Race in 2012
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CLARENCE 2015!
clarence
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« on: February 06, 2012, 07:24:29 AM »

I just finished reading this very interesting article... http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0212/72485.html about the rae issue emerging in the 2012 campaign and I am both sad and annoyed

I have gotten angry at many of you- either justly or not- for using the word racist to describe my party and me by extension. I have done so because I have seen true racism and hatred in my life and I take the wrod racist VERY seriously. I served with black men, I employed black men, I always counted them as friends- unlike MANY of my peers back then I respected them

For all the progress the county has made the 2008 election summed it up... you all know I am a proud McCain supporter but I had tears in my eyes for Obama's victory becasue it was so long in the making and I never thought I would see the day that a black man would become President of the United States.

I can tell you now that reading this article had disgusted me and angered me to the core. How in the hell can we move past race if Obama's lackeys are accusing people of racism at every turn? Is it racist to criticize the President of the United STates for a policy he has pursued? Is it racist to call him the "food stamp President" because the number of those on food stamps has increased under his watch? Was Jan Brewer motivated by racism when she confronted him on the tarmac? They ignore any possibility that these were motivated by policy differences and instead occuse Gingrich, Brewer, and others of the very worst human quality

Living in the Deep South, there are very few people I know who hate Obama for his race and that is very few people too many... but the same ones hate Romney for his religion, hated Hillary for bein a woman, hated McCain for being moderate etc... as a white, Southern, Christian, arguably well-off, veteran- I can tell you that the vast, vast majority of my peers are insulted and angered by being grouped as racist.

That is the one thing the article was right about- if Obama's people make this about race, they will only hurt themselves by dividing this country. I know the President and his people don't read this, but I beg them to make what could be the last election of my life one that has finallly gone beyond race...
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Sbane
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« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2012, 07:34:44 AM »

So you don't think it's slightly insensitive when Newt says Blacks should demand jobs, not food stamps? Why is he singling out Blacks? Isn't he dragging race into the campaign? Isn't he making the insinuation that either all Blacks are on food stamps, or Obama is helping out only his race by providing them with more food stamps? He was the one who dragged race into the issue, and then capitalized on it even more with that disgusting performance against Juan Williams in that debate. It looks like Newt and some other, but not all, Republicans are trying to insinuate that he is only being a President for Black America.

As for Brewer, I don't think she wagged her finger at him because he is Black. Brewer may or may not be racist against Hispanics, but she sure as hell is as dumb as a pile of rocks.
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CLARENCE 2015!
clarence
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« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2012, 07:41:30 AM »

So you don't think it's slightly insensitive when Newt says Blacks should demand jobs, not food stamps? Why is he singling out Blacks? Isn't he dragging race into the campaign? Isn't he making the insinuation that either all Blacks are on food stamps, or Obama is helping out only his race by providing them with more food stamps? He was the one who dragged race into the issue, and then capitalized on it even more with that disgusting performance against Juan Williams in that debate. It looks like Newt and some other, but not all, Republicans are trying to insinuate that he is only being a President for Black America.

As for Brewer, I don't think she wagged her finger at him because he is Black. Brewer may or may not be racist against Hispanics, but she sure as hell is as dumb as a pile of rocks.
Here is where I know I will disagree with many of you... I believe a policy that demeans blacks is one where the govt says "we will give you a handout" as opposed ot saying "we will help you reach your full potential". I know many people of all races need things like welfare or unemployment at times for very legitimate and sad reasons- they need to be helped. But programs such as affirmative action- full knowing I am walking into a firing squad here- tell black people "we expect LESS from you.... we are LOWERING our standards for you" and that is what I see from Newt's remarks. I don't think he was saying at all that Obama is only a President for blacks- I do not see that at all
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Politico
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« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2012, 08:18:34 AM »
« Edited: February 06, 2012, 08:21:55 AM by Politico »

Great post. I agree wholeheartedly, but you have to keep in mind that Gingrich has used subtle "coding," most notably in South Carolina and less so in Florida. I am sure somebody else can rehash those points. It comes with the territory, unfortunately. It definitely would have been better if Gingrich had not stooped to that level, of course. It has hurt the party's chances. But I guess Gingrich did what he had to do to win in South Carolina.

I am concerned about one thing, though:

I know the President and his people don't read this, but I beg them to make what could be the last election of my life one that has finallly gone beyond race...

Are you OK, buddy?
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CLARENCE 2015!
clarence
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« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2012, 09:19:01 AM »

Great post. I agree wholeheartedly, but you have to keep in mind that Gingrich has used subtle "coding," most notably in South Carolina and less so in Florida. I am sure somebody else can rehash those points. It comes with the territory, unfortunately. It definitely would have been better if Gingrich had not stooped to that level, of course. It has hurt the party's chances. But I guess Gingrich did what he had to do to win in South Carolina.

I am concerned about one thing, though:

I know the President and his people don't read this, but I beg them to make what could be the last election of my life one that has finallly gone beyond race...

Are you OK, buddy?
Thank you for the concern Politico- I am fine but I am old and with a bad medical history... no reason to think I cant make it another 10 or even 20 years but a single infection has killed people far healthier and younger then me
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Sbane
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« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2012, 01:55:37 PM »
« Edited: February 06, 2012, 01:57:43 PM by sbane »

So you don't think it's slightly insensitive when Newt says Blacks should demand jobs, not food stamps? Why is he singling out Blacks? Isn't he dragging race into the campaign? Isn't he making the insinuation that either all Blacks are on food stamps, or Obama is helping out only his race by providing them with more food stamps? He was the one who dragged race into the issue, and then capitalized on it even more with that disgusting performance against Juan Williams in that debate. It looks like Newt and some other, but not all, Republicans are trying to insinuate that he is only being a President for Black America.

As for Brewer, I don't think she wagged her finger at him because he is Black. Brewer may or may not be racist against Hispanics, but she sure as hell is as dumb as a pile of rocks.
Here is where I know I will disagree with many of you... I believe a policy that demeans blacks is one where the govt says "we will give you a handout" as opposed ot saying "we will help you reach your full potential". I know many people of all races need things like welfare or unemployment at times for very legitimate and sad reasons- they need to be helped. But programs such as affirmative action- full knowing I am walking into a firing squad here- tell black people "we expect LESS from you.... we are LOWERING our standards for you" and that is what I see from Newt's remarks. I don't think he was saying at all that Obama is only a President for blacks- I do not see that at all

See, you have it completely twisted. I disagree with affirmative action, at least by race. It should be transitioned into a program that helps give a step up to lower income people from all backgrounds. For example Asians don't really get AA in most of the country because they are not a "disadvantaged" minority. So if it's not racism that is holding Blacks and Hispanics back (presumably it should affect Asians too if that were the case), shouldn't we transition to a program that helps those from a more disadvantaged background of ALL races and ethnicities?

Now that was just a distraction from the real issue. We were talking about food stamps, a program that is colorblind. So why is Gingrich out there telling Blacks they should demand jobs not foodstamps? Why bring Blacks into the conversation?(and why only in SC? hmm....)If he wants to make the point that government should help people get jobs, not assistance, that's a valid point but directing it towards Blacks is where he went wrong. And it's not like he apologized for it, he used it to score more political points against Juan Williams. That was disgusting, utterly disgusting. And I don't think Newt is a racist at all, he is something even more vile......
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Torie
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« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2012, 02:23:32 PM »

I have read a lot of posts back and forth on this race card thing and Pubs allegedly playing it, and it is kind of depressing, so here is my opinion. I think this racist line about certain Pubs, or Pubs in general, is way overdone. I don't instantly link blacks to food stamps (most that I see using them are Hispanics anyway), and neither did Newt. And I don't think he meant it as code for a put down of blacks. He meant is as a put down of focusing on handouts as a way of life rather than fostering better opportunities, and encouraging their use, and better habits, to end the dependency. Easier said than done of course (particularly longer term and those horrible schools), but that is his message. It is not about race. JMO.
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Sbane
sbane
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« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2012, 02:52:57 PM »

Well, I just don't know why he said Blacks should ask for jobs rather than food stamps. What does it have to do with Blacks? And he could have tried to explain himself, but instead chose to attack Juan. It was absolutely ridiculous and one of the most disgusting things I have witnessed at these debates (hilarious that I cannot come out and say this was the most disgusting....the Republican base is at least a little off if nothing else). Of course it could have just been Newt's oversized ego not wanting to apologize and he ended up getting a standing ovation and just ran with it. In any case that audience.....
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