Obama's Catholic hospital decision

[patrick1]

You want to fire up the base? I guarantee this will be in every sermon across the nation on Sunday morning and we will vote for the Republican nominee- whoever it is. If Romney wins, I do not like the man but I will vote for him proudly after this decision!

Hmmm, I have a tough time believing I'll hear about this on Sunday. I'll let you all know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61wj4tJICcc

This time I don't think the Catholic vote will even be close!

You seem to be under the delusion that most American Catholics agree with their church on birth control, when it's absolutely overwhelming in the other other direction.

Overly dramatic much? Religion does not dictate what the law should be, it's as simple as that.

^^^^^^^^^
But most Republican are Christians first and American last. Why do they hate America?

Hey now, so am I. That's why I won't say the Pledge of Allegiance, which most Republicans certainly wouldn't approve of.

BTW if I remember what Sebelius said on The Daily Show, the fines employers pay over not offering insurance would be used to fund the exchanges that their employees can then use.

BRTD, from a political perspective no one cares what they talk about at your church.  You just don't have the #'s to matter.  Even if many Catholics or nominal Catholics could not be bothered by this, it still matters politically.  If only 10%, you are still talking about millions of votes and in a swing demographic.  This was spoken about from the pulpit and was in the church bulletins:

UNITED STATES CONFERENCE OF
CATHOLIC BISHOPS
Department of Communications
PRESS RELEASE
January 20, 2012
The Catholic bishops of the United States
called “literally unconscionable” a decision by the Obama Administration
to continue to demand that sterilization, abortifacients
and contraception be included in virtually all health plans.
Today's announcement means that this mandate and its very narrow
exemption will not change at all; instead there will only be a
delay in enforcement against some employers.
“In effect, the president is saying we have a year to figure
out how to violate our consciences,” said Cardinal-designate
Timothy M. Dolan, archbishop of New York and president of the
U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.
The cardinal-designate continued, “To force American
citizens to choose between violating their consciences and forgoing
their healthcare is literally unconscionable. It is as much an attack
on access to health care as on religious freedom. Historically
this represents a challenge and a compromise of our religious
liberty."
The HHS rule requires that sterilization and contraception
– including controversial abortifacients – be included among
“preventive services” coverage in almost every healthcare plan
available to Americans. “The government should not force Americans
to act as if pregnancy is a disease to be prevented at all
costs,” added Cardinal-designate Dolan.
At issue, the U.S. bishops and other religious leaders insist,
is the survival of a cornerstone constitutionally protected freedom
that ensures respect for the conscience of Catholics and all other
Americans.
“This is nothing less than a direct attack on religion and
First Amendment rights,” said Franciscan Sister Jane Marie
Klein, chairperson of the board at Franciscan Alliance, Inc., a
system of 13 Catholic hospitals. “I have hundreds of employees
who will be upset and confused by this edict. I cannot understand
it at all.”
Daughter of Charity Sister Carol Keehan, president and
chief executive officer of the Catholic Health Association of the
United States, voiced disappointment with the decision. Catholic
hospitals serve one out of six people who seek hospital care annually.
“This was a missed opportunity to be clear on appropriate
conscience protection,” Sister Keehan said.
Cardinal-designate Dolan urged that the HHS mandate be
overturned.
“The Obama administration has now drawn an unprecedented
line in the sand,” he said. “The Catholic bishops are committed
to working with our fellow Americans to reform the law
and change this unjust regulation. We will continue to study all
the implications of this troubling decision.”
Please beware of this mandate of vital importance regarding
the Administration's decision to implement the
HHS contraception mandate. Also note the video of
Archbishop Dolan's reaction (http://bcove.me/
ob5itz9v) Please contact the Administration (http://
www.whitehouse.gov/contact) to express your opposition
to this, and contact your Congressional representative
(http://www.nchla.org/contcong.asp) as well.
Let us keep this in our prayers. God bless

[patrick1]

There was no reason at all as to why this needed to be done. Sebelius and Obama did it just because they could. No one is going to stop them. They just argue that religious institutions are not exampt from the law. Well they wrote the f***ing law on purpose the screw the Church over. The Obama administration could very easily have given the Church an exemption. They didn't seem to have any trouble with exempting the Amish from the healthcare bill since they don't believe in buying insurance on religious grounds.

It will be a cold day in hell before I ever vote for that man. But then again it's been that way for a long time...

This does not cover abortions, just contraception. I would understand the outrage if they were forced to cover abortions for their workers, but birth control? Come on now....it's not even plan B. And of course most catholics agree with the rational view on contraception (excluding plan B).

What's wrong with just requiring Catholic hospitals to refer out patients seeking birth control products?

Well, if it was just about patients it would be something else but this is about health plans offered to their workers. There is no reason why you shouldn't have birth control (not plan B) covered under your health plan if you work for one.

Who the hell goes to a hospital to get birth control anyways?

This ruling includes 'plan B' and sterilizations.

[patrick1]

As a side note, what are the theological justifications for opposition to birth control? I'm not terribly familiar with this sort of thing.

"In 1968, Pope Paul VI issued his landmark encyclical letter Humanae Vitae (Latin, "Human Life"), which reemphasized the Church’s constant teaching that it is always intrinsically wrong to use contraception to prevent new human beings from coming into existence.

Contraception is "any action which, either in anticipation of the conjugal act [sexual intercourse], or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible" (Humanae Vitae 14). This includes sterilization, condoms and other barrier methods, spermicides, coitus interruptus (withdrawal method), the Pill, and all other such methods. "

The basic, oversimplified teaching is that the all sexual acts should be open to life and within the sacrament of marriage.  This underpins the position on a range of issues including premarital sex, abortion, contraception, homosexuality and masturbation.

The belief is rooted in both scripture and Christian>>>Catholic tradition.  To pick some sites out of the air w/o vetting

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/contraception.html
http://onemoresoul.com/contraception/church-teaching-contraception-abortion/what-does-the-bible-say-about-contraception.html

[patrick1]

BRTD, you know that there are millions of church going Catholics who are Democrats or Independents who lean toward the Democrats. (Further, the issue is about more than birth control.) It is not just about whether these people will now vote for Romney but also whether they will bother showing up to the polls to cast their votes for Obama.

I personally don't think that this will have that big of an impact politically, and as it stands now I still think Obama will win handily in November.  Tbs, I think this does raise some more interesting legal questions on the governments' coercive powers in relation to religious organizations.

[patrick1]

You want to fire up the base? I guarantee this will be in every sermon across the nation on Sunday morning and we will vote for the Republican nominee- whoever it is. If Romney wins, I do not like the man but I will vote for him proudly after this decision!

Nope! The title was "Loving God and Your Neighbors" and went over Acts 10 and showing hospitality and kindness to the people actually around you in your life. Something the Catholic Church should heed actually...

BRTD, how many schools, hospitals or multi-billion dollar charitable organizations does your church run?  Why would they talk about something that really has no affect on them?  This was an issue because the RCC employs a lot of people, and the bill is putting them in a position to fund things that are against doctrine- no matter what individual congregants may think about it.

[patrick1]

There are many people who work for a Catholic org that are not Catholic.  I personally had Jewish, Protestant and non religious teachers growing up.  This isn't about a campaign to get rid of birth control, morning after or sterilizations for their employees.  The substance of this particular argument is that they do not want to pay for and thereby promote something they find morally objectionable.