Greece 2012

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Ultimately it's an example of an electoral law that attempts to have its cake and eat it.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

And besides that, PR with a small majority bonus is still way more representative of popular vote than any form of constituency-based system.

But a system based on single member constituencies is not supposed to be representative of the overall popular vote.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Yes, I've heard people who consider it's more important to represent "the country's diversity" and to have MPs closely tied to a small community. Besides the fact FPP rarely actually achieve that (because that requires 1-a very large number of seats 2-that MPs are actually freeminded and not party hacks ; I don't know any country where those two criteria are met, and most don't meet either of them), I personally don't think it's important at all.

The actual problem is that constituencies are rarely drawn with that kind of thing in mind. And that, even when they are, not every constituency is a stronghold for party x, party y, or whoever. And that, even in strongholds, there are always people who hate the dominant party. And so on.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

You're right, this is certainly the biggest issue. Further reason why, even in the only logic that would make FPP legitimate, it's still ineffective.

Well, no electoral system is exactly effective, at least not all the time, at least not always in practice. But rigged PR systems are just silly.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Why so ? I hear this so often but I've never heard a convincing argument of what's so wrong with majority-bonus PR

Because it is an attempt to have your cake and eat it. If you accept the principle of proportionality, then you also have to accept (as a direct consequence) that traditional majoritarianism is less than entirely ideal. It's the sort of 'solution' to the 'problems' caused by proportional systems that could only ever be beloved by the political elite (however defined).

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Remember that PASOK doesn't really have roots.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I do, that's why I said "quite possibly", and not "they'll be around... somehow... in some form". Heck, even Israeli Labour is a more genuinely Socialist party than that thing.

Oh, I was just backing you up.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

<img></img> but with [] rather than <> and with the text thingy between. There is (I think) some sort of minimum number of posts rule as well. Can't recall what it is though.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

^^^

Again, PASOK does not have roots.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Struggling Greeks losing belief in the state, Paul Mason, BBC

Mason's been good on Greece from the start.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I've read somewhere that PASOK is rising in the polls.

All the way up to 15%. ND are down to 22%. This is going to be a different election.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

What happens if it becomes near enough impossible to form a government?

It isn't as though Greece is a sovereign country, so it hardly matters.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

New board rule: that particular party must always be referred to as 'Golden Shower'.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Any rumours?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Prediction:
XA 15 seats

Terrible, just terrible.

Urgh, yeah. Quite.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

So I guess the big question is, Px: Will the voters show the maturity they failed to show in the last elections when confronted with this possibility?

How would voting ND show that sort of 'maturity', exactly?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The money that would flow into Greece so that Greece can pay back the money that it owes, much of which it owes because of the horrific (hilarious?) failure of the first grand plan to solve its fiscal crisis? While things continue to get ever worse on a day-to-day basis in realityland? Election winning slogan right there.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Not, I should add, that I'm especially well disposed towards SYRIZA or whoever. Clearly they are delusional. But then so is everyone else (Merkel and so on absolutely included), if in different ways.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Isn't one of the rules for this board, not having these kind of discussions here?

It's not exactly banned, but is certainly heavily discouraged. Hard to really stop it in a thread about Greece, though.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Ok, can we call XD Golden Dawn?

No. The board rule is that they are to be called Golden Shower.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

BBC say its very close, for what that's worth.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Stark can post bland factual statements about the election, but does not get to drool. Attempts will be made to get him thrown off the forum again.