Obama's Catholic hospital decision

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Good decision by Obama. Just because you may work at a catholic hospital shouldn't mean you don't get basic medical care.

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There was no reason at all as to why this needed to be done. Sebelius and Obama did it just because they could. No one is going to stop them. They just argue that religious institutions are not exampt from the law. Well they wrote the f***ing law on purpose the screw the Church over. The Obama administration could very easily have given the Church an exemption. They didn't seem to have any trouble with exempting the Amish from the healthcare bill since they don't believe in buying insurance on religious grounds.

It will be a cold day in hell before I ever vote for that man. But then again it's been that way for a long time...

This does not cover abortions, just contraception. I would understand the outrage if they were forced to cover abortions for their workers, but birth control? Come on now....it's not even plan B. And of course most catholics agree with the rational view on contraception (excluding plan B).

What's wrong with just requiring Catholic hospitals to refer out patients seeking birth control products?

Well, if it was just about patients it would be something else but this is about health plans offered to their workers. There is no reason why you shouldn't have birth control (not plan B) covered under your health plan if you work for one.

Who the hell goes to a hospital to get birth control anyways?

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To clarify a point that has been brought up earlier, the mandate includes Plan B birth control that can be used as an abortificant if taken in a pregnancy. Thus many sources are claiming that the mandate does and doesn't include abortion (since it does not include abortion by surgical proceedure). So yes, this is a little more than condoms.

Ok, didn't know about plan B. Of course plan B is not an abortion but whatever....It would been better if this had been restricted to just birth control pills.

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And if the Catholic Church now drops health coverage for their workers, they will bleed talent. Those who are in demand enough will leave leading to a lower quality of care. Of course they already lose a lot of talent due to their archaic rules on birth control pills. Trust me, I know.

But protecting the rights of women workers is important too. I wish they didn't cover plan B so the line in the sand could have been clearer. It is absolutely wrong to not cover birth control. Completely and utterly wrong.

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There was no reason at all as to why this needed to be done. Sebelius and Obama did it just because they could. No one is going to stop them. They just argue that religious institutions are not exampt from the law. Well they wrote the f***ing law on purpose the screw the Church over. The Obama administration could very easily have given the Church an exemption. They didn't seem to have any trouble with exempting the Amish from the healthcare bill since they don't believe in buying insurance on religious grounds.

It will be a cold day in hell before I ever vote for that man. But then again it's been that way for a long time...

This does not cover abortions, just contraception. I would understand the outrage if they were forced to cover abortions for their workers, but birth control? Come on now....it's not even plan B. And of course most catholics agree with the rational view on contraception (excluding plan B).

What's wrong with just requiring Catholic hospitals to refer out patients seeking birth control products?

Well, if it was just about patients it would be something else but this is about health plans offered to their workers. There is no reason why you shouldn't have birth control (not plan B) covered under your health plan if you work for one.

Who the hell goes to a hospital to get birth control anyways?

So why can't the patients go elsewhere then under their plan, or is their plan limited to some Catholic Hospital?  I don't get it. The only place where I see a problem is if there is some emergency situation, where for some reason the Catholic Hospital considers it against Catholic doctrine to handle. I guess an emergency abortion where the health of the mother short of life threatening would be an example. The birth control angle escapes me entirely however. Any reasonable balancing test would I think defer to the hospital's preferences.  Or require the health plan to offer other health service providers for birth control, where the ones they have refuse to provide it.

Make sense?

The catholic church does not want to pay for it any way, including within their hospital employees health plans. No one is forcing the hospitals to perform abortions or dispense Plan B, birth control pills or condoms.

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And if the Catholic Church now drops health coverage for their workers, they will bleed talent. Those who are in demand enough will leave leading to a lower quality of care. Of course they already lose a lot of talent due to their archaic rules on birth control pills. Trust me, I know.

But protecting the rights of women workers is important too. I wish they didn't cover plan B so the line in the sand could have been clearer. It is absolutely wrong to not cover birth control. Completely and utterly wrong.

Birth control is not exactly expensive. Of all the aspects of compensation to be a stickler about, it would be quite funny indeed if that was one of them!

Haha, true. People bitch about it all the time though. I know that for a fact but I doubt someone is going to not accept a job because of it. Although if you have a choice....

And if the Catholic church decides to drop their health plan, they will lose talented people. That makes sense, doesn't it?

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1) A lot of women (many of my patients and family) take birth control for medical reasons other than contraception, like IBS, PBS, and Chronic Pelvic pain to name a few which most insurance plans will not cover even for these reasons. 

I think the Catholic church does cover BCP's for conditions like PCOS and the ones you mentioned. Could be wrong though.

And yeah morning after pills aren't abortions but try convincing some strong headed anti abortion activist of that. The opposition to plain birth control is just stunning to me. They must surely realize it would only lead to more abortions? And the opposition to sterilization....absolutely stunning.

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What I don't understand is why health insurance would be provided through an employer in the first place. How are they at all connected?

True. Although today, on average, about 70-80% of insurance premiums are paid for by the employer. Something to think about.

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There was no reason at all as to why this needed to be done. Sebelius and Obama did it just because they could. No one is going to stop them. They just argue that religious institutions are not exampt from the law. Well they wrote the f***ing law on purpose the screw the Church over. The Obama administration could very easily have given the Church an exemption. They didn't seem to have any trouble with exempting the Amish from the healthcare bill since they don't believe in buying insurance on religious grounds.

It will be a cold day in hell before I ever vote for that man. But then again it's been that way for a long time...

This does not cover abortions, just contraception. I would understand the outrage if they were forced to cover abortions for their workers, but birth control? Come on now....it's not even plan B. And of course most catholics agree with the rational view on contraception (excluding plan B).

What's wrong with just requiring Catholic hospitals to refer out patients seeking birth control products?

Well, if it was just about patients it would be something else but this is about health plans offered to their workers. There is no reason why you shouldn't have birth control (not plan B) covered under your health plan if you work for one.

Who the hell goes to a hospital to get birth control anyways?

So why can't the patients go elsewhere then under their plan, or is their plan limited to some Catholic Hospital?  I don't get it. The only place where I see a problem is if there is some emergency situation, where for some reason the Catholic Hospital considers it against Catholic doctrine to handle. I guess an emergency abortion where the health of the mother short of life threatening would be an example. The birth control angle escapes me entirely however. Any reasonable balancing test would I think defer to the hospital's preferences.  Or require the health plan to offer other health service providers for birth control, where the ones they have refuse to provide it.

Make sense?

The catholic church does not want to pay for it any way, including within their hospital employees health plans. No one is forcing the hospitals to perform abortions or dispense Plan B, birth control pills or condoms.

Yes, I understand now. Obamacare required all health plans to cover birth control services without a co-pay or deductible. That was silly. Why does Obamacare micro-manage that way the details of health insurance plans?  Given that it does, the finesse is to require the employers to pay the employees a bit more in pay, so that if they choose, that extra bit will allow them to purchase the additional coverage. That is financially neutral. Letting the employers just offer more limited coverage is not.

That is my initial cut at it anyway.

Yes, that would be fine but would the Catholic church accept it?

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It's not just  those who oppose birth control that are upset about this of course.

Imagine, once was a time respecting people's rights of conscience was considered the liberal position.

If Catholic hospitals were being forced to dispense BCP's or MAP's or perform sterilization procedures, I would understand. This is about health insurance provided to their workers who work in their hospitals, not their churches.

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Looks like an excellent way to diffuse the situation. There is no reason to force anyone to do something, no matter how ridiculous the rest of us may think it is, if there is a way around it. There is a press conference in about 15 minutes with Obama explaining it. I will definitely be watching it.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/02/10/white-house-to-announce-accommodation-on-contraceptive-policy/

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Apparently the compromise is that insurers rather than employers would pay for birth control if an employer objects to paying for birth control on religious grounds.

 Brave new world, we're living in, boys.  Brave New World.  

Calm down Angus, it's just a little birth control. And I am sure the insurance company will get compensated for it. It's not as if birth control costs that much when you look at the big picture of our health care system. They would only need to increase premiums just a tad and they could cover it. And the catholic church wouldn't have to feel icky. Though it remains to be seen how exactly they do it.

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Obama speaking right now.

http://video.foxnews.com/video-live-streaming.html?video_id=1155606219001

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Calm down Angus, it's just a little birth control. And I am sure the insurance company will get compensated for it. It's not as if birth control costs that much when you look at the big picture of our health care system. They would only need to increase premiums just a tad and they could cover it. And the catholic church wouldn't have to feel icky. Though it remains to be seen how exactly they do it.

Am I being too ideological? 

The talking heads spin it as a "religious freedom issue" versus a "health care issue."  Frankly, it's not either of those aspects that bother me, but the fact that a US President can usurp such great authority.  I'm just not seeing that in the job description as detailed in the US Constitution. 

And, while we're at it, no I don't like taking off my shoes at airports, thankyouverymuch.

Yes, I hate taking off my shoes too. I watched Obama's little speech, and learned nothing, except that America loves religion or something. The details of how this will all work out will need to be found out later.

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I hope it becomes a political football. This is absolutely ridiculous. It's just birth control. Let them make this into a big deal, no ones going to care. And it can only backfire. At the same time you have racists speaking at CPAC and no one seems to be concerned about that. What a f'in joke.

Oh and plan B is not an abortifacient. It's not RU-486. These bunches of retards commenting on something they know nothing about is insane. The catholic church should stick to the bible.  They don't get to decide what is an abortifacient or what the mechanism of action of a drug is, medical professionals do.

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Anyone who still cares now that Obama can claim both that he backed down and scored a victory for women's health advocates was already committed to voting Republican. This is not abortion where there is downside to Dems past a certain point. Obama looks to have won this round.

Seriously, if this goes on any longer, I would not feel even a little bad if some Super PAC starts running ads that the Republican nominee is against contraception. And hopefully they flood the internet with that message. Maybe then the bunch of idiots will learn their lesson.

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To induce abortion you need implantation. Plan b can do nothing if implantation has already occurred unlike abortifacients such as RU-486.

In terms of politics, you can easily run ads targeting younger women voters stating Obama made it cheaper to get contraception and the republicans are against it. I suspect it will motivate as many voters as the policy turns off hardcore Catholics who were thinking of voting democrat. I suspect most in that category are Hispanics and I doubt they will be voting Republican.

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I hope it becomes a political football. This is absolutely ridiculous. It's just birth control. Let them make this into a big deal, no ones going to care. And it can only backfire. At the same time you have racists speaking at CPAC and no one seems to be concerned about that. What a f'in joke.

Oh and plan B is not an abortifacient. It's not RU-486. These bunches of retards commenting on something they know nothing about is insane. The catholic church should stick to the bible. They don't get to decide what is an abortifacient or what the mechanism of action of a drug is, medical professionals do.

lol