Opinion of the European Forum posters

[Torie]

Interesting, and in general, a most accomplished and erudite lot, even if again in general rather unduly skeptical of the invisible hand.

[Mechaman]

Frankly, I would prefer him and the other arrogant not-so-nice posters on here (yes, even you Gully) to say the Barney and Friends Forum.

Oh, I have no problem with bluntness or rudeness when it's accompanied by something of substance. It's popping into a thread just to go "Bleh!" that bothers me.

And yes, of course Al is a valuable contributor despite this tendency. But I tend to frequent the forum's dark underbelly, avoiding upscale areas (like International Elections) where I suspect his contributions are most evident.

I get what you're saying man.

Yeah, he does do that quite a bit, but I don't think it's cancerous yet.

[minionofmidas]

Bleh.

[Gustaf]

It's fitting, as I've always thought that Great Britain looks like a scheming villain in profile:

That's patently wrong. It looks like a happy, goofy character. The Northernmost bay on the Scottish East coast or whatever looks like eyes and the one below it like a mouth.

I'm up to one explicitly negative remark so far and probably two or three implicitly. Another good day!

[Redalgo]

Most of the non-U.S. posters here - the Europeans included - are FFs from my perspective who have valuable insights to share and make very substantive contributions. The forum would probably be worse off and almost certainly less interesting to me if not for their regular presence.

[Mr. Morden]

It's fitting, as I've always thought that Great Britain looks like a scheming villain in profile:

That's patently wrong. It looks like a happy, goofy character. The Northernmost bay on the Scottish East coast or whatever looks like eyes and the one below it like a mouth.

No, no, no.  At least in the map version on Atlas posted above, the face is actually the negative white part to the left of Great Britain.  That is, the face is in profile looking to the right, and Northern Ireland is the eye, the Irish Sea is the nose, the southwest corner of Wales is the open mouth, and the Bristol Channel is this weird lip piercing sticking out of the lower lip.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

It's fitting, as I've always thought that Great Britain looks like a scheming villain in profile:

No.



Alun is the man with an axe.

[Smid]

The average European poster is of a higher calibre than the average poster.

I agree that the villain interpretation of the map of the UK is the most accurate, in my mind, but the Strange Maps Blog had an interesting article/post on the savage face out there in the Irish Sea. Most of you have probably already seen it, but I've linked to it for anyone who hasn't.

[dead0man]

Mostly FP.  Some good, some bad, some pointless.  I've come to accept the fact that most Euros have an odd superiority complex over America and Americans.  At first it's sad and confusing, then annoying but, like with most things of this nature, eventually it's pretty easy to sit back and laugh at them and their backwards ways.

[Franzl]

Mostly FP.  Some good, some bad, some pointless.  I've come to accept the fact that most Euros have an odd superiority complex over America and Americans.  At first it's sad and confusing, then annoying but, like with most things of this nature, eventually it's pretty easy to sit back and laugh at them and their backwards ways.

While this is undoubtedly true in many cases, I find the American superiority complex at least as equally present. Not necessarily directed directly towards Europe (although it can be), but rather a feeling of superiority towards the entire world. You know, some fat diabetic evangelical from Oklahoma that watches FOX "news" and votes exclusively for "pro-life" candidates, will then go on about being "the freest and best country in the history of the world...the French wait a year to see a doctor!".

Sterotypical, of course, but there is indeed a common feeling of superiority among the majority of Americans, in my experience.

[dead0man]

True, but you generally don't run into those types of people on this type of internet group.  This kind of place attracts a smarter, more "worldly" kind of person.  From both here and Europe.  The smarter, more worldly Americans at best think America is one of the best countries out of a whole mess of good countries and at worst, thinks America is pure evil.  We certainly have our share of those here.  I'd guess more Americans here think America sucks than think America is the greatest country on Earth (but I could be wrong...the "America sucks" crowd is awful loud and beats the same drum over and over again).

So yeah, the average American probably thinks America is the greatest country ever, but the average American poster here doesn't.  The average Euro probably thinks Europe is tits AND the average Euro poster here thinks the same.

..and all of that is not to say that in some ways, Europe isn't better...of course it is.  If those ways are important to you, then sure, Europe is "better".  And on that same token, America is better than Europe in some ways.  If those ways are important to you then, obviously, America is "better".  To deny either is ignorant.  The impression I get from most Euros here (and other places I run into them...and these are also normally places you'd expect to find smarter, more worldly types) is that America is better at nothing than Europe...except all the violence we have (and other cheap insults).

So, basically, I expect better out of my smart, worldly Euros.

[minionofmidas]

Most of the things that suck about America suck about Western Europe too, anyways. And most of the ways that America is a good place to live in, Western Europe is too. And vice versa.
o/c there's real differences as well, but that's the basic point.

[Franzl]

True, but you generally don't run into those types of people on this type of internet group.  This kind of place attracts a smarter, more "worldly" kind of person.  From both here and Europe.  The smarter, more worldly Americans at best think America is one of the best countries out of a whole mess of good countries and at worst, thinks America is pure evil.  We certainly have our share of those here.  I'd guess more Americans here think America sucks than think America is the greatest country on Earth (but I could be wrong...the "America sucks" crowd is awful loud and beats the same drum over and over again).

So yeah, the average American probably thinks America is the greatest country ever, but the average American poster here doesn't.  The average Euro probably thinks Europe is tits AND the average Euro poster here thinks the same.

..and all of that is not to say that in some ways, Europe isn't better...of course it is.  If those ways are important to you, then sure, Europe is "better".  And on that same token, America is better than Europe in some ways.  If those ways are important to you then, obviously, America is "better".  To deny either is ignorant.  The impression I get from most Euros here (and other places I run into them...and these are also normally places you'd expect to find smarter, more worldly types) is that America is better at nothing than Europe...except all the violence we have (and other cheap insults).

So, basically, I expect better out of my smart, worldly Euros.

Very true, it's entirely a matter of perspective...what you consider important and desirable. (What I find problematic is that a lot of the "USA USA USA" crowd doesn't have any real perspective because they don't know any alternative. Although admittedly, and to be fair, a lot of the strongest USA critics in Europe also don't know and understand the country too well.)

That said, both sides of the Atlantic have their pros and cons. I guess I've come to the conclusion that, domestically, the various European models do indeed provide better lives for more people, percentage wise, than the American economic and social model does. There are just some national disgraces such as the way...let's say....healthcare and education are run, that just aren't possibly in the interest of the majority of people. Sure America has the best of both (although outside of certain elite medical institutions and universities (i.e. Ivy League), the difference isn't all that great...but ok, America has a legitimate claim to having the best the world offers.

The problem is access. I think that's what most Europeans can't understand. And I think that's truly one of the things that causes Europeans to feel superior in a lot of areas. (i.e. "we manage to provide people what they need and still balance the budget...", etc.).

Although, on a more positive and optimistic note regarding both North America and Europe. The best thing that both offer is the possibility to pack up and leave if you don't like where you are.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Deadman, I can assure that the average European hardly thinks of "Europe" (and certainly doesn't think of himself as "European" except perhaps in a very vague way). Something which can't be said for the Anglo-North Americans (who aren't Canadians).

[dead0man]

Of course not.  You guys act superior to each other more than you ever could to us. 

(of course the same could be said about people from different states here...people in Ohio feel much more superior to people in Michigan than they do to people in France...unless they are from a place with an inferiority complex like Boston!)

[freefair]

My fellow Brits (Yorkshire Liberal, Harry Hayfeild, etc) and Europeans are all likable, smart people.
We do tend to restrict ourselves to the International Discussion and Election boards, though. I could do with visiting there forums more often.
Most Americans and Canadians on here are also smart.

[ZuWo]

The problem is access. I think that's what most Europeans can't understand. And I think that's truly one of the things that causes Europeans to feel superior in a lot of areas. (i.e. "we manage to provide people what they need and still balance the budget...", etc.).

Eh, which Europe are you talking about here?

[Franzl]

The problem is access. I think that's what most Europeans can't understand. And I think that's truly one of the things that causes Europeans to feel superior in a lot of areas. (i.e. "we manage to provide people what they need and still balance the budget...", etc.).

Eh, which Europe are you talking about here?

Well....Germany. (Almost.)

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

We disagree on alot of things, but I like most of them. FEP.

[Platypus]

Gee whiz, it isn't possible the best place in the world might be outside of Western Europe or North America...

[batmacumba]

Gee whiz, it isn't possible the best place in the world might be outside of Western Europe or North America...

That's what happens when you're a western and northern country and you're not in the west, neither in the north. No one cares if you exist. And You're probably just a Canada without an awful weather, anyway.

[minionofmidas]

Gee whiz, it isn't possible the best place in the world might be outside of Western Europe or North America...

That is quite possible.

But I can assure you the best place in the world is not located under Indonesia's underbelly.

[Smid]

The number of times I heard on the Atlasia boards, while discussing game reform "Read the title of the website - it's the US Election Atlas, not the European Election Atlas, we're not going to adopt some foreign system" implies to me that some American posters can be quite insular and voice feelings of superiority of the US system without having any knowledge, or even curiosity, of the ways other countries elect their governments.

Edit: Certainly not a majority, I'm not trying to imply that, but much more blatant, when present, in US posters (possibly because of the knowledge that they constitute a majority?).

[politicus]

Gee whiz, it isn't possible the best place in the world might be outside of Western Europe or North America...

That is quite possible.

But I can assure you the best place in the world is not located under Indonesia's underbelly.

I disagree. Oz is no. 1 in most relevant categories.

[Oakvale]

Gee whiz, it isn't possible the best place in the world might be outside of Western Europe or North America...

True, Costa Rica isn't in either of those places.