Obama's Catholic hospital decision

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

This is absolutely asinine, and seriously concerning. What in the world does Obama think anybody gains from this decision? Its only effect is to piss people off.

[Torie]

What's wrong with just requiring Catholic hospitals to refer out patients seeking birth control products?

[Sbane]

There was no reason at all as to why this needed to be done. Sebelius and Obama did it just because they could. No one is going to stop them. They just argue that religious institutions are not exampt from the law. Well they wrote the f***ing law on purpose the screw the Church over. The Obama administration could very easily have given the Church an exemption. They didn't seem to have any trouble with exempting the Amish from the healthcare bill since they don't believe in buying insurance on religious grounds.

It will be a cold day in hell before I ever vote for that man. But then again it's been that way for a long time...

This does not cover abortions, just contraception. I would understand the outrage if they were forced to cover abortions for their workers, but birth control? Come on now....it's not even plan B. And of course most catholics agree with the rational view on contraception (excluding plan B).

What's wrong with just requiring Catholic hospitals to refer out patients seeking birth control products?

Well, if it was just about patients it would be something else but this is about health plans offered to their workers. There is no reason why you shouldn't have birth control (not plan B) covered under your health plan if you work for one.

Who the hell goes to a hospital to get birth control anyways?

[patrick1]

You want to fire up the base? I guarantee this will be in every sermon across the nation on Sunday morning and we will vote for the Republican nominee- whoever it is. If Romney wins, I do not like the man but I will vote for him proudly after this decision!

Hmmm, I have a tough time believing I'll hear about this on Sunday. I'll let you all know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61wj4tJICcc

This time I don't think the Catholic vote will even be close!

You seem to be under the delusion that most American Catholics agree with their church on birth control, when it's absolutely overwhelming in the other other direction.

Overly dramatic much? Religion does not dictate what the law should be, it's as simple as that.

^^^^^^^^^
But most Republican are Christians first and American last. Why do they hate America?

Hey now, so am I. That's why I won't say the Pledge of Allegiance, which most Republicans certainly wouldn't approve of.

BTW if I remember what Sebelius said on The Daily Show, the fines employers pay over not offering insurance would be used to fund the exchanges that their employees can then use.

BRTD, from a political perspective no one cares what they talk about at your church.  You just don't have the #'s to matter.  Even if many Catholics or nominal Catholics could not be bothered by this, it still matters politically.  If only 10%, you are still talking about millions of votes and in a swing demographic.  This was spoken about from the pulpit and was in the church bulletins:

UNITED STATES CONFERENCE OF
CATHOLIC BISHOPS
Department of Communications
PRESS RELEASE
January 20, 2012
The Catholic bishops of the United States
called “literally unconscionable” a decision by the Obama Administration
to continue to demand that sterilization, abortifacients
and contraception be included in virtually all health plans.
Today's announcement means that this mandate and its very narrow
exemption will not change at all; instead there will only be a
delay in enforcement against some employers.
“In effect, the president is saying we have a year to figure
out how to violate our consciences,” said Cardinal-designate
Timothy M. Dolan, archbishop of New York and president of the
U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.
The cardinal-designate continued, “To force American
citizens to choose between violating their consciences and forgoing
their healthcare is literally unconscionable. It is as much an attack
on access to health care as on religious freedom. Historically
this represents a challenge and a compromise of our religious
liberty."
The HHS rule requires that sterilization and contraception
– including controversial abortifacients – be included among
“preventive services” coverage in almost every healthcare plan
available to Americans. “The government should not force Americans
to act as if pregnancy is a disease to be prevented at all
costs,” added Cardinal-designate Dolan.
At issue, the U.S. bishops and other religious leaders insist,
is the survival of a cornerstone constitutionally protected freedom
that ensures respect for the conscience of Catholics and all other
Americans.
“This is nothing less than a direct attack on religion and
First Amendment rights,” said Franciscan Sister Jane Marie
Klein, chairperson of the board at Franciscan Alliance, Inc., a
system of 13 Catholic hospitals. “I have hundreds of employees
who will be upset and confused by this edict. I cannot understand
it at all.”
Daughter of Charity Sister Carol Keehan, president and
chief executive officer of the Catholic Health Association of the
United States, voiced disappointment with the decision. Catholic
hospitals serve one out of six people who seek hospital care annually.
“This was a missed opportunity to be clear on appropriate
conscience protection,” Sister Keehan said.
Cardinal-designate Dolan urged that the HHS mandate be
overturned.
“The Obama administration has now drawn an unprecedented
line in the sand,” he said. “The Catholic bishops are committed
to working with our fellow Americans to reform the law
and change this unjust regulation. We will continue to study all
the implications of this troubling decision.”
Please beware of this mandate of vital importance regarding
the Administration's decision to implement the
HHS contraception mandate. Also note the video of
Archbishop Dolan's reaction (http://bcove.me/
ob5itz9v) Please contact the Administration (http://
www.whitehouse.gov/contact) to express your opposition
to this, and contact your Congressional representative
(http://www.nchla.org/contcong.asp) as well.
Let us keep this in our prayers. God bless

[TJ in Oregon]

To clarify a point that has been brought up earlier, the mandate includes Plan B birth control that can be used as an abortificant if taken in a pregnancy. Thus many sources are claiming that the mandate does and doesn't include abortion (since it does not include abortion by surgical proceedure). So yes, this is a little more than condoms.

[patrick1]

There was no reason at all as to why this needed to be done. Sebelius and Obama did it just because they could. No one is going to stop them. They just argue that religious institutions are not exampt from the law. Well they wrote the f***ing law on purpose the screw the Church over. The Obama administration could very easily have given the Church an exemption. They didn't seem to have any trouble with exempting the Amish from the healthcare bill since they don't believe in buying insurance on religious grounds.

It will be a cold day in hell before I ever vote for that man. But then again it's been that way for a long time...

This does not cover abortions, just contraception. I would understand the outrage if they were forced to cover abortions for their workers, but birth control? Come on now....it's not even plan B. And of course most catholics agree with the rational view on contraception (excluding plan B).

What's wrong with just requiring Catholic hospitals to refer out patients seeking birth control products?

Well, if it was just about patients it would be something else but this is about health plans offered to their workers. There is no reason why you shouldn't have birth control (not plan B) covered under your health plan if you work for one.

Who the hell goes to a hospital to get birth control anyways?

This ruling includes 'plan B' and sterilizations.

[afleitch]

To clarify a point that has been brought up earlier, the mandate includes Plan B birth control that can be used as an abortificant if taken in a pregnancy. Thus many sources are claiming that the mandate does and doesn't include abortion (since it does not include abortion by surgical proceedure). So yes, this is a little more than condoms.

Again a significant number of Catholics would not consider 'morning after' methods of contraception an abortificant. Putting them on par with later term surgical abortions does some Catholic pro-lifers no good to their cause.

[Sbane]

To clarify a point that has been brought up earlier, the mandate includes Plan B birth control that can be used as an abortificant if taken in a pregnancy. Thus many sources are claiming that the mandate does and doesn't include abortion (since it does not include abortion by surgical proceedure). So yes, this is a little more than condoms.

Ok, didn't know about plan B. Of course plan B is not an abortion but whatever....It would been better if this had been restricted to just birth control pills.

[Sbane]

And if the Catholic Church now drops health coverage for their workers, they will bleed talent. Those who are in demand enough will leave leading to a lower quality of care. Of course they already lose a lot of talent due to their archaic rules on birth control pills. Trust me, I know.

But protecting the rights of women workers is important too. I wish they didn't cover plan B so the line in the sand could have been clearer. It is absolutely wrong to not cover birth control. Completely and utterly wrong.

[memphis]

So they can either cover birth control or drop insurance for all their workers. And they think the latter is the moral thing to do? Strange belief system they have.

[Mechaman]

I don't know what I find more surprising:

1) The Catholic outrage at over friggin birth control pills,
or
2) The Democratic Party finding more ways to piss off a group that was only a few decades ago die hard Democratic.

[krazen1211]

If only it was a law forcing Muslims to eat pork. The left would be all up in arms.

[krazen1211]

It will be a cold day in hell before I ever vote for that man. But then again it's been that way for a long time...

This will be tossed at the Supreme Court.

[Insula Dei]

To clarify a point that has been brought up earlier, the mandate includes Plan B birth control that can be used as an abortificant if taken in a pregnancy. Thus many sources are claiming that the mandate does and doesn't include abortion (since it does not include abortion by surgical proceedure). So yes, this is a little more than condoms.

Again a significant number of Catholics would not consider 'morning after' methods of contraception an abortificant. Putting them on par with later term surgical abortions does some Catholic pro-lifers no good to their cause.

I'd disagree. Excluding the 'Morning After' Pill from the category 'Abortion' by extention defeats the argument against First Term Abortions. Nor should one allow pragmatical considerations ('Gee, this really won't play welll with your average Joe') to affect one's position on a morally loaded issue like this.

Considering this, I now officially would be unhappy with this decision. Still, Catholic hospitals have an even stronger obligation to pay for their employees' healthcare.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

It will be a cold day in hell before I ever vote for that man. But then again it's been that way for a long time...

This will be tossed at the Supreme Court.

I sincerely hope it will be thrown out before that, since if Catholic hospitals are seriously considering not providing health coverage to their workers, well...that is really, really, really not good news otherwise.

[cinyc]

So they can either cover birth control or drop insurance for all their workers. And they think the latter is the moral thing to do? Strange belief system they have.

You're missing option C: Sue the government to overturn Obama's idiotic decision that violates the separation between church and state.  

Birth control pills, especially Plan B, shouldn't be required to be covered under health insurance plans to begin with.  If they are, then why aren't condoms for men covered, too?   To not do so is arguably sexist and homophobic.

[Torie]

There was no reason at all as to why this needed to be done. Sebelius and Obama did it just because they could. No one is going to stop them. They just argue that religious institutions are not exampt from the law. Well they wrote the f***ing law on purpose the screw the Church over. The Obama administration could very easily have given the Church an exemption. They didn't seem to have any trouble with exempting the Amish from the healthcare bill since they don't believe in buying insurance on religious grounds.

It will be a cold day in hell before I ever vote for that man. But then again it's been that way for a long time...

This does not cover abortions, just contraception. I would understand the outrage if they were forced to cover abortions for their workers, but birth control? Come on now....it's not even plan B. And of course most catholics agree with the rational view on contraception (excluding plan B).

What's wrong with just requiring Catholic hospitals to refer out patients seeking birth control products?

Well, if it was just about patients it would be something else but this is about health plans offered to their workers. There is no reason why you shouldn't have birth control (not plan B) covered under your health plan if you work for one.

Who the hell goes to a hospital to get birth control anyways?

So why can't the patients go elsewhere then under their plan, or is their plan limited to some Catholic Hospital?  I don't get it. The only place where I see a problem is if there is some emergency situation, where for some reason the Catholic Hospital considers it against Catholic doctrine to handle. I guess an emergency abortion where the health of the mother short of life threatening would be an example. The birth control angle escapes me entirely however. Any reasonable balancing test would I think defer to the hospital's preferences.  Or require the health plan to offer other health service providers for birth control, where the ones they have refuse to provide it.

Make sense?

[memphis]

So they can either cover birth control or drop insurance for all their workers. And they think the latter is the moral thing to do? Strange belief system they have.

You're missing option C: Sue the government to overturn Obama's idiotic decision that violates the separation between church and state.  

Birth control pills, especially Plan B, shouldn't be required to be covered under health insurance plans to begin with.  If they are, then why aren't condoms for men covered, too?   To not do so is arguably sexist and homophobic.

Probably because condoms don't require a prescription. Perhaps if you'd ever had to buy any, you'd know that.

[krazen1211]

It will be a cold day in hell before I ever vote for that man. But then again it's been that way for a long time...

This will be tossed at the Supreme Court.

I sincerely hope it will be thrown out before that, since if Catholic hospitals are seriously considering not providing health coverage to their workers, well...that is really, really, really not good news otherwise.

Well, that's up to Obama. I'm just glad that he's delivering more votes to the Republican party, and for no reason at all.

[krazen1211]

And if the Catholic Church now drops health coverage for their workers, they will bleed talent. Those who are in demand enough will leave leading to a lower quality of care. Of course they already lose a lot of talent due to their archaic rules on birth control pills. Trust me, I know.

But protecting the rights of women workers is important too. I wish they didn't cover plan B so the line in the sand could have been clearer. It is absolutely wrong to not cover birth control. Completely and utterly wrong.

Birth control is not exactly expensive. Of all the aspects of compensation to be a stickler about, it would be quite funny indeed if that was one of them!

[Beet]

Is it against Church doctrine to promote writings contrary to the teachings of the Church?

[cinyc]

So they can either cover birth control or drop insurance for all their workers. And they think the latter is the moral thing to do? Strange belief system they have.

You're missing option C: Sue the government to overturn Obama's idiotic decision that violates the separation between church and state.  

Birth control pills, especially Plan B, shouldn't be required to be covered under health insurance plans to begin with.  If they are, then why aren't condoms for men covered, too?   To not do so is arguably sexist and homophobic.

Probably because condoms don't require a prescription. Perhaps if you'd ever had to buy any, you'd know that.

Things that do not require a prescription can almost always be bought with one in order to get reimbursement from your health insurance plan.   And non-prescription items might be covered in some circumstances.

Like I said, birth control pills shouldn't be required to be covered anyway.  They are not a medical necessity in most cases.  

[Sbane]

There was no reason at all as to why this needed to be done. Sebelius and Obama did it just because they could. No one is going to stop them. They just argue that religious institutions are not exampt from the law. Well they wrote the f***ing law on purpose the screw the Church over. The Obama administration could very easily have given the Church an exemption. They didn't seem to have any trouble with exempting the Amish from the healthcare bill since they don't believe in buying insurance on religious grounds.

It will be a cold day in hell before I ever vote for that man. But then again it's been that way for a long time...

This does not cover abortions, just contraception. I would understand the outrage if they were forced to cover abortions for their workers, but birth control? Come on now....it's not even plan B. And of course most catholics agree with the rational view on contraception (excluding plan B).

What's wrong with just requiring Catholic hospitals to refer out patients seeking birth control products?

Well, if it was just about patients it would be something else but this is about health plans offered to their workers. There is no reason why you shouldn't have birth control (not plan B) covered under your health plan if you work for one.

Who the hell goes to a hospital to get birth control anyways?

So why can't the patients go elsewhere then under their plan, or is their plan limited to some Catholic Hospital?  I don't get it. The only place where I see a problem is if there is some emergency situation, where for some reason the Catholic Hospital considers it against Catholic doctrine to handle. I guess an emergency abortion where the health of the mother short of life threatening would be an example. The birth control angle escapes me entirely however. Any reasonable balancing test would I think defer to the hospital's preferences.  Or require the health plan to offer other health service providers for birth control, where the ones they have refuse to provide it.

Make sense?

The catholic church does not want to pay for it any way, including within their hospital employees health plans. No one is forcing the hospitals to perform abortions or dispense Plan B, birth control pills or condoms.

[HST1948]

God everyone on this board is an idiot. Get a degree in something health care related before you spew the vermin comes into your mind on to a public forum.  (Report me) Im just going to address two issues I have (of many issues I found).

1) A lot of women (many of my patients and family) take birth control for medical reasons other than contraception, like IBS, PBS, and Chronic Pelvic pain to name a few which most insurance plans will not cover even for these reasons. 

2) If you knew anything about the science of the morning after pill you would know that it is not an antiabortion.  All the morning after pill does is secretes large amounts of progesterone that prevents ovulation and PREVENTS FERTILIZATION.  Just to repeat the morning after pill prevents fertilization, it does not abort a fertilized egg.   

If you didn't understand some of the terms I used in my post you probably shouldn't be commenting.

[Sbane]

And if the Catholic Church now drops health coverage for their workers, they will bleed talent. Those who are in demand enough will leave leading to a lower quality of care. Of course they already lose a lot of talent due to their archaic rules on birth control pills. Trust me, I know.

But protecting the rights of women workers is important too. I wish they didn't cover plan B so the line in the sand could have been clearer. It is absolutely wrong to not cover birth control. Completely and utterly wrong.

Birth control is not exactly expensive. Of all the aspects of compensation to be a stickler about, it would be quite funny indeed if that was one of them!

Haha, true. People bitch about it all the time though. I know that for a fact but I doubt someone is going to not accept a job because of it. Although if you have a choice....

And if the Catholic church decides to drop their health plan, they will lose talented people. That makes sense, doesn't it?