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Author Topic: Whig Party National Conference  (Read 45840 times)
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MasterSanders
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« Reply #150 on: February 01, 2012, 01:07:43 pm »

I think if we make abortion, especially at the federal level, a top issue of this party, unfortunately, we'll be setting ourselves up for political suicide.

That may not be right, but that's how it is.

I don't think anyone wants to make it front and center. We just need to keep a plank that affirms our pro-life stance.
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« Reply #151 on: February 01, 2012, 01:13:17 pm »

I think we should advocate at the federal level for abortion to be a regional issue and at the regional level to ban/heavily restrict abortion. While we don't need to turn this into a one-issue party, I don't think we have much to gain by completely shying away from taking a stand. I don't think it's much of a secret that most of this party's membership is pro-life.
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MasterSanders
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« Reply #152 on: February 01, 2012, 01:16:25 pm »

I think we should advocate at the federal level for abortion to be a regional issue and at the regional level to ban/heavily restrict abortion. While we don't need to turn this into a one-issue party, I don't think we have much to gain by completely shying away from taking a stand. I don't think it's much of a secret that most of this party's membership is pro-life.

I agree. Reaffirm our pro-life stance while pushing for game reform.

You think we could entertain a plank that would grant members the right to join several caucuses?
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #153 on: February 01, 2012, 02:55:03 pm »

I think if we make abortion, especially at the federal level, a top issue of this party, unfortunately, we'll be setting ourselves up for political suicide.

That may not be right, but that's how it is.

I don't think anyone wants to make it front and center. We just need to keep a plank that affirms our pro-life stance.
I got the indication from ZuWo that abortion should be one of our main concerns.

I think abortion can be an issue for the Right To Life Caucus to pursue, but not the party. That's how the RPP pretty much handled it.
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ZuWo
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« Reply #154 on: February 01, 2012, 03:25:14 pm »

I think if we make abortion, especially at the federal level, a top issue of this party, unfortunately, we'll be setting ourselves up for political suicide.

That may not be right, but that's how it is.

I don't think anyone wants to make it front and center. We just need to keep a plank that affirms our pro-life stance.
I got the indication from ZuWo that abortion should be one of our main concerns.

I think abortion can be an issue for the Right To Life Caucus to pursue, but not the party. That's how the RPP pretty much handled it.

I believe our opposition to abortion should be a central issue to this party in that we unequivocally state in our platform that we oppose it, but I agree that it is an issue we should handle at the regional level.

I guess nearly 100% of the party members are pro-life anyway, so we should communicate that to the Atlasian people. This ain't the RPP, we should not aim at becoming a big tent party. Wink
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MasterSanders
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« Reply #155 on: February 01, 2012, 03:39:14 pm »

I think if we make abortion, especially at the federal level, a top issue of this party, unfortunately, we'll be setting ourselves up for political suicide.

That may not be right, but that's how it is.

I don't think anyone wants to make it front and center. We just need to keep a plank that affirms our pro-life stance.
I got the indication from ZuWo that abortion should be one of our main concerns.

I think abortion can be an issue for the Right To Life Caucus to pursue, but not the party. That's how the RPP pretty much handled it.

I believe our opposition to abortion should be a central issue to this party in that we unequivocally state in our platform that we oppose it, but I agree that it is an issue we should handle at the regional level.

I guess nearly 100% of the party members are pro-life anyway, so we should communicate that to the Atlasian people. This ain't the RPP, we should not aim at becoming a big tent party. Wink

ZuWo, I believe we could build a broad coalition if not a big tent if we present a bold platform of game reform. I agree with Isaac on pushing for.certain changes in the game, such as popular election of the vice president. As I mentioned earlier, an easier way to build multi-partisan coalitions on certain votes before the Senate would be to allow participants to be in several caucuses at once. We might create a sort of "Contract with Atlasia," showcasing our proposals to fix the system.
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« Reply #156 on: February 01, 2012, 03:45:13 pm »

I think if we make abortion, especially at the federal level, a top issue of this party, unfortunately, we'll be setting ourselves up for political suicide.

That may not be right, but that's how it is.

I don't think anyone wants to make it front and center. We just need to keep a plank that affirms our pro-life stance.
I got the indication from ZuWo that abortion should be one of our main concerns.

I think abortion can be an issue for the Right To Life Caucus to pursue, but not the party. That's how the RPP pretty much handled it.

I believe our opposition to abortion should be a central issue to this party in that we unequivocally state in our platform that we oppose it, but I agree that it is an issue we should handle at the regional level.

I guess nearly 100% of the party members are pro-life anyway, so we should communicate that to the Atlasian people. This ain't the RPP, we should not aim at becoming a big tent party. Wink

ZuWo, I believe we could build a broad coalition if not a big tent if we present a bold platform of game reform. I agree with Isaac on pushing for.certain changes in the game, such as popular election of the vice president. As I mentioned earlier, an easier way to build multi-partisan coalitions on certain votes before the Senate would be to allow participants to be in several caucuses at once. We might create a sort of "Contract with Atlasia," showcasing our proposals to fix the system.

I totally agree with your stance on game reform. I, too, support a separate election of the Vice President and would like to allow people to be members of several caucuses. Indeed, I believe game reform should be an important plank of our party. I just want to make sure we don't deny our conservative views on issues such as abortion just because most Atlasians disagree with us on them. Our pro-life stance should appear in our platform, that's all I am asking for.
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« Reply #157 on: February 01, 2012, 04:02:18 pm »

I totally agree with your stance on game reform. I, too, support a separate election of the Vice President and would like to allow people to be members of several caucuses. Indeed, I believe game reform should be an important plank of our party. I just want to make sure we don't deny our conservative views on issues such as abortion just because most Atlasians disagree with us on them. Our pro-life stance should appear in our platform, that's all I am asking for.

Absolutely.
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« Reply #158 on: February 01, 2012, 04:44:31 pm »

With all due respect, I have severe problems then being in a party that's focusing hard on social issues - I think it is a mistake, and its alienating a lot of people from the party. I wasn't under the impression this would be a "far-right" party, Atlasia-speaking.
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« Reply #159 on: February 01, 2012, 04:50:48 pm »

With all due respect, I have severe problems then being in a party that's focusing hard on social issues - I think it is a mistake, and its alienating a lot of people from the party. I wasn't under the impression this would be a "far-right" party, Atlasia-speaking.

We're talking about the issue of abortion here and discuss whether we should mention it in our platform or not. To my knowledge, there is no one in this party who is pro-choice. Why should we not state our opposition in the platform, then? Should we just keep quiet about our pro-life stances because we are afraid of alienating people outside of the party? I'm not saying abortion should be our sole concern, not at all. But it should be stated that a clear majority (if not everyone) in the party opposes abortion.

Additionally, there are numerous people outside of the Whig-Communitarian Party - my running mate is an example - who are pro-life as well. Opposition to abortion, while a minority stance in Atlasia, is not that "far right".
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #160 on: February 01, 2012, 04:53:30 pm »

Yeah, almost everyone here is pro-life, but we're not going to be able to expand as much as we want to with a focus on this issue. I with the Right To Life caucus just just focus on it, and not let it be part of the national platform. I didn't win my Presidential election (one of the only social conservatives to do so) by focusing on social issues - I won by my charm Wink and focus on game reform and economics.
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« Reply #161 on: February 01, 2012, 05:05:19 pm »

Yeah, almost everyone here is pro-life, but we're not going to be able to expand as much as we want to with a focus on this issue. I with the Right To Life caucus just just focus on it, and not let it be part of the national platform. I didn't win my Presidential election (one of the only social conservatives to do so) by focusing on social issues - I won by my charm Wink and focus on game reform and economics.

How much do "we" want to expand? If we attempt to become a party like the RPP which attracts basically everyone ranging from people on the far-right to centrists and even libertarians, we won't do the dissolution idea any favor. On the contrary, the goal of the dissolution process was to create smaller and ideologically more closely defined parties. That's why our platform should be meaningful and we must take a clear stand on the issues.

The national platform should represent all wings (Right to Life and Game Reform) of the party. Not including the issue of abortion in the platform would make as much sense as not including game reform issues.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2012, 05:09:57 pm by Assemblyman of the Mideast ZuWo »Logged
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« Reply #162 on: February 01, 2012, 05:39:34 pm »

Hold it!

ZuWo, I agree that we should include a pro-life plank in the platform.

Isaac, I agree that our single focus should not be on social issues.

Look, we can have our cake (pro -life plank), and eat it too (broad appeal through game reform).
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« Reply #163 on: February 01, 2012, 05:52:46 pm »

Agreed. MasterSanders hits it out of the ball park. I founded this party, if this helps anyone, intending it to be a center right party that really emphasized the communitarian aspect. I think we do need a broad platform, as I think a fairly wide ranging base is going to be necessary for survival. At this juncture the failure of this party would mean the failure of the Atlasian Right in the short term.

Talk about social issues, talk about morality- I would not support a platform without those. But let's focus upon strengthening communities and social capital, as we are the Whig-Communitarian Party, and benefits of doing so.

While I think concerns about us being a "far right" party are unfounded- it's virtually nonexistent here- I was looking to form a decidedly non-libertarian right-wing party.

But we can stick to our guns and be broad-based. We have to. We just have to do it right.

As for caucuses, I'd like to see a level of central control that inhibits the kind of independence that allowed them to break away from the JCP and RPP- at least in the short term while we sort things out. We shouldn't be running in different directions just quite yet. Smiley
« Last Edit: February 01, 2012, 05:55:12 pm by Simfan34 »Logged

The world is becoming globalized, but cosmopolitanism is being hijacked by the Davos Man. What choice is left besides nationalism? The thought is terrifying, to be honest.

I just hope Trump doesn't turn into some kind of Berlusconi-esque Teflon man.
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« Reply #164 on: February 01, 2012, 06:09:37 pm »

Besides a platform, could.we draw a list of practical, short-term proposals?
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« Reply #165 on: February 01, 2012, 07:09:11 pm »

Agreed. MasterSanders hits it out of the ball park. I founded this party, if this helps anyone, intending it to be a center right party that really emphasized the communitarian aspect. I think we do need a broad platform, as I think a fairly wide ranging base is going to be necessary for survival. At this juncture the failure of this party would mean the failure of the Atlasian Right in the short term.

Talk about social issues, talk about morality- I would not support a platform without those. But let's focus upon strengthening communities and social capital, as we are the Whig-Communitarian Party, and benefits of doing so.

While I think concerns about us being a "far right" party are unfounded- it's virtually nonexistent here- I was looking to form a decidedly non-libertarian right-wing party.

But we can stick to our guns and be broad-based. We have to. We just have to do it right.

As for caucuses, I'd like to see a level of central control that inhibits the kind of independence that allowed them to break away from the JCP and RPP- at least in the short term while we sort things out. We shouldn't be running in different directions just quite yet. Smiley

It's hilarious when you talk about forming a broad ranged coalition and at the same time yell out to a constituency that you don't want our votes.

Well you're welcome Simfan.  This party will never ever get my vote.
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« Reply #166 on: February 01, 2012, 07:11:20 pm »

^^^This is what I'm talking about.
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« Reply #167 on: February 01, 2012, 07:32:20 pm »

Mechaman wins Atlasia. You can all go home now.
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« Reply #168 on: February 01, 2012, 08:14:26 pm »

Hold it!

ZuWo, I agree that we should include a pro-life plank in the platform.

Isaac, I agree that our single focus should not be on social issues.

Look, we can have our cake (pro -life plank), and eat it too (broad appeal through game reform).

We should reach out with the ideas of game reform while not relenting on our plank of fighting for pro-life causes. Also what about the rights of the individual regions? If we are the successor of the RPP, this should be an important matter.

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« Reply #169 on: February 01, 2012, 09:36:10 pm »

Agreed. MasterSanders hits it out of the ball park. I founded this party, if this helps anyone, intending it to be a center right party that really emphasized the communitarian aspect. I think we do need a broad platform, as I think a fairly wide ranging base is going to be necessary for survival. At this juncture the failure of this party would mean the failure of the Atlasian Right in the short term.

Talk about social issues, talk about morality- I would not support a platform without those. But let's focus upon strengthening communities and social capital, as we are the Whig-Communitarian Party, and benefits of doing so.

While I think concerns about us being a "far right" party are unfounded- it's virtually nonexistent here- I was looking to form a decidedly non-libertarian right-wing party.

But we can stick to our guns and be broad-based. We have to. We just have to do it right.

As for caucuses, I'd like to see a level of central control that inhibits the kind of independence that allowed them to break away from the JCP and RPP- at least in the short term while we sort things out. We shouldn't be running in different directions just quite yet. Smiley

It's hilarious when you talk about forming a broad ranged coalition and at the same time yell out to a constituency that you don't want our votes.

Well you're welcome Simfan.  This party will never ever get my vote.

I have- literally- been saying this since the first post. The economically conservative and  socially libertarian right is being represented by the IFP and the Moderate Party. This party was founded on representing another group. Now I think that group covers a large body of Atlasians. And I think that we should appeal to that body. But I don't think this party should contort itself into something it's not.
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The world is becoming globalized, but cosmopolitanism is being hijacked by the Davos Man. What choice is left besides nationalism? The thought is terrifying, to be honest.

I just hope Trump doesn't turn into some kind of Berlusconi-esque Teflon man.
CLARENCE 2015!
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« Reply #170 on: February 01, 2012, 09:40:41 pm »

Our party needs to oppose the anti-conscription bill in the Senate... it weakens our national defense capability considerably
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« Reply #171 on: February 01, 2012, 09:46:35 pm »

Our party needs to oppose the anti-conscription bill in the Senate... it weakens our national defense capability considerably

Why is the idea of a volunteer military a bad one? You would gain a stronger and more content military in regards of morale. What we need is stronger personal morality instilled in our fighting men and women.
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Simfan34
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« Reply #172 on: February 01, 2012, 09:48:03 pm »

Our party needs to oppose the anti-conscription bill in the Senate... it weakens our national defense capability considerably

Why is the idea of a volunteer military a bad one? You would gain a stronger and more content military in regards of morale. What we need is stronger personal morality instilled in our fighting men and women.

I would support the illegalization of conscription, with the exception of cases of war. The defense of the nation in times of war is a priority- if morale suffered, it would be, in my mind, a suitable sacrifice for our security.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2012, 09:50:36 pm by Simfan34 »Logged

The world is becoming globalized, but cosmopolitanism is being hijacked by the Davos Man. What choice is left besides nationalism? The thought is terrifying, to be honest.

I just hope Trump doesn't turn into some kind of Berlusconi-esque Teflon man.
CLARENCE 2015!
clarence
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« Reply #173 on: February 01, 2012, 09:50:49 pm »

Our party needs to oppose the anti-conscription bill in the Senate... it weakens our national defense capability considerably

Why is the idea of a volunteer military a bad one? You would gain a stronger and more content military in regards of morale. What we need is stronger personal morality instilled in our fighting men and women.
Conscription is a necessary tool to have at our disposal

And what do you mean by your last statement... ?
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« Reply #174 on: February 01, 2012, 09:58:35 pm »

^^^This is what I'm talking about.

My brain hurts...

Could we amend the law that would allow for wartime conscription?
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