Santorum is a lunatic, Part 10,568

[Link]

Contraception is a want, not a need.

Your support of this nonsense makes you a Big Government stooge who implicitly believes the state owns you and I.

I don't think doctor's recommendations are "nonsense."  No offense but I would listen to them before I listened to you.

[Wisconsin+17]

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Yeah, and? Why should I be paying for it? I get along just fine without contraception. You want filet mignon every night - great. Does that justify me paying for the steaks?

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The point being that the morning after pill prevents implantation. You admitted this was so and asked if that was the reason I was against it. You are correct. It is also the reason that Santorum has come out against it too.

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I'm sure the same was said after Dred Scott. Sure, they didn't hit a home run, but they did reach the warning track.

[Politico]

Contraception is a want, not a need.

You are completely mindless.

Your support of this nonsense makes you a Big Government stooge who implicitly believes the state owns you and I.

I don't think doctor's recommendations are "nonsense."  No offense but I would listen to them before I listened to you.

By "nonsense" I was obviously referring to your belief in having the government force religious institutions to do things that are against their beliefs (i.e., forcing Catholic hospitals to give contraceptives on demand for the sole purpose of contraception). Again, Catholic hospitals are not denying treatment for illness.

You believe the state has the right to force religious institutions to render services that are against their religious beliefs. You implicitly believe that the state owns the people. I believe we the people own the state. That is the key difference between you and I. You believe in force and Big Government; I believe in a government of the people, by the people, and for the people.

[Insula Dei]

Two hundred years after Burke the Guillotine still presses the right buttons on the reactionary American right, fascinating.


(Not that Burke really used the Guillotine in that way, of course. In the Anglophone world Carlyle would have been the first to really stress it, I believe).

[Sbane]

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Yeah, and? Why should I be paying for it? I get along just fine without contraception. You want filet mignon every night - great. Does that justify me paying for the steaks?

Who asked you to pay for it? Employers of Hospital workers should pay for it though, whether it be some for profit corporation or the Catholic church. Also it will prevent lives from being lost, if you believe abortion is murder. As someone who is pro-choice only pragmatically, opposition to contraception to me is an tantamount to an endorsement of more abortions.

I don't know when a life starts, but an embryo failing to implant due to natural reasons or due to levonorgestrel is the same to me. If it is a life, then it has been lost in both cases.

Anyways, by including Plan B as something that must be required in the health plans, Obama made a mistake. Plan B only needs to be used once, and thus is not that expensive as opposed to BCP's which need to be used everyday (unless you are a retard and need to use plan B over and over again). There was no need to include it in a health plan. And the Catholic church fighting contraception would have been a losing proposition with church members, not to mention the overall population.

[greenforest32]

It's always religion looking to shove itself where it doesn't belong. Anybody out there defining their university or hospital as a religious institution is just looking to stir up sh**t.

These "religious institutions" should not get a special exemption from this birth control coverage mandate that every other university and hospital must cover.

These theocrats need to take their stone-age mythological beliefs and crawl back into their cave. They obviously can't handle living in the 21st century.

[TJ in Oregon]

98% of self-identified Catholic women between the ages of 18-44 who have had sex in the last three months used an artifical method of contraception. So naturally the Obama administration must mandate Catholic hospitals to pay for birth control and Plan B. Because Catholic hospitals employee non-Catholic staff and treat non-Catholic patients. We can't have that Those institutions must not be religious. Jesus would not have qualified for a religious exemption. The president gets to run the entire country, including the religious institutions within it. Who's going to stop him from rewriting Catholic teachings? After all, the Bishops are clearly the 1% in this case.

[Politico]

They obviously can't handle living in the 21st century.

All of the people out there who are having unprotected sex (RE: NO CONDOM) outside of a committed relationship are actually the ones who can't handle living in the 21st century. The 1970s ended a long time ago.

Again: If you want to help people in the realm of sex/contraception, promote awareness of HIV/AIDS and the ability of increased condom use to help stop its spread. You want to talk about a sad development, the fact that HIV/AIDS is back on the rise is the biggest sin in America today. My cousin did not die for nothing. The fact that so many people are still spreading HIV/AIDS in America over a quarter century after his death just blows my mind. And you people on the left have the nerve to try to force charitable religious institutions to do something that is against their religious beliefs? Shame on you. If you want to help with something, how about tackling the REAL problems in America instead of always trying to force Big Government down everybody's throat?

[Lief 🗽]

Issues like this just prove that you right-winger fucks don't actually care about unemployment or people struggling to pay the bills or anything like that. Rather than save literally tens of millions of American women thousands of dollars on what can be prohibitively expensive medicine, you decide it's more important that employers be allowed to tell women what they can and cannot do with their own bodies based on the employer's religious beliefs!

Upwards of 90% of sexually-active, fertile women who do not want to become pregnant are practicing contraception. If Republicans keep pushing the views of a couple of right-wing bishops and conservatives stuck in the 1950s, they are going to get destroyed in November. You can't just demonize and attack every single group in this country that is not white Christian men and expect to win elections.

If Republicans (and Catholics) want to keep turning off young people and women with their reactionary policies ripped straight from 1950s America, be my guest.

[Politico]

Issues like this just prove that you right-winger fucks don't actually care about unemployment or people struggling to pay the bills or anything like that. Rather than save literally tens of millions of American women thousands of dollars on what can be prohibitively expensive medicine, you decide it's more important that employers be allowed to tell women what they can and cannot do with their own bodies based on the employer's religious beliefs!

Upwards of 90% of sexually-active, fertile women who do not want to become pregnant are practicing contraception. If Republicans keep pushing the views of a couple of right-wing bishops and conservatives stuck in the 1950s, they are going to get destroyed in November. You can't just demonize and attack every single group in this country that is not white Christian men and expect to win elections.

See, I thought anybody could buy condoms at the local 7/11. Dirt cheap, too. No prescription necessary. And even more effective than the pill! Last but not least, condoms actually help prevent the spread of HIV/AIDS, unlike the pill. In the 21st century, condoms are really the only rational choice for anybody who chooses sex outside of a committed relationship, if not marriage.

Keep thinking you are re-igniting the "culture war" with this. This is no such thing. This is about you trying to shove more and more Big Government down everybody's throat. Enough is enough. The government does not have the right to tell religious institutions what to do. People are saying enough is enough because they know it will not stop unless a line is drawn in the sand eventually, preferably now rather than before it is too late. I know this offends your communist sensibilities, but deal with it.

[Free Palestine]

Issues like this just prove that you right-winger fucks don't actually care about unemployment or people struggling to pay the bills or anything like that. Rather than save literally tens of millions of American women thousands of dollars on what can be prohibitively expensive medicine, you decide it's more important that employers be allowed to tell women what they can and cannot do with their own bodies based on the employer's religious beliefs!

Upwards of 90% of sexually-active, fertile women who do not want to become pregnant are practicing contraception. If Republicans keep pushing the views of a couple of right-wing bishops and conservatives stuck in the 1950s, they are going to get destroyed in November. You can't just demonize and attack every single group in this country that is not white Christian men and expect to win elections.

See, I thought anybody could buy condoms at the local 7/11. Dirt cheap, too. No prescription. And even more effective than the pill.

Keep thinking you are re-igniting the "culture war" with this. This is no such thing. This is about you trying to shove more and more Big Government down everybody's throat. Enough is enough. The government does not have the right to tell religious institutions what to do. I know this offends your communist sensibilities, but deal with it.

lol

[Free Palestine]

Also, it's funny that Politico is whining about "big government" when his lover-boy Romney isn't exactly a small government conservative Republican.

Small government is a load of crap anyways, in most incarnations.  The small government most Republitards talk about is "small" only in the sense that it's small enough to fit into your uterus, or small enough to fit in your bedroom.

[TJ in Oregon]

Issues like this just prove that you right-winger fucks don't actually care about unemployment or people struggling to pay the bills or anything like that. Rather than save literally tens of millions of American women thousands of dollars on what can be prohibitively expensive medicine, you decide it's more important that employers be allowed to tell women what they can and cannot do with their own bodies based on the employer's religious beliefs!

Upwards of 90% of sexually-active, fertile women who do not want to become pregnant are practicing contraception. If Republicans keep pushing the views of a couple of right-wing bishops and conservatives stuck in the 1950s, they are going to get destroyed in November. You can't just demonize and attack every single group in this country that is not white Christian men and expect to win elections.

See, I thought anybody could buy condoms at the local 7/11. Dirt cheap, too. No prescription. And even more effective than the pill. And condoms actually prevent the spread of HIV/AIDS, unlike the pill. In the 21st century, condoms are really the only rational choice for anybody who chooses sex outside of a committed relationship, if not marriage.

Keep thinking you are re-igniting the "culture war" with this. This is no such thing. This is about you trying to shove more and more Big Government down everybody's throat. Enough is enough. The government does not have the right to tell religious institutions what to do. People are saying enough is enough because they know it will not stop unless a line is drawn in the sand. I know this offends your communist sensibilities, but deal with it.

But the Catholic Church is the enemy! It must be destroyed at all costs because religion is an outdated means to control the populace! No justice, No peace!

[Politico]

Also, it's funny that Politico is whining about "big government" when his lover-boy Romney isn't exactly a small government conservative Republican.

Small government is a load of crap anyways, in most incarnations.  The small government most Republitards talk about is "small" only in the sense that it's small enough to fit into your uterus, or small enough to fit in your bedroom.

Romney and Paul are clearly the small government choices, and they want nothing to do with your bedroom judging by that pony in your signature. There's a reason why Paul has not lambasted Romney, unlike the rest of his opponents.

[Free Palestine]

Also, it's funny that Politico is whining about "big government" when his lover-boy Romney isn't exactly a small government conservative Republican.

Small government is a load of crap anyways, in most incarnations.  The small government most Republitards talk about is "small" only in the sense that it's small enough to fit into your uterus, or small enough to fit in your bedroom.

Romney and Paul are clearly the small government choices. There's a reason why Paul has not lambasted Romney, unlike the rest of his opponents.

Pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft

[Wisconsin+17]

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Obama.

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It's not just hospital workers. It applies to everyone without exception.

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So you're best reply is a Hobbesian choice? No, this only works if you believe that contraception reduces the incidence of abortion AND if you believe that the ends justify the means. First, your premise is flawed, secondly, even if contraception reduced abortion, it still wouldn't be justified.

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Nobody is pro choice out of pragmatism. If that were so you wouldn't have to force people to cover abortion and contraception. People are pro choice out of idealism - the desire to shape the world to fit themselves.

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So it's ok to demolish a building when you don't know if there's someone inside? That's not very good logic.

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So if I were to walk up, mug you, kill you, strip your body and sell the organs to save the lives of 5 others - that's no different then if you died from a heart attack?

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Ah, so because it's a losing proposition means that they shouldn't fight it. Rubbish. The constitution guarantees freedom of religion, and protects the rights of Catholics to not pay for contraception.

If Obama wants to ram it through- the constitution also guarantees the right of the people to expel and remove officials who have exceeded their constitutional authority.

[Politico]

Issues like this just prove that you right-winger fucks don't actually care about unemployment or people struggling to pay the bills or anything like that. Rather than save literally tens of millions of American women thousands of dollars on what can be prohibitively expensive medicine, you decide it's more important that employers be allowed to tell women what they can and cannot do with their own bodies based on the employer's religious beliefs!

Upwards of 90% of sexually-active, fertile women who do not want to become pregnant are practicing contraception. If Republicans keep pushing the views of a couple of right-wing bishops and conservatives stuck in the 1950s, they are going to get destroyed in November. You can't just demonize and attack every single group in this country that is not white Christian men and expect to win elections.

See, I thought anybody could buy condoms at the local 7/11. Dirt cheap, too. No prescription. And even more effective than the pill. And condoms actually prevent the spread of HIV/AIDS, unlike the pill. In the 21st century, condoms are really the only rational choice for anybody who chooses sex outside of a committed relationship, if not marriage.

Keep thinking you are re-igniting the "culture war" with this. This is no such thing. This is about you trying to shove more and more Big Government down everybody's throat. Enough is enough. The government does not have the right to tell religious institutions what to do. People are saying enough is enough because they know it will not stop unless a line is drawn in the sand. I know this offends your communist sensibilities, but deal with it.

But the Catholic Church is the enemy! It must be destroyed at all costs because religion is an outdated means to control the populace! No justice, No peace!

Myself, I think they're just envious of the type of power the Catholic Church once had. They want the government to have that type of power over you, I and everybody else in America in the 21st Century. Conservatives, libertarians and moderates have one word for that: NO!

[Lief 🗽]

Issues like this just prove that you right-winger fucks don't actually care about unemployment or people struggling to pay the bills or anything like that. Rather than save literally tens of millions of American women thousands of dollars on what can be prohibitively expensive medicine, you decide it's more important that employers be allowed to tell women what they can and cannot do with their own bodies based on the employer's religious beliefs!

Upwards of 90% of sexually-active, fertile women who do not want to become pregnant are practicing contraception. If Republicans keep pushing the views of a couple of right-wing bishops and conservatives stuck in the 1950s, they are going to get destroyed in November. You can't just demonize and attack every single group in this country that is not white Christian men and expect to win elections.

See, I thought anybody could buy condoms at the local 7/11. Dirt cheap, too. No prescription. And even more effective than the pill. And condoms actually prevent the spread of HIV/AIDS, unlike the pill. In the 21st century, condoms are really the only rational choice for anybody who chooses sex outside of a committed relationship, if not marriage.

Keep thinking you are re-igniting the "culture war" with this. This is no such thing. This is about you trying to shove more and more Big Government down everybody's throat. Enough is enough. The government does not have the right to tell religious institutions what to do. People are saying enough is enough because they know it will not stop unless a line is drawn in the sand. I know this offends your communist sensibilities, but deal with it.

But the Catholic Church is the enemy! It must be destroyed at all costs because religion is an outdated means to control the populace! No justice, No peace!

The Catholic Church is doing more to destroy themselves with this 19th century bullsh*t than even the most anti-Catholic atheists could ever hope to do.

[Oakvale]

Issues like this just prove that you right-winger fucks don't actually care about unemployment or people struggling to pay the bills or anything like that. Rather than save literally tens of millions of American women thousands of dollars on what can be prohibitively expensive medicine, you decide it's more important that employers be allowed to tell women what they can and cannot do with their own bodies based on the employer's religious beliefs!

Upwards of 90% of sexually-active, fertile women who do not want to become pregnant are practicing contraception. If Republicans keep pushing the views of a couple of right-wing bishops and conservatives stuck in the 1950s, they are going to get destroyed in November. You can't just demonize and attack every single group in this country that is not white Christian men and expect to win elections.

See, I thought anybody could buy condoms at the local 7/11. Dirt cheap, too. No prescription. And even more effective than the pill. And condoms actually prevent the spread of HIV/AIDS, unlike the pill. In the 21st century, condoms are really the only rational choice for anybody who chooses sex outside of a committed relationship, if not marriage.

Keep thinking you are re-igniting the "culture war" with this. This is no such thing. This is about you trying to shove more and more Big Government down everybody's throat. Enough is enough. The government does not have the right to tell religious institutions what to do. People are saying enough is enough because they know it will not stop unless a line is drawn in the sand. I know this offends your communist sensibilities, but deal with it.

But the Catholic Church is the enemy! It must be destroyed at all costs because religion is an outdated means to control the populace! No justice, No peace!

No-one's saying anything remotely like this.

e: Just read Politico's latest terrible, terrible post. As I said a while back, Politico, you should be put in hack prison and given the death penalty.

[Free Palestine]

Good lord.  Politico is like the 2012 forum's own BRTD.

[TJ in Oregon]

It's not just hospital workers. It applies to everyone without exception.

Actually there is an exception for religious institutions but to qualify they must employ exclusively members of their religion and serve exclusively members of their religion (or very close). So the Catholic Church could get around this by firing all non-Catholic employees and releasing all non-Catholic patients. Of course, Jesus would not have qualified for such an exemption because he cured non-Jews.

[TJ in Oregon]

Issues like this just prove that you right-winger fucks don't actually care about unemployment or people struggling to pay the bills or anything like that. Rather than save literally tens of millions of American women thousands of dollars on what can be prohibitively expensive medicine, you decide it's more important that employers be allowed to tell women what they can and cannot do with their own bodies based on the employer's religious beliefs!

Upwards of 90% of sexually-active, fertile women who do not want to become pregnant are practicing contraception. If Republicans keep pushing the views of a couple of right-wing bishops and conservatives stuck in the 1950s, they are going to get destroyed in November. You can't just demonize and attack every single group in this country that is not white Christian men and expect to win elections.

See, I thought anybody could buy condoms at the local 7/11. Dirt cheap, too. No prescription. And even more effective than the pill. And condoms actually prevent the spread of HIV/AIDS, unlike the pill. In the 21st century, condoms are really the only rational choice for anybody who chooses sex outside of a committed relationship, if not marriage.

Keep thinking you are re-igniting the "culture war" with this. This is no such thing. This is about you trying to shove more and more Big Government down everybody's throat. Enough is enough. The government does not have the right to tell religious institutions what to do. People are saying enough is enough because they know it will not stop unless a line is drawn in the sand. I know this offends your communist sensibilities, but deal with it.

But the Catholic Church is the enemy! It must be destroyed at all costs because religion is an outdated means to control the populace! No justice, No peace!

No-one's saying anything remotely like this.

e: Just read Politico's latest terrible, terrible post. As I said a while back, you should be put in hack prison and given the death penalty.

I'm sure I deserve no less!
Okay, maybe I'll use a little hyperbole for once tonight.

My issue here is that the Obama administration does not believe Catholics should be allowed to have a hospital without using contraceptives. He believes that there is an inaliable God-given right to the having birth control for free. And the Catholic Church is oppressing people by not giving it to them. I have a problem with that. It's not okay. It's the type of event that is making me re-think my ideas about the role of government to the point where I'm starting to view the government as fundamentally antagonistic rather than just sort of there. This is the type of issue where the government is telling me I am so "backwards" that I am not allowed to have the opinions I have. It's just not allowed.

[All Along The Watchtower]

One Santorum remark is worth 1000 lapsed Catholics.

[Oakvale]

Issues like this just prove that you right-winger fucks don't actually care about unemployment or people struggling to pay the bills or anything like that. Rather than save literally tens of millions of American women thousands of dollars on what can be prohibitively expensive medicine, you decide it's more important that employers be allowed to tell women what they can and cannot do with their own bodies based on the employer's religious beliefs!

Upwards of 90% of sexually-active, fertile women who do not want to become pregnant are practicing contraception. If Republicans keep pushing the views of a couple of right-wing bishops and conservatives stuck in the 1950s, they are going to get destroyed in November. You can't just demonize and attack every single group in this country that is not white Christian men and expect to win elections.

See, I thought anybody could buy condoms at the local 7/11. Dirt cheap, too. No prescription. And even more effective than the pill. And condoms actually prevent the spread of HIV/AIDS, unlike the pill. In the 21st century, condoms are really the only rational choice for anybody who chooses sex outside of a committed relationship, if not marriage.

Keep thinking you are re-igniting the "culture war" with this. This is no such thing. This is about you trying to shove more and more Big Government down everybody's throat. Enough is enough. The government does not have the right to tell religious institutions what to do. People are saying enough is enough because they know it will not stop unless a line is drawn in the sand. I know this offends your communist sensibilities, but deal with it.

But the Catholic Church is the enemy! It must be destroyed at all costs because religion is an outdated means to control the populace! No justice, No peace!

No-one's saying anything remotely like this.

e: Just read Politico's latest terrible, terrible post. As I said a while back, you should be put in hack prison and given the death penalty.

I'm sure I deserve no less!
Okay, maybe I'll use a little hyperbole for once tonight.

Apologies for the confusion, I edited my post to reflect that it's Politico who should be sent to maximum security Hack Prison, not you.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

"My grandmother is a typical white person"

They all say dumb things sometimes... the guillotine comment was over the top but the rest of what he said was dead on

Oh yea... the only thing keeping America from totalitarianism is Christianity.  

Allow me to go throw up.