Ohio 2012 Congressional Races

[Miles]

  If we lose the spine of the progressive wing, the Democratic Party as a whole will only look weaker.  We already lost one of those heroes in the last midterm.

And Grayson will probably be back next year.

Look, I really like Kucinich, but I just think Kaptur is better for Ohio. She's more pragmatic, IMO, and she has a great seniority advantage.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

But Kaptur is just another member of the establishment, it seems.  Kucinich is much better at representing the Progressive movement as a whole and, unlike Kaptur, is willing to stand against his own party leadership when those values are compromised.  As for working with the other side, he's done plenty of work with Ron Paul.  But if the Democrats want their party to have any legitimacy at all, it needs to nominate less Marcy Kapturs' and more Dennis Kucinichs' and Alan Graysons'.  The Republicans nominate theirs all the time.

Hell, if Kaptur wins the primary, I'll just support the Green Party candidate.  Kucinich can carry out the rest of his work in WA.

Except that he doesn't represent the progressive movement well, if anything he hurts and discredits it.  The progressive/liberal-wing of the democratic party is/has been best represented by people like Russ Feingold, Sherrod Brown, Tom Perriello, Paul Wellstone, Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, etc.  People like Kucinich and Alan Grayson are self-promoting demagogues who increase polarization, demonize anyone who disagrees with them (rather than acknowledging that good people sometimes disagree on political issues), and alienate voters.  If the Democratic party ever becomes a party of Alan Grayson-types than I would want no part in it.  Additionally, saying "I'm going to be so ideologically puritanical that the candidates I support will never be in a position to actually do anything" is taking the easy way out.  It's like saying "society is so beneath my moral standards that I am not going to participate in it in a meaningful way."  Although this allows one to feel superior, it doesn't fix anything, in fact all it really does is ensure that there will be one less person trying to change society or policy for the better.  

Kucinich and Grayson only add to that group.  Increasing polarization?  Demonizing their opponents?  Have you seen the Republican primaries this year?  If the party does change in the way that they both want it to, that will only be for the better.  The modern Progressive movement, as far as I've seen, has become nothing but another pro-establishment movement.  That's what weakens the base.  If we lose the spine of the progressive wing, the Democratic Party as a whole will only look weaker.  We already lost one of those heroes in the last midterm.

 

Yes, I have seen the Republican primaries and the tea-party movement, that's the whole point.  I don't want the Democratic party to become that.  Grayson and Kucinich would not add to the group I mentioned, they would only discredit it.  There is a difference between having a spine and being a self-promoting demagogue.  Also, saying that because the Republicans have been hijacked by their most extreme factions, the Democrats should allow the same thing to happen to them is the political equivalent of "it's not my fault, they started it," hardly a valid justification for doing something.  Additionally, ideology isn't all that matters to voters, and objectively speaking, Kucinich will never be able to do anywhere near as much for Ohio as Kaptur due to the simple fact that he is (rightfully) a pariah in the eyes of most Democrats (including most liberals), Democratic politicians and rank-and-file voters can't stand the man.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

But Kaptur is just another member of the establishment, it seems.  Kucinich is much better at representing the Progressive movement as a whole and, unlike Kaptur, is willing to stand against his own party leadership when those values are compromised.  As for working with the other side, he's done plenty of work with Ron Paul.  But if the Democrats want their party to have any legitimacy at all, it needs to nominate less Marcy Kapturs' and more Dennis Kucinichs' and Alan Graysons'.  The Republicans nominate theirs all the time.

Hell, if Kaptur wins the primary, I'll just support the Green Party candidate.  Kucinich can carry out the rest of his work in WA.

Except that he doesn't represent the progressive movement well, if anything he hurts and discredits it.  The progressive/liberal-wing of the democratic party is/has been best represented by people like Russ Feingold, Sherrod Brown, Tom Perriello, Paul Wellstone, Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, etc.  People like Kucinich and Alan Grayson are self-promoting demagogues who increase polarization, demonize anyone who disagrees with them (rather than acknowledging that good people sometimes disagree on political issues), and alienate voters.  If the Democratic party ever becomes a party of Alan Grayson-types than I would want no part in it.  Additionally, saying "I'm going to be so ideologically puritanical that the candidates I support will never be in a position to actually do anything" is taking the easy way out.  It's like saying "society is so beneath my moral standards that I am not going to participate in it in a meaningful way."  Although this allows one to feel superior, it doesn't fix anything, in fact all it really does is ensure that there will be one less person trying to change society or policy for the better.  

Kucinich and Grayson only add to that group.  Increasing polarization?  Demonizing their opponents?  Have you seen the Republican primaries this year?  If the party does change in the way that they both want it to, that will only be for the better.  The modern Progressive movement, as far as I've seen, has become nothing but another pro-establishment movement.  That's what weakens the base.  If we lose the spine of the progressive wing, the Democratic Party as a whole will only look weaker.  We already lost one of those heroes in the last midterm.

 

Yes, I have seen the Republican primaries and the tea-party movement, that's the whole point.  I don't want the Democratic party to become that.  Grayson and Kucinich would not add to the group I mentioned, they would only discredit it.  There is a difference between having a spine and being a self-promoting demagogue.  Also, saying that because the Republicans have been hijacked by their most extreme factions, the Democrats should allow the same thing to happen to them is the political equivalent of "it's not my fault, they started it," hardly a valid justification for doing something.  Additionally, ideology isn't all that matters to voters, and objectively speaking, Kucinich will never be able to do anywhere near as much for Ohio as Kaptur due to the simple fact that he is (rightfully) a pariah in the eyes of most Democrats (including most liberals), Democratic politicians and rank-and-file voters can't stand the man.

If the Democrats continue to compromise on their values for the sake of appearing bipartisan, the other side will win.  All the establishment Democrats did during the first half of Obama's term was compromise every little thing they tried to pass and the Republicans didn't compromise a single thing.  As a result, we lost 60+ seats two years ago, and many of those lost seats belonged to pro-establishment, Republican-lite Democrats.  That is the biggest threat facing the Democratic Party today- not Dennis Kucinich or Alan Grayson.

Voting for a conservadem over a progressive in a primary because the former happens to have seniority on a committee is exactly what the establishment is promoting.  Kucinich has pushed for many things that benefit the country as a whole, while Kaptur served as a lapdog to the GOP.  The opposition Kucinich takes from the left comes mostly from that he isn't moderate enough for mainstream Democrats.  If most liberals are upset with Kucinich for his views, then that underlines the very problem with American liberalism today: it is a center-right ideology.

[TJ in Oregon]

I drove home to Sandusky to vote this morning and kept my eyes peeled for election lawn signs for the congressional race. I saw a few Kaptur signs in Erie County and one for Graham Veysey but none for Kucinich. It probably doesn't mean much because I highly doubt Kucinich was ever expecting to win Erie County, but I thought he would have at least managed to put signs up in front of the polling places like Kaptur's campaign did.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Veysey makes a very convincing case.  Why was Kaptur so slow to respond on how she voted on gay marriage?

[TJ in Oregon]

Veysey makes a very convincing case.  Why was Kaptur so slow to respond on how she voted on gay marriage?

She was probably trying to come up with a way to avoid giving an answer that would be unpopular in the Democratic primary. By her answer it seems rather likely she did in fact vote for the ban in '04.

[redcommander]

Where will the link to primary results be for tonight?

[LastVoter]

Do it for Helms Deep! Don't let the Orcs(Kaptur) win.

[TJ in Oregon]

Kucinich up 12225-11909 right now. Almost all of Kucinich's votes are from Cuyahoga County and almost all of Kaptur's are from everywhere else. If this keeps up, Kucinich will lose since less than half the district is in Cuyahoga County.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Kucinich up 12225-11909 right now. Almost all of Kucinich's votes are from Cuyahoga County and almost all of Kaptur's are from everywhere else. If this keeps up, Kucinich will lose since less than half the district is in Cuyahoga County.

Where are you getting these results from?

[krazen1211]

Kucinich up 12225-11909 right now. Almost all of Kucinich's votes are from Cuyahoga County and almost all of Kaptur's are from everywhere else. If this keeps up, Kucinich will lose since less than half the district is in Cuyahoga County.

Turnout might be different.

[TJ in Oregon]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/files/elections/2012/by_state/OH_Page_0306.html?SITE=AP&SECTION=POLITICS

I'm also looking at county BOE sites. Only Cuyahoga and Erie are particularly useful though.

[TJ in Oregon]

Kaptur now leading 16,325 to 14,196 with 16% in.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Damn, I don't see him winning this.

Washington state, it shall be.

[TJ in Oregon]

Kaptur expands her lead 17,901-14,258 with 20% in.

[Seattle]

Damn, I don't see him winning this.

Washington state, it shall be.

Where he will lose too. Since he'd lose both the 10th and 1st in the general (not to mention he wouldnt have a chance in the primary in the 10th). The 6th is a possibility, but the D field is pretty deep.

[krazen1211]

http://beta.wosu.org/news/2012/03/06/ohio-primary-election-news-turnout-light/

Joyce Beatty Defeats Mary Jo Kilroy In 3rd District Primary




As expected, the Republicans drew a favorable map for blacks in exchange for black support of the Congressional map.

Certainly it has worked as blacks now have 2 Representatives out of 18, rather than 1 out of 16!

[Sam Spade]

Political genuises you guys are and you missed this one...

U.S. House - District 2 - GOP Primary
625 of 632 Precincts Reporting - 99%
   Name   Party   Votes   Vote %
   Wenstrup, Brad   GOP   41,120   49%
   Schmidt, Jean (i)   GOP   36,141   43%
   Brush, Tony   GOP   4,161   5%
   Kundrata, Fred   GOP   2,890   3%

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Political genuises you guys are and you missed this one...

U.S. House - District 2 - GOP Primary
625 of 632 Precincts Reporting - 99%
   Name   Party   Votes   Vote %
   Wenstrup, Brad   GOP   41,120   49%
   Schmidt, Jean (i)   GOP   36,141   43%
   Brush, Tony   GOP   4,161   5%
   Kundrata, Fred   GOP   2,890   3%

Woah.

Why/how did this happen?

[Sam Spade]

Political genuises you guys are and you missed this one...

U.S. House - District 2 - GOP Primary
625 of 632 Precincts Reporting - 99%
   Name   Party   Votes   Vote %
   Wenstrup, Brad   GOP   41,120   49%
   Schmidt, Jean (i)   GOP   36,141   43%
   Brush, Tony   GOP   4,161   5%
   Kundrata, Fred   GOP   2,890   3%

Woah.

Why/how did this happen?

Republicans finally woke up and realized that Donald Duck is more electable than Jean Schmidt.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I like Kaptur

[Reaganfan]

FINALLY! Dennis is gone. Now hopefully Joe the Plumber will beat Kaptur!

[Miles]

http://beta.wosu.org/news/2012/03/06/ohio-primary-election-news-turnout-light/

Joyce Beatty Defeats Mary Jo Kilroy In 3rd District Primary




As expected, the Republicans drew a favorable map for blacks in exchange for black support of the Congressional map.

Certainly it has worked as blacks now have 2 Representatives out of 18 16, rather than 1 out of 16 18!

The unholy alliance between black Democrats and Republicans makes me sick.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Well, congratulations to the establishment.  You get to keep your war-funder.

[Miles]

Kucinich takes a last swing at Kaptur as he concedes:

I would like to be able to congratulate Congresswoman Kaptur but I do have to say that she ran a media campaign in the Cleveland media market that was utterly lacking in integrity with false statements half truths, [and] misrepresentations. I hope that is not the kind of representation she would provide to this community. And I don't think the people of Toledo have any idea of the kind of campaign that was run up in the Cleveland area.