Greece 'far right' rejects austerity after 'socialists' capitulate!

[opebo]

There are no villains here.

There is always a villain, and he's always easily identifiable - it is he who has the most.

[opebo]

I miss him already.  I'm hoping to see him on T-shirts in Chatachuck market soon though.

I like this image:

[opebo]

I miss him already.  I'm hoping to see him on T-shirts in Chatachuck market soon though.

I like this image:

Is your Gaddafi man-crush for real, or are you joking?

Real of course.  What's not to like?

[opebo]

What reason would any Greek have to accept this system? They're being reduced to destitution for the sins of their rulers to appease a distant owning class. How does Greece benefit at all?

The alternative is an "uncontrolled" default, followed either by even deeper cuts to everything

Actually no, if they would just play the game of poker a bit more boldly the silly Germans might agree to print the debt away without this unhelpful austerity, since failing to do so would lead to a breakup of the Euro.

At any rate it certainly behooves them to refuse to pay back any of this debt and say to Europe - 'its up to you'.

[opebo]

At that point, euro with Greece in it would likely be less attractive to the Germans than the Deutschemark. Also, if the Greek bluff is called, the pain would be far too asymmetric: what would be a hiccup for Germany, would be a disastrous bloodletting for the Greeks. And, of course, at that point the Germans (and not only the Germans) would feel only too justified in punishing the Greeks - if pushed, this might, actually, end in making EU too hot for Greece to stay in.

Its a gamble, but as you said in your earlier post, leaving the Euro is their least bad option, given the posture of their masters the Germans. 

You may be right that having the Greeks and others leave the Euro might not be a severe negative for the Germans, but on the other hand printing away the debt wouldn't be nearly as bad as they imagine either.

[opebo]

By itself, "printing euros to save Greece" right now wouldn't be too bad for Germany. The problem is, once this is allowed, the value of staying in the euro for Germany is negative: they will have all the incentives for going back to the Deutschemark.

What now?  The whole benefit of the Euro for them is an 'unnaturally' devalued currency - printing loads of Euros will only increase this benefit.  Going back to the Deutschmark would kill their exports because they'd go back to having a fairly valued currency.

[opebo]

The belief of the Germans (and apparently from above posts ag as well) in 'inflation' as a threat, in the middle of an enormous worldwide deflation is.. well.. I suppose faith is always just that.

[opebo]

The belief of the Germans (and apparently from above posts ag as well) in 'inflation' as a threat, in the middle of an enormous worldwide deflation is.. well.. I suppose faith is always just that.

Your Lordship must be living in a charmed world, in which prices have been dropping. I live in the real world, in which they are still growing.

Please dispense with the personal attack, ag.  I have no recourse here as you are the moderator, so I'd like to appeal to you openly.  My posts here are respectful and to the point, I think it is reasonable to expect the same in return.

The prices of housing are plummeting, as well as many cheap consumables still cheapening.  The only things I've noticed going upward are food, fuel, and cars.  And ultimately, the most important falling price is that of wages - wages are falling hard.

[opebo]

Ag has acted like a moderator should when his posts are reported on his own board - he asked other moderators to step in and judge it in his place. Since the above is not a personal attack it was not infracted.

Obviously it is a personal attack since it is an attack on the character of his interlocutor rather than statement of an argument about the issue, Gustaf.  But I'm not surprised that you all never infract one another.  My appeal was to him personally to remove the offense.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

It is precisely the dubiousness of this 'general price level' which is the point, Gustaf.  Obviously whoever is calculating it is severely underweighting things like wage rates and the cost of a house. 

[opebo]

Obviously it is a personal attack since it is an attack on the character of his interlocutor rather than statement of an argument about the issue,

Believe me there was no attempt on my part to attack you character I would fess up, though, there was some irony involved. I am not sure, if it is against the rules - I would ask my fellow moderators (none of whom I know in person) to decide on that.

Ironical attack is attack, ag.  Please stop abusing your position.

[opebo]

Once again, I am not moderating my own posts - if other moderators decide that I stepped over the line, I will take the consequences.

You know very well they won't.

However, I'd like to note, that in this very thread I've been quite obviously and personally (and entirely seriously) critical of the morals of other posters, none of whom chose to object. If anything here was a personal attack (I myself do not believe it was a violation of any rules, but I could be wrong), it was this - and you were not subject to it.

You're missing the point, as usual, ag.  Criticism of the 'morals' of one's interlocutor is an appropriate and constructive part of making an argument.  In my case you're merely name-calling, a practice from which I am barred.  So, the unfairness is obvious, as well as the lack of any constructive purpose - your only purpose is to cause offense.

[opebo]

You object to the "Your Lordship"? Because that's the only name I've been calling you.

Yes, obviously.

[opebo]

Ok, I will avoid that in the future, if it upsets you. Which, of course, doesn't change the point I am making: your worldview is, really, mostly consistent with the interest of a racist rich aristocrat, who wholheartedly despises the common folk and enjoys satisfying his wants at their expense, and so chooses to advocate policies that would make sure nobody can challenge his inherited advantages in life. Now, there is another, perhaps simpler, reason for somebody to have such views, but I don't like assuming people are stupid.

You see, ag, the way you elucidated your point above was perfect, until the last sentence.  We disagree - there is no reason to claim that one's interlocutor is 'stupid'.  You really should work on your posting, as you are setting a very poor example as a moderator.  Make your points, but leave out the trolling and personal attacks.

[opebo]

You object to me claiming you are NOT stupid? You really want me to change my opinion? I fail to understand you.

Nothing to do with me particularly in this case, I was referring to your continual claims that those who disagree with you must be stupid.. the example in question:

...your worldview is, really, mostly consistent with the interest of a racist rich aristocrat, who wholheartedly despises the common folk and enjoys satisfying his wants at their expense, and so chooses to advocate policies that would make sure nobody can challenge his inherited advantages in life. Now, there is another, perhaps simpler, reason for somebody to have such views, but I don't like assuming people are stupid.

Here you suggest that anyone who doesn't believe that your capitalism is the best way to improve the lot of 'the common folk' must be stupid.  Really ag, this is not the kind of discourse you moderators are supposed to allow!

[opebo]

Capitalism is only a State policy, gentlemen, nothing more, nothing less.