Department of Federal Elections: Homelycooking, SoFE
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Author Topic: Department of Federal Elections: Homelycooking, SoFE  (Read 181878 times)
Spamage
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« Reply #550 on: November 05, 2012, 08:06:12 PM »


In light of these complications, I would like to move to suspend certification as long as these issues remain. I would also deem a recount in order. I am willing to file suit for this to happen.

I must disagree, NcYankee did vote late. I realize DST was in effect but regardless it was already closed. And OAM's vote had you in the last preference while I held second (although if I was tied with Ernest there would be a different problem.
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homelycooking
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« Reply #551 on: November 05, 2012, 08:31:52 PM »
« Edited: November 05, 2012, 08:33:57 PM by homelycooking »

"You are an eligible voter in general if you were registered to vote on or before the proper date, and if you made 10 posts in any location within the Atlas Forum in the 8 weeks prior to the commencement of the regular election. In other words, if your name appears on the Census list, you can presume you are eligible. "

He registered on the 29th of October, and was on the list of the 1st of November, while the election began on the 2nd.

In light of these complications, I would like to move to suspend certification as long as these issues remain. I would also deem a recount in order. I am willing to file suit for this to happen.

Note the words "in general" in the ballot language - i.e., there are exceptions. By law, I cannot count the votes of those registered 7 days before an election as valid.

The law also is clear that elections must conclude 72 hours after they begin. Because of Daylight Savings Time, NCYankee's vote was cast nearly 73 hours after the polls were opened.

You're welcome to seek legal remedy for your objections, but having reviewed the results, I see no reason why Spamage should not be certified to have been elected Senator.
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Simfan34
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« Reply #552 on: November 05, 2012, 09:01:25 PM »
« Edited: November 05, 2012, 09:06:14 PM by Simfan34 »

By law? Let us look at the language used.

1. "You are an eligible voter in general if you were registered to vote on or before the proper date."

DC Al Fine registered three days before the election. Not only that, but you say "registered to vote on... the proper date", suggesting that one could register to vote on the day of the election.  Nowhere is a seven day period mentioned, and the exact opposite- same day election registration- is implied.

2. "if you made 10 posts in any location within the Atlas Forum in the 8 weeks prior to the commencement of the regular election"

These were met.

3."In other words, if your name appears on the Census list, you can presume you are eligible. "

His name was on the census list as of the 1st. Your directive, therefore, officially allowed him to operate under the presumption that he was an eligible voter. Therefore, either he is indeed an eligible voter, or you have misled citizens, using very precise language, insofar as their voting eligibility.

Also, you have conducted all elections under EDT- even when DST was not in effect. This casts doubts as to the non-acceptance of NCYankee's vote. By that precedent, EDT could be considered synonymous with EST with such usage; I am not sure if Atlasian law recognizes daylight savings time, I'm sure it has but I think precedent may require its acceptance.

If you are to act under a good-faith principle in regards to the intent of OAM's vote, which would normally be deemed spolit, then it seems incongruous not to apply that principle to DC Al Fine's and NCYankee's votes. Even if you do not, I believe there is a legal basis for the acceptance of the latter two.
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Speed of Sound
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« Reply #553 on: November 05, 2012, 09:13:23 PM »

I support Simfan's request to have certification held off as long as reasonable questions of law remain, and they clearly do.
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homelycooking
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« Reply #554 on: November 05, 2012, 09:19:50 PM »

The text of the voting booth is not legally binding. This text, however, is:

Article V, Section II, Clause 3 of the Constitution

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They put it to a vote and they just kept lying
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« Reply #555 on: November 05, 2012, 09:21:12 PM »

oh good lord is this really happening again
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Simfan34
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« Reply #556 on: November 05, 2012, 09:28:32 PM »
« Edited: November 05, 2012, 09:36:48 PM by Simfan34 »

Well, I'll need to take a closer look, but if you are correct you led him on under false pretenses.

But I am seeing some troubling information concerning the election times. It seems you have conducted all elections on Eastern Daylight Time, even when DST was not in effect. This would either imply that

a. EDT is not Eastern Daylight Time, but standard time, so all votes cast (some eight) before 11:59 EST are invalid, and NCYankee's is valid.

b. EDT is some fluid concept meaning "the present time", so NCYankee's vote is valid regardless.

c. EDT is Eastern Daylight Time, so the results of past elections conducted outside EDT or between a transition are completely wrong, and the count here is valid.
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homelycooking
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« Reply #557 on: November 05, 2012, 10:35:06 PM »
« Edited: November 05, 2012, 10:42:03 PM by homelycooking »

The whole DST thing is, admittedly, a really bizarre situation. I don't recall having an election that occurred while DST began or ended. I don't think that there's a really clear answer here. But even if I give NCYankee the benefit of the doubt, which I'm admittedly more inclined to do now, Spamage still gets elected. Unless you can show me some evidence not related to OAM or DC al Fine which suggests otherwise, I am legally obligated to certify the results as soon as possible to ensure that the Senate is not deprived of two of its members for longer than it need be.
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Simfan34
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« Reply #558 on: November 05, 2012, 10:51:40 PM »

Mr. Secretary, I exhort you to withhold certification until we can resolve these matters of contention. I hope you can do so, otherwise I shall file suit with the intention of having a legal mandate compelling you to do so.
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Poirot
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« Reply #559 on: November 05, 2012, 11:06:51 PM »

In a ballot case like OAM, is it left to the Secretary's judgement to interpret the ballot ? I'm not familiar with candidate rankings on ballot in real life so I don't know the rules.

In my opinion, I would stop counting a ballot when there is the same number twice. The sequential order of numbers is broken. The second rankings are treated as two reals 2, but they are not necessarily a real 2 and 3. There is a 6 missing on the ballot so maybe a 2 is a 6 (could have happened by pressing the wrong key). Perhaps the voter started marking an order and changed his mind, erased numbers, changed others numbers and it leaves the ballot unclear of his official order. Or it could simply be that the voter entered 2 at the wrong line by mistake, continued ordering candidates and at then saw a blank at his desired second preference and entered 2 at that spot.

It's too bad people can't touch their ballot after some minutes. It leaves incorrectly filled ballots. I know the rule is there so people don't start changing their vote. I guess it's one or the other, no system is perfect.  
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homelycooking
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« Reply #560 on: November 05, 2012, 11:12:31 PM »

Mr. Secretary, I exhort you to withhold certification until we can resolve these matters of contention. I hope you can do so, otherwise I shall file suit with the intention of having a legal mandate compelling you to do so.

In the interest of openness, I will refrain from certifying the results for another 24 hours. If you have a compelling reason why I should not certify Spamage as the winner of a seat in the Senate, state it now.
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Simfan34
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« Reply #561 on: November 05, 2012, 11:28:27 PM »

Mr. Secretary, I exhort you to withhold certification until we can resolve these matters of contention. I hope you can do so, otherwise I shall file suit with the intention of having a legal mandate compelling you to do so.

In the interest of openness, I will refrain from certifying the results for another 24 hours. If you have a compelling reason why I should not certify Spamage as the winner of a seat in the Senate, state it now.

I shall have my legal team put forth a brief tomorrow.
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Barnes
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« Reply #562 on: November 05, 2012, 11:40:52 PM »

Mr. Secretary, I exhort you to withhold certification until we can resolve these matters of contention. I hope you can do so, otherwise I shall file suit with the intention of having a legal mandate compelling you to do so.

In the interest of openness, I will refrain from certifying the results for another 24 hours. If you have a compelling reason why I should not certify Spamage as the winner of a seat in the Senate, state it now.

I shall have my legal team put forth a brief tomorrow.

I don't plan on getting involved in this, but the best (and only way, really) way to resolve this is in court. Wink
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Spamage
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« Reply #563 on: November 05, 2012, 11:47:08 PM »

Ruling from Chief Justice KEmperor on Akno21 v. Fritz:

For any vote to be valid, there must be no doubt as to the intent of the voter.

I'm not sure whether this ruling has been superseded by subsequent law (according to the wiki, it has not been), but this seems to suggest that OAM's ballot should not be counted.

I would concur except for the fact that me and Simfan were not both preferenced in 2nd and it is clear that I was above him  (2nd is higher than 5th). If him and I had both received 2nd preference then the vote would be invalid but we didn't. The intent is clear and I intend to argue against this. Also, this case was on the fact that 1 voter combined 2 names under a single preference and did not separately preference them as OAM did. I must reaffirm this statement: I is clear I was preferenced above Simfan.

Also I would be reluctant to go to court because, as homelycooking stated, the Senate will be absent 1 member for quite some time which I think is unacceptable.
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Simfan34
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« Reply #564 on: November 05, 2012, 11:55:50 PM »

Governor, with all due respect, the idea of shutting the door on a contested matter for the sake of expediency is simply ludicrous. If we were to abide by such ideas, then our whole idea of justice would be reduced to farce- let us not forget the saying "the wheels of justice turn slowly, but grind finely."

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Zanas
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« Reply #565 on: November 06, 2012, 12:02:28 AM »

I think Simfan really has a case to be made. It's getting obvious though that the only possible outcome is the SoFE calling the election with his interpretation, and Simfan challenging the result in court.
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Spamage
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« Reply #566 on: November 06, 2012, 12:07:57 AM »

Governor, with all due respect, the idea of shutting the door on a contested matter for the sake of expediency is simply ludicrous. If we were to abide by such ideas, then our whole idea of justice would be reduced to farce- let us not forget the saying "the wheels of justice turn slowly, but grind finely."



Even so, you ignored my original argument. I was preferenced 2nd here and you were preferenced 5th. I simply was stating that a court battle could turn this very messy.

It isn't ludicrous to give Atlasians an active government and for you to say that I must argue is ridiculous. I realize you believe that I'm stated that for my own political benefit but I truly did have Atlasian intentions in mind as it may also delay Snowstalker taking office as well.
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Zanas
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« Reply #567 on: November 06, 2012, 12:16:51 AM »

If we got the ruling of the Chief Justice right, "there should be no doubt as to the intent of the voter.", I don't see how we can interpret that otherwise than meaning "there should be no doubt as to the meaning of the voter's ballot as a whole, the full intent of the voter". Otherwise the same ballot could be valid in some cases and invalid in some others, which I don't think is right.

Yeah, I studied law... We practically get boners from that sort of cases...
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Spamage
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« Reply #568 on: November 06, 2012, 12:32:45 AM »

Even so, I stand by my statement. There is no doubt about OAM's Ballot. I was 2nd, he was 5th. The only other cases in which this ballot ought to be thrown out are ones where 2 candidates are tied and are also the same preference on the ballot.
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Zanas
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« Reply #569 on: November 06, 2012, 12:42:04 AM »

And so if you had been tied with Speed of Sound we should have thrown away his ballot, but with Simfan we should not ? I'm really not a fan of this "variable invalidity ballot theory"...

Don't get me wrong, I don't have an agenda against any of you here, just trying to reason legally what should be decided. FWIW I'd say that all three litigious ballots are invalid. I don't even know what consequence that would have on the outcome.
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homelycooking
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« Reply #570 on: November 06, 2012, 09:11:01 AM »

The result will be declared and certified at 11:30 tonight.
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homelycooking
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« Reply #571 on: November 07, 2012, 08:47:49 PM »

OFFICIAL RESULTS

AT-LARGE SENATE - SPECIAL ELECTION

QUOTA = 28

FIRST BALLOT

SNOWSTALKER 22 (Fritz, Adam Griffin, Fuzzy, Snowstalker, Marokai, Alfred F Jones, bore, Sol, Opebo, Barnes, Ogre Mage, Comrade Funk, Red Prometheus, Gass, Redalgo, Oakvale, MaxQue, Zanas, BRTD, sirnick, morgieb, Seatown)
SIMFAN 16 (Simfan, Smid, Goldwater, Averroes, Pingvin, Homely, A-Bob, Hagrid, TX Dem, TJ in Cleve, JCL, Torie, Duke, Franzl, Poirot, Clarence)
SPAMAGE 14 (Spamage, tmthforu, Oldiesfreak, benconstine, sjoycefla, Miles, Vosem, 20RP12, ZuWo, Cathcon, ID BDD, Jerseyrules, bgwah, Cincinnatus)
SPEED OF SOUND 12 (Hawkeye, Speed of Sound, Antonio V, Snowball, Napoleon, Velasco, JulioMadrid, drj101, Lewis T, Mr. X, Polnut, ilikeverin)
ERNEST 12 (Frodo, PiT, AndrewCT, Kalwejt, Ernest, Ebowed, Shua, Thomas D, Sbane, Gustaf, Dallasfan, NCYankee)
NVGONZALEZ 3 (Wolfentoad, Scott, SPC)
HASHEMITE (write-in) 2 (Hashemite, Xahar)
SANCHEZ (write-in) 1 (Sanchez)

INVALID 3 (DC al Fine, John Engle, OAM)

SECOND BALLOT: Redistribution of write-ins and NVGonzalez

SNOWSTALKER 24 (Fritz, Adam Griffin, Fuzzy, Snowstalker, Marokai, Alfred F Jones, bore, Sol, Opebo, Barnes, Ogre Mage, Comrade Funk, Red Prometheus, Gass, Redalgo, Oakvale, MaxQue, Zanas, BRTD, sirnick, morgieb, Seatown, Hashemite, Scott)
SIMFAN 17 (Simfan, Smid, Goldwater, Averroes, Pingvin, Homely, A-Bob, Hagrid, TX Dem, TJ in Cleve, JCL, Torie, Duke, Sanchez, Franzl, Poirot, Clarence)
SPAMAGE 14 (Spamage, tmthforu, Oldiesfreak, benconstine, sjoycefla, Miles, Vosem, 20RP12, ZuWo, Cathcon, ID BDD, Jerseyrules, bgwah, Cincinnatus)
SPEED OF SOUND 14 (Hawkeye, Speed of Sound, Antonio V, Snowball, Napoleon, Velasco, JulioMadrid, drj101, Lewis T, Mr. X, Polnut, ilikeverin, Wolfentoad, Xahar)
ERNEST 13 (Frodo, PiT, AndrewCT, Kalwejt, Ernest, Ebowed, Shua, Thomas D, Sbane, Gustaf, SPC, Dallasfan, NCYankee)
INVALID 3 (DC al Fine, John Engle, OAM)

THIRD BALLOT: Redistribution of Ernest

SNOWSTALKER 25 (Fritz, Adam Griffin, Fuzzy, Snowstalker, Marokai, Alfred F Jones, bore, Sol, Opebo, Barnes, Ogre Mage, Comrade Funk, Red Prometheus, Gass, Redalgo, Oakvale, MaxQue, Zanas, BRTD, sirnick, morgieb, Seatown, Hashemite, Scott, Kalwejt)
SIMFAN 20 (Simfan, Smid, Goldwater, Averroes, Pingvin, Homely, A-Bob, Hagrid, TX Dem, TJ in Cleve, JCL, Torie, Duke, Sanchez, Franzl, Poirot, Clarence, Thomas D, Gustaf, NCYankee)
SPAMAGE 18 (Spamage, tmthforu, Oldiesfreak, benconstine, sjoycefla, Miles, Vosem, 20RP12, ZuWo, Cathcon, ID BDD, Jerseyrules, bgwah, Cincinnatus, Frodo, PiT, Shua, SPC)
SPEED OF SOUND 18 (Hawkeye, Speed of Sound, Antonio V, Snowball, Napoleon, Velasco, JulioMadrid, drj101, Lewis T, Mr. X, Polnut, ilikeverin, Wolfentoad, Xahar, AndrewCT, Ernest, Ebowed, Sbane)
EXHAUSTED 1 (Dallasfan)
INVALID 3 (DC al Fine, John Engle, OAM)

FOURTH BALLOT: Redistribution of Speed of Sound

SNOWSTALKER 36 (Fritz, Adam Griffin, Fuzzy, Snowstalker, Marokai, Alfred F Jones, bore, Sol, Opebo, Barnes, Ogre Mage, Comrade Funk, Red Prometheus, Gass, Redalgo, Oakvale, MaxQue, Zanas, BRTD, sirnick, morgieb, Seatown, Hashemite, Scott, Kalwejt, Hawkeye, Speed of Sound, Antonio V, Snowball, Velasco, JulioMadrid, drj101, Mr. X, Polnut, Ebowed, Xahar) ELECTED

SIMFAN 22 (Simfan, Smid, Goldwater, Averroes, Pingvin, Homely, A-Bob, Hagrid, TX Dem, TJ in Cleve, JCL, Torie, Duke, Sanchez, Franzl, Poirot, Clarence, Thomas D, Gustaf, Napoleon, AndrewCT, NCYankee)
SPAMAGE 21 (Spamage, tmthforu, Oldiesfreak, benconstine, sjoycefla, Miles, Vosem, 20RP12, ZuWo, Cathcon, ID BDD, Jerseyrules, bgwah, Cincinnatus, Frodo, PiT, Shua, SPC, Wolfentoad, ilikeverin, Ernest)
EXHAUSTED 3 (Dallasfan, Lewis T, sbane)
INVALID 3 (DC al Fine, John Engle, OAM)

FIFTH BALLOT: Redistribution of Snowstalker surplus

SNOWSTALKER 28

SIMFAN 24 (Simfan, Smid, Goldwater, Averroes, Pingvin, Homely, A-Bob, Hagrid, TX Dem, TJ in Cleve, JCL, Torie, Duke, Sanchez, Franzl, Poirot, Clarence, Thomas D, Gustaf, Napoleon, AndrewCT, Sol, Comrade Funk, Oakvale, MaxQue, Sirnick, Scott, Snowball, Ebowed, Polnut, NCYankee) ELECTED


SPAMAGE 23.89 (Spamage, tmthforu, Oldiesfreak, benconstine, sjoycefla, Miles, Vosem, 20RP12, ZuWo, Cathcon, ID BDD, Jerseyrules, bgwah, Cincinnatus, Frodo, PiT, Shua, SPC, Wolfentoad, ilikeverin, Ernest, Fuzzy, Bore, Barnes, Gass, Seatown, Kalwejt, SoS, Antonio V, Velasco, JulioMadrid, drj101, Mr. X, morgieb)

EXHAUSTED 6.11 (Dallasfan, Lewis T, sbane, Fritz, Adam Griffin, Snowstalker, Marokai, Alfred, Opebo, Ogre Mage, RedPrometheus, Redalgo, Zanas, BRTD, Hashemite, Hawkeye, Xahar)
INVALID 3 (DC al Fine, John Engle, OAM)



SNOWSTALKER is duly elected Senator for Atlasia at-large.
SIMFAN is duly elected Senator for Atlasia at-large.

There was a total turnout of 85 votes, with 3 ballot papers being rejected.

I, Homelycooking, Secretary of Federal Elections, declare the above results to be a complete and accurate summary of the votes cast.

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Zanas
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« Reply #572 on: November 07, 2012, 09:35:05 PM »

Talk about a close race... In Atlasia, not in America ! Wink
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #573 on: November 07, 2012, 10:35:49 PM »

I assume the SoFE is preparing an explanation?
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LastVoter
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« Reply #574 on: November 07, 2012, 11:52:19 PM »

Didn't see this coming! Guess i'm gonna stay Lieutenant Governor for longer than expected Sad

Oh, and I send my best congratulations to Mr. Simfan Cheesy
Pacific crisis averted.
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