Greece 2012

[MaxQue]

What happened to the old Synapsiamos?

[MaxQue]

I think they mostly want to stop to be a German colony, like French are saying by rejecting Sarkozy, the CDU candidate.

[MaxQue]

If Samaras calls another election and the result is identical, worse, or better but still not good enough, then what? Do they just keep calling election after election until someone can form a government?

What about ND+PASOK+one of either Independent Greeks, SYRIZA, or DIMAR.

I've quoted the process for forming a government twice in this thread; look back to page 14ish if you're curious; before new elections can be called all three of the largest parties get a shot at forming a government. If new elections still don't allow any sort of possibility for government, they can have multiple elections in a row, yes (see Greece, 1989-1990).

Got it, but what is the likely *eventual* outcome of this?  I mean, let's say they keep having election after election for months.....is there some kind of combination of parties that might eventually form a coalition that seems implausible now?  If, for example, SYRIZA gets the most seats in a future election, is there any chance of them forming an anti-austerity coalition that includes both the far left and far right?  Or is that never going to happen?

Anyone who claims to know what the eventual outcome is going to be is a liar/a fool... there's no way of knowing.

Am I a liar/a fool if I claim to know than it won't be pretty?

[MaxQue]

I find it ironic that the currency that was supposed to enhance freedom and peace in Europe has lead to consequences such as this.

The problem is than every currency is run according to a policy (it's inevitable, even laissez-faire is a policy) and than the policies chosen were beneficial to Germany and North Europe while being detrimental to Southern Europe and France (and UK if it joined, but they saw it wouldn't be good for them).

Sure, from the German view (whose economy is technology-based), Euro is great, but, from countries who aren't beneficing from it (a stong currency manifactural-based economies), it leads to deindustrialisation and the political consequences that goes with that.

[MaxQue]

It's the procedure outlined in the Constitution.
Anyways, DIMAR-ND-PASOK, with a DIMAR PM is the proposal of PASOK, now. Only the approval of ND is needed.

[MaxQue]

Well, they are right.
If Greece goes down, Europe goes down.
Hard austerity isn't the solution, since it kills growth.

[MaxQue]

Well, if all the Euro countries decide to pursue a sensible policy for Euro, Germany will have no choice, but to end their short-view egoist policy.

The current laissez-faire monetary of the Euro is the problem. And since it's good for Germany, Germany froces it to stay that way. Which is dumb, because it will lead to an economical collapse in Europe.

But Merkel doesn't care. She won't been in power when that will happen. She chose short term popularity, without giving a damn about future.

[MaxQue]

Given than all options are bad, I'm only saying than the best one is the one stopping the neoliberalism in Europe, before the whole state and safety net is destroyed.

[MaxQue]

The main problem isn't Greek budget, it's the fiscal policies of EU decided by Germany which are destroying the manifactural economy of Southern EU.

[MaxQue]

Why isn't TheNationalist/TheNazi banned yet?

Because Greece is a democracy?

We are talking of Atlas poster, on the forum.

[MaxQue]

Yeah, that meanie doesn't want to give me his money...guess I should hold a gun to his head. Right, Antonio?

I guess you know that it has never been about actually giving any money, right ?

If SYRIZA wins, it was a lot of money given.

Well, we wouldn't be there if the German governments didn't bullied neoliberalism on all Europe...

[MaxQue]

Yeah, that meanie doesn't want to give me his money...guess I should hold a gun to his head. Right, Antonio?

I guess you know that it has never been about actually giving any money, right ?

If SYRIZA wins, it was a lot of money given.

Well, we wouldn't be there if the German governments didn't bullied neoliberalism on all Europe...

You know, I do think you're rather simplifying this problem. I think several things happened that even made this situation possible, such as forming a common currency in the first place, not to mention the corrupt former Greek governments falsifying their data and so on to get in.

I know than I'm oversimplifying things, but I think than the fight against neoliberalism is more important than all those details. It is quite possible to have Euro and to not use it for pushing neoliberalism.

As for Greeks cooking their books, that's a problem, but Greek people shouldn't be punished because their government is corrupt. Measures against corruption must be taken, in the whole of Europe, to that situation to not repeat.

[MaxQue]

Well, the south evades more, but the South is way poorer than the North.

[MaxQue]

Schaüble...

I eagerly wait the day where some politician of another country says him than he is Germany's Finance minister and to stop putting his nose in other countries.

I'm not sure he would like if all foreign finance ministers said him what do to.