Politics, Religion, and Me

[Yelnoc]

I feel a bit like a white noise poster on the Atlas; people seem to know so little about who I am that they assume I am conservative because of my Georgia avatar.  Through this post, I hope to provide a little insight into who I am and where I come from, politically and in general.  It's a bit stream-of-consciousness-y, so bare with me (if you really want to).

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I began my life of political enlightenment by borrowing my parents ideology, something I think just about everyone tends to do unless they are deliberately rebellious.  At the time, my parents seemed like neo-conservatives, and so I espoused Bush-era neo-conservatism.  Looking back, I think that was probably just a front they put up, though perhaps they too have political matured.  Not too long ago, my mother revealed that she supported gay rights and a woman's right to choose, which stunned the hell out of me.  I was raised in Protestant churches, and my mother's irrationally staunch support of Israel and constant prayer and bible reading gave me the impression she too thought all gays and women who got abortions were condemned to hell.  She was really the more influential parent, politically, religiously, really in a lot of days. 

My father has always worked long, long hours; I'm pretty sure he clocked 75 hours this past week.  So he really does not have time for politics.  When he can't escape a discussion, he tends to fall back on whatever he heard Sean Hannity say, which annoys me to no end, but usually he gets lost in mid-thought and someone else can swoop in and save the conversation.    However, in the few frank discussions we have had, I get the feeling his social conservatism and his religious enthusiasm is more a ploy to keep my mother happy then any genuine belief.  He grew up in the strict Lutheran church; his father died when he was 12 and he spent his teenage years surfing in Southern California.  Every conversation we have had about the environment, mass transit, or any other unassuming subject has painted him quite liberal, but as soon as I let slip a buzzword (like "Obama") he reverts back to Hannity-speak.

But back to me.  I was a very outspoken middle schooler; my social studies teachers probably thought I was an asshole.  I cringe when I think of some of the stupid lines I repeated in class (that I heard my parents say at home).  I see a lot of people in High School in this same stage, jumping out on a limb in the middle of a class to defend a view point they do not fully comprehend.  One of my most cringe-worthy members, however, is tied to my first crush.  I was a very earnest kid, and took what my Sunday school teachers told me very seriously.  You can imagine the unsettling mix of emotions I was slapped with when she told me she was a "Wiccan Mormon" (I never found out the back story here).  I think this experience might have played into my awkwardness around girls, which I didn't get over until relatively recently.

On politics, I remember voting for McCain in the 8th grade straw poll; McCain won, which was a given in suburban Georgia.  Of course, I was probably the only political aware kid at my middle school; I imagine most people's ballots were completely random.  As you can imagine, I did not experienced much opposition at this stage in my life.

The first time my views were really challenged was when I signed up at alternatehistory.com, another forum that shares a similar circle of nerds with the Atlas, and with a very vocal American Liberal bias.  There's a joke on that forum that members will have their politics, religion, or sexuality changed after a few years on the forum.  My politics slid left and my religion slipped away (I'm still as straight as ever, though).  As I already mentioned, my parents raised my brother and I in a variety of protestant Churches, mostly Baptist; as a young child I parroted what I was taught word for word.  Alternatehistory.com, coupled with the normal experiences of growing up in general, taught me to question the dogma society shoved down my throat.

Around this time, I began a lot of political-heavy correspondence with my grandfather.  He is a character unto himself; he raised my mother as a Godless Liberal, but converted to Christianity after his divorce and tacked hard right politically.  He is one of the smartest people I know; his college major was in psychology and his persuasive writing is top quality (he's a published author of several books).  A little character foible of his is a tendency to forward EVERYTHING that goes into his inbox to EVERYONE in his contacts list.  And so I would wake up every morning to find my inbox spammed with drivel, what I would call in all honesty right-wing propaganda.  I'm a competitive, perhaps a combative person, and so naturally I tried to counter those emails with more leftist things I was learning.  And I got smacked down.  Every.  Single.  Time.  He picked apart and destroyed my arguments.  My grandfather was really the big moderating influence on me as I dove to the left, and I credit him with making me a better writer.  Though I still politely disagree with his politics.

The next big step in my intellectual evolution came soon after I registered on the Atlas.  By that point, I had settled on the political center and labeled myself a deist.  I went through a period of religious turmoil, where I mentally persecuted myself for "turning away from God."  A sort of mental purging.  I started skipping Sunday School altogether, though I have never pushed it too far, because I know if I made my disbelief in Jesus public, my mother would be extremely depressed, perhaps even suicidal.  At the very least, I would be forced to go to some sort of religious counseling, which I would like to avoid.  Privately, I read up on a lot of eastern religions.  Confucianism, Taoism, and particularly Buddhism interested me.  I feel like I learned a lot from all of them, and I incorporated some of those principles into my life, but I don't necessarily associate with any of those belief systems.  I consider myself an agnostic; I don't claim divine knowledge and, to be frank, I really don't care about "the spiritual realm" at this point in my life.

I have experimented also with all kinds of political thought.  My manta has always been "Read everything I can get my hands on!"; I took it from my great-grandfather, a devout Baptist who owned (and read!) the Qu'ran.  To that end, I downloaded The Communist Manifesto, Das Kapital, Plato's Republic, The Prince, Art of War and a number of other books onto my iPod and read them all.  I have still got a lot of reading to do, but the more I chew through, the less I am convinced that any one ideology or religion is correct.  I may not be the best placed to judge, though.  I have not taken any higher level economics classes, though I understand more than the average Joe through reading on my own time.  I realize I am still young, and I will probably shift around a lot more, but I am unconvinced I will ever settle.

My political evolution is very similar to my religious evolution; the more I read, think and experience, the less I believe.  No ideology comes close to perfection; but I can sympathize with all of them on one gut level or another.  I can see how people's different life experiences can lead them to different sets of beliefs, political, religious, and otherwise.  That perspective robs me of the ability to settle intellectually.  I am reduced to a sort of political cynicism, poking holes in others arguments while lacking core beliefs of my own.  I am curious if I am alone here.  Do all of you have a firm core principles, or does anyone else feel like me?

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Firm convictions, regardless of truth, can often be very comfortable things. In a way you're quite courageous to not let yourself get tied to a set of beliefs regardless of your actual agreement with them. In the other hand, maybe you are tied down, just to your own indecision.[/psychobabble]

 As for me? Well you probably know my views, though their severity can vary. If I see a post I dint disagree with, there are three possible paths: ignore it, allow it to have me question my beliefs, & push against it with all my hate & gall for the other ideology which, with the hypothetical post, has seemingly proven itself all the bad things I had thought it was.

[LastVoter]

I went from an apathetic Bush hating teenager(so basically your average young in America at the time), to a firm left winger.

[Gustaf]

Yelnoc, I don't think that sounds at all unreasonable. In fact, I can somewhat sympathize with it. I think being able to see others' perspectives is very valuable and prevents one from becoming too dogmatic.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

That definitely explains some of the things you said in IRC that I was thinking were so stupid I couldn't believe them (the "Catholics are always more tolerable than Protestants", "Catholicism is just a cultural thing", "Protestants are always crazy" and the kind of "I know my evidence is purely anecdotal but I'm standing behind it" sort of thing.) It can be kind of tough to get past a background like that. I just ask that you realize that this is akin to thinking the entire US on all things is like where you grew up, obviously not true (the fact that you even said "strict Lutheran church" is proof of this) and while I'm obviously not going to claim that Minneapolis is representative of the country at large please note that I have not lived in Minneapolis my entire life.

[All Along The Watchtower]

I feel somewhat similarly, except I came from a very "progressive/Democratic" background, since both of my parents are moderately liberal Democrats. Also,  I have mixed feelings about religion; on the one hand, I understand faith providing people a lot of comfort, but on the other hand, I have a very skeptical, logical side that doesn't often mesh well with faith.

[I'm JewCon in name only.]

I think it's a young person thing Yelnoc. I often think about my religious beliefs a lot, and my political views.

I mean back in 2009, I was literally a clone of Rick Santorum, purely religious right and very moderate on economics with an ever so slight right tilt. But in 2012, I've become a lot more pro-states rights, and more economically right wing, while at the same time toning down my social conservatism.

[Yelnoc]

That definitely explains some of the things you said in IRC that I was thinking were so stupid I couldn't believe them (the "Catholics are always more tolerable than Protestants", "Catholicism is just a cultural thing", "Protestants are always crazy" and the kind of "I know my evidence is purely anecdotal but I'm standing behind it" sort of thing.) It can be kind of tough to get past a background like that. I just ask that you realize that this is akin to thinking the entire US on all things is like where you grew up, obviously not true (the fact that you even said "strict Lutheran church" is proof of this) and while I'm obviously not going to claim that Minneapolis is representative of the country at large please note that I have not lived in Minneapolis my entire life.

BRTD, at least I don't try to call my anecdotal evidence fact.  Every post you make emphasizes the bubble you live in.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

That definitely explains some of the things you said in IRC that I was thinking were so stupid I couldn't believe them (the "Catholics are always more tolerable than Protestants", "Catholicism is just a cultural thing", "Protestants are always crazy" and the kind of "I know my evidence is purely anecdotal but I'm standing behind it" sort of thing.) It can be kind of tough to get past a background like that. I just ask that you realize that this is akin to thinking the entire US on all things is like where you grew up, obviously not true (the fact that you even said "strict Lutheran church" is proof of this) and while I'm obviously not going to claim that Minneapolis is representative of the country at large please note that I have not lived in Minneapolis my entire life.

BRTD, at least I don't try to call my anecdotal evidence fact.  Every post you make emphasizes the bubble you live in.

No, but you did sort of seem to stubborningly cling to your conclusions from it regardless. I'm not going to dispute that most Protestants in the south are conservative fundamentalists. I am going to dispute that is in any way even remotely representative of the country at large.

For the record the idea of "cultural Catholicism" is a bit of a Berserk Button for me, because of all the people I know (like half of the Catholic side of my family) who have left the church and now want absolutely nothing to do with it, so that explains a lot of my posts and how I react toward things like that.

[Free Palestine]

*clap clap*

I'm too stupid and my memory is too sh**tty and my brain is generally too kerfufled for me to really talk about the evolution of my ideology.  Even simple introspection is hard -- it's hard for me to ask myself, and promptly answer, the question of "do I really feel this way?"

But, to answer your question -- I'm sort of in a state of ideological confusion.  I know that I'm on the loony radical left and that I don't give a shart about religion or all those traditional branches of philosophy like metaphysics and epistemology.  Hell, I don't even read that much.