9% sure Syriza in first place would still get the bonus.

Indeed. This part of the law is blatantly unconstitutional and our supreme court has already endorsed a VERY lax enforcement of the law.
Essentially a signed statement by a party's leader declaring that it's a single party and not a coalition is enough.

Ok, well this is where I got it from.  If you have an account on ah.com read the thread; it's very informative.

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Franzl
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« Reply #603 on: May 14, 2012, 10:53:07 AM »

So what's going on? Any government in sight?
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Middle-aged Europe
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« Reply #604 on: May 14, 2012, 11:15:19 AM »

Is it true that the Independent Greeks are making war reparations from Germany a condition of any coalition? Tongue

Yes.

Has this been a political issue in Greece before all the troubles started?

Otherwise it's just seems a bit too contrived. "Ah, well, we've got major economic problems now and desperately need some money. Luckily, there was this war 70 years ago we never got any reparations for, so maybe we'll go with this one."
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Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese
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« Reply #605 on: May 15, 2012, 08:51:44 AM »

Swedish television now reporting that Venizelos is saying it's official, there will be new elections.
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Yelnoc
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« Reply #606 on: May 15, 2012, 10:48:13 AM »

Is it true that the Independent Greeks are making war reparations from Germany a condition of any coalition? Tongue

Yes.

Has this been a political issue in Greece before all the troubles started?

Otherwise it's just seems a bit too contrived. "Ah, well, we've got major economic problems now and desperately need some money. Luckily, there was this war 70 years ago we never got any reparations for, so maybe we'll go with this one."
I thought Germany gave Greece a lump sum of money in 1960 or thereabouts.
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Landslide Lyndon
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« Reply #607 on: May 15, 2012, 11:02:44 AM »

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Franzl
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« Reply #608 on: May 15, 2012, 11:06:54 AM »

My sympathies, Px.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
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« Reply #609 on: May 15, 2012, 11:17:14 AM »

Syriza must win this, then the new government must go tell Merkel that either they get the money they need or the whole eurozone goes down.
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Franzl
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« Reply #610 on: May 15, 2012, 11:19:04 AM »

Syriza must win this, then the new government must go tell Merkel that either they get the money they need or the whole eurozone goes down.

The reports I've seen in the last several days seem to indicate that Greece leaving the Eurozone wouldn't actually be the end of the world. Even if the extreme left-wing wants it to be true.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
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« Reply #611 on: May 15, 2012, 11:21:41 AM »

Syriza must win this, then the new government must go tell Merkel that either they get the money they need or the whole eurozone goes down.

The reports I've seen in the last several days seem to indicate that Greece leaving the Eurozone wouldn't actually be the end of the world. Even if the extreme left-wing wants it to be true.

Maybe if it's only Greece, but you know that other countries would follow suit.
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Franzl
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« Reply #612 on: May 15, 2012, 11:23:55 AM »

Syriza must win this, then the new government must go tell Merkel that either they get the money they need or the whole eurozone goes down.

The reports I've seen in the last several days seem to indicate that Greece leaving the Eurozone wouldn't actually be the end of the world. Even if the extreme left-wing wants it to be true.

Maybe if it's only Greece, but you know that other countries would follow suit.

Hmmm. We'll see soon enough. Do you reckon I should be exchanging my saving from € to $? Wink
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Bacon King
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« Reply #613 on: May 15, 2012, 11:28:21 AM »

A Chief Justice will be appointed tomorrow to lead a caretaker government.

In other news: newest poll, from some company called Rass.

SYRIZA: 20.5%
ND: 19.4%
PASOK: 11.8%
ANEL: 7.8%
DIMAR: 6.2%
KKE: 4.8%
XA: 3.8%
[threshold: 3%]
DISY 2.4%
DX: 2.3%
LAOS: 2.0%
Greens: 1.8%

others: 3.7%
undecided: 11.3%

That's a lot of parties near the threshold, and it's refreshing to see Golden Dawn polling so low. It looks like ND might have a chance to keep the fifty bonus seats if undecideds on the right coalesce around them to a greater extent than leftist undecideds do so for SYRIZA.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
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« Reply #614 on: May 15, 2012, 11:35:03 AM »

Syriza must win this, then the new government must go tell Merkel that either they get the money they need or the whole eurozone goes down.

The reports I've seen in the last several days seem to indicate that Greece leaving the Eurozone wouldn't actually be the end of the world. Even if the extreme left-wing wants it to be true.

Maybe if it's only Greece, but you know that other countries would follow suit.

Hmmm. We'll see soon enough. Do you reckon I should be exchanging my saving from € to $? Wink

Who knows ? It depends a bit on the results of the next greek elections, a bit on the results of the french legislative elections this june, a bit on other european election, and a lot on the temperament of European leaders. I'm pretty sure the next 6 months will be crucial in determining our future...
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Landslide Lyndon
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« Reply #615 on: May 15, 2012, 11:35:39 AM »

Syriza must win this, then the new government must go tell Merkel that either they get the money they need or the whole eurozone goes down.

The reports I've seen in the last several days seem to indicate that Greece leaving the Eurozone wouldn't actually be the end of the world. Even if the extreme left-wing wants it to be true.

Of course. Especially if are eager to relive the experience of Ceausescu's Romania.
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Franzl
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« Reply #616 on: May 15, 2012, 11:39:10 AM »

Syriza must win this, then the new government must go tell Merkel that either they get the money they need or the whole eurozone goes down.

The reports I've seen in the last several days seem to indicate that Greece leaving the Eurozone wouldn't actually be the end of the world. Even if the extreme left-wing wants it to be true.

Of course. Especially if are eager to relive the experience of Ceausescu's Romania.

Think it would get that bad? I admit I don't have much insight into how bad things really are on the ground in Greece.

Either way, I do feel sorry that we all got ourselves into this mess to begin with. And I'm not pointing fingers at any one nationality here. I think everyone jumped into this focused on a grand political project without adequately considering the potential consequences.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
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« Reply #617 on: May 15, 2012, 11:41:20 AM »

Syriza must win this, then the new government must go tell Merkel that either they get the money they need or the whole eurozone goes down.

The reports I've seen in the last several days seem to indicate that Greece leaving the Eurozone wouldn't actually be the end of the world. Even if the extreme left-wing wants it to be true.

Of course. Especially if are eager to relive the experience of Ceausescu's Romania.

Think it would get that bad? I admit I don't have much insight into how bad things really are on the ground in Greece.

Either way, I do feel sorry that we all got ourselves into this mess to begin with. And I'm not pointing fingers at any one nationality here. I think everyone jumped into this focused on a grand political project without adequately considering the potential consequences.

Honestly, it doesn't matter much to me where the problem stems from. The main issue is what has (and has not) been done to solve it since it emerged.
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Landslide Lyndon
px75
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« Reply #618 on: May 15, 2012, 11:48:22 AM »

Syriza must win this, then the new government must go tell Merkel that either they get the money they need or the whole eurozone goes down.

The reports I've seen in the last several days seem to indicate that Greece leaving the Eurozone wouldn't actually be the end of the world. Even if the extreme left-wing wants it to be true.

Of course. Especially if are eager to relive the experience of Ceausescu's Romania.

Think it would get that bad? I admit I don't have much insight into how bad things really are on the ground in Greece.

Either way, I do feel sorry that we all got ourselves into this mess to begin with. And I'm not pointing fingers at any one nationality here. I think everyone jumped into this focused on a grand political project without adequately considering the potential consequences.

We are broke, we don't produce anything (we import garlic from China and lemons from Morocco!) and our public administration is in shambles and rife with corruption.

If we return to drachma we will probably experience inflation around 50%. We will be unable to buy oil, medicine and other vital supplies and the people will need in a few months a couple of millions just to buy a loaf of bread.
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Franzl
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« Reply #619 on: May 15, 2012, 11:51:55 AM »

So I guess the big question is, Px: Will the voters show the maturity they failed to show in the last elections when confronted with this possibility?
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Lief 🗽
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« Reply #620 on: May 15, 2012, 11:55:28 AM »

As soon as Greece leaves the Euro, so does Spain. And then the whole house of cards collapses. Greece isn't big enough to take down the Eurozone on its own, but it's certainly big enough to start the mad dash for the door.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
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« Reply #621 on: May 15, 2012, 12:01:38 PM »

So I guess the big question is, Px: Will the voters show the maturity they failed to show in the last elections when confronted with this possibility?

Maturity ?!? Goddamnit, this post is so wrong that it depresses me...
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Lief 🗽
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« Reply #622 on: May 15, 2012, 12:03:57 PM »

So I guess the big question is, Px: Will the voters show the maturity they failed to show in the last elections when confronted with this possibility?

Maturity ?!? Goddamnit, this post is so wrong that it depresses me...

Disagreement with the neoliberal establishment is a sign of immaturity and lack of seriousness, Antonio.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #623 on: May 15, 2012, 12:11:21 PM »

So I guess the big question is, Px: Will the voters show the maturity they failed to show in the last elections when confronted with this possibility?

How would voting ND show that sort of 'maturity', exactly?
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
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« Reply #624 on: May 15, 2012, 12:14:04 PM »

I would also point out that, so far, the greatest immaturity and most utter lack of realism has been displayed by European neoliberal leaders, and chiefly Merkel.
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