Missouri caucuses won't include a straw poll
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  Missouri caucuses won't include a straw poll
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Author Topic: Missouri caucuses won't include a straw poll  (Read 14398 times)
Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #75 on: March 18, 2012, 07:52:11 AM »

I'm taking it that this is another epic fail in democracy?

What can be more democratic then "No filming" and "SWAT Teams" to back it up with? Wink
 

Awarding delegates in proportion to how voters voted during the primary (since given the many problems that have occurred with Republican caucus' this cycle and the general absurdity of the caucus system).
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #76 on: March 18, 2012, 08:44:42 AM »

I'm taking it that this is another epic fail in democracy?

What can be more democratic then "No filming" and "SWAT Teams" to back it up with? Wink
 

Awarding delegates in proportion to how voters voted during the primary (since given the many problems that have occurred with Republican caucus' this cycle and the general absurdity of the caucus system).

A primary which no one contested except for one candidate who badly needed a boost precisely because the state decided ahead of time it would be meaningless. Had the delegates been tied to that, the results probably would have been different. To hold that up as being, the "democratic" thing to do at this point, is a mistake.
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« Reply #77 on: March 18, 2012, 10:56:03 AM »

Yeah you can't hold a "non-binding" primary and then go and retroactively make it count. Same situation as 2008 when J. J. and Hillary Is 44 were arguing to seat the delegates in Florida and Michigan as elected, Michigan being the more absurd of those two. In this case it'd be even more absurd since there's no standard for how delegates would be assigned, so deciding on a delegate allocation method would also be blatantly beneficial toward a certain candidate.

I think the whole reason Missouri had the non-binding primary is it was already scheduled there but would violate RNC rules and be subject to sanctions. So there was an attempt to have it moved forward, but the GOP-controlled State House and State Senate deadlocked, weren't able to meet the deadline, and the caucus had to be set up instead to assign delegates. So basically blame Republicans' inability to govern for this.
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #78 on: March 18, 2012, 11:27:43 AM »

Yeah you can't hold a "non-binding" primary and then go and retroactively make it count. Same situation as 2008 when J. J. and Hillary Is 44 were arguing to seat the delegates in Florida and Michigan as elected, Michigan being the more absurd of those two. In this case it'd be even more absurd since there's no standard for how delegates would be assigned, so deciding on a delegate allocation method would also be blatantly beneficial toward a certain candidate.

I think the whole reason Missouri had the non-binding primary is it was already scheduled there but would violate RNC rules and be subject to sanctions. So there was an attempt to have it moved forward, but the GOP-controlled State House and State Senate deadlocked, weren't able to meet the deadline, and the caucus had to be set up instead to assign delegates. So basically blame Republicans' inability to govern for this.

Fair enough
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J. J.
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« Reply #79 on: March 18, 2012, 11:40:59 AM »

Yeah you can't hold a "non-binding" primary and then go and retroactively make it count. Same situation as 2008 when J. J. and Hillary Is 44 were arguing to seat the delegates in Florida and Michigan as elected, Michigan being the more absurd of those two. In this case it'd be even more absurd since there's no standard for how delegates would be assigned, so deciding on a delegate allocation method would also be blatantly beneficial toward a certain candidate.

I think the whole reason Missouri had the non-binding primary is it was already scheduled there but would violate RNC rules and be subject to sanctions. So there was an attempt to have it moved forward, but the GOP-controlled State House and State Senate deadlocked, weren't able to meet the deadline, and the caucus had to be set up instead to assign delegates. So basically blame Republicans' inability to govern for this.

I'm not thrilled about this either.  Nor am I thrilled about the PA situation.
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RI
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« Reply #80 on: March 18, 2012, 12:20:38 PM »

Here's the best total I can probably come up with:

Delegates (49/142):
332 Santorum
242 Paul
213 Romney
32 Uncommitted
8 Gingrich
(21 Unknown)
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Ben Kenobi
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« Reply #81 on: March 18, 2012, 02:44:53 PM »

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If VA counts, then so should MO.
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« Reply #82 on: March 18, 2012, 02:59:44 PM »

The difference is everyone knew VA would count ahead of time, the other candidates just epic failed at making the ballot. Missouri had some candidates not attempt and others not campaign.
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Smash255
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« Reply #83 on: March 18, 2012, 03:01:12 PM »

Here's the best total I can probably come up with:

Delegates (49/142):
332 Santorum
242 Paul
213 Romney
32 Uncommitted
8 Gingrich
(21 Unknown)

Where are you getting that from?
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RI
realisticidealist
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« Reply #84 on: March 18, 2012, 03:04:03 PM »

Here's the best total I can probably come up with:

Delegates (49/142):
332 Santorum
242 Paul
213 Romney
32 Uncommitted
8 Gingrich
(21 Unknown)

Where are you getting that from?

Scrapped together from Twitter, forums, newspaper articles. Anything I can find.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #85 on: March 18, 2012, 07:13:26 PM »

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If VA counts, then so should MO.

The standard of comparison you have established here is ridiculously beyond all sense of objectivity. The situations are completely different.
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Хahar 🤔
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« Reply #86 on: March 18, 2012, 08:43:18 PM »

Can somebody make a map of this?
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RI
realisticidealist
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« Reply #87 on: March 18, 2012, 09:20:45 PM »
« Edited: March 18, 2012, 09:24:26 PM by realisticidealist »


It's really, really ugly, and I don't know how much it would tell us. But here is what I have anyway:



Romney is barely beating Santorum in St. Louis County from the results I have. However, they don't include Chesterfield which went big for Santorum, so he probably won it in the end.
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Matthew
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« Reply #88 on: March 18, 2012, 09:59:19 PM »

A rought guess on how the delegates would break down?
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Bacon King
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« Reply #89 on: March 19, 2012, 12:48:10 AM »

Here's the best total I can probably come up with:

Delegates (49/142):
332 Santorum
242 Paul
213 Romney
32 Uncommitted
8 Gingrich
(21 Unknown)

The spreadsheet from the Ron Paul forum appears to have some different locales included than you; they have a total of Paul 307, Romney 278, Santorum 271, Gingrich 14

eridox.com/temp/MOGOPCaucusResults.xlsx

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RI
realisticidealist
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« Reply #90 on: March 19, 2012, 01:16:16 AM »
« Edited: March 19, 2012, 01:37:26 AM by realisticidealist »

Here's the best total I can probably come up with:

Delegates (49/142):
332 Santorum
242 Paul
213 Romney
32 Uncommitted
8 Gingrich
(21 Unknown)

The spreadsheet from the Ron Paul forum appears to have some different locales included than you; they have a total of Paul 307, Romney 278, Santorum 271, Gingrich 14

eridox.com/temp/MOGOPCaucusResults.xlsx


Yeah, I had a fair few more results than they did, and they counted the alternates in Taney County, giving Paul more than he should have. They also counted votes in Tesson Ferry rather than delegates, and I'm not sure the Jefferson County numbers are right; the MOGOP allocation doc gave the county 74 delegates, not 126. Romney did get a majority though there. They did have some I didn't though. Adding those in, I get:

Delegates (55/142):
414 Santorum
310 Romney
297 Paul
32 Uncommitted
9 Gingrich

New map:
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RI
realisticidealist
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« Reply #91 on: March 19, 2012, 01:30:36 AM »

Here's my spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aofev0ik3wSudGdoOXBETjFzQ2s3THVsNU00amdoX1E#gid=0
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Хahar 🤔
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« Reply #92 on: March 19, 2012, 01:32:46 AM »

You're the best.
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Landslide Lyndon
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« Reply #93 on: March 19, 2012, 01:37:32 AM »

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Keystone Phil
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« Reply #94 on: March 19, 2012, 10:32:59 AM »

So when the hell do we find out who actually won this damn contest? This upcoming Saturday?
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RI
realisticidealist
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« Reply #95 on: March 19, 2012, 10:38:35 AM »

So when the hell do we find out who actually won this damn contest? This upcoming Saturday?

We won't officially "know" until the state convention. They aren't going to release results for the caucuses.
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Keystone Phil
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« Reply #96 on: March 19, 2012, 10:39:42 AM »

So when the hell do we find out who actually won this damn contest? This upcoming Saturday?

We won't officially "know" until the state convention. They aren't going to release results for the caucuses.

And when is that?
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RI
realisticidealist
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« Reply #97 on: March 19, 2012, 10:43:00 AM »

So when the hell do we find out who actually won this damn contest? This upcoming Saturday?

We won't officially "know" until the state convention. They aren't going to release results for the caucuses.

And when is that?

June 2.
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Erc
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« Reply #98 on: March 19, 2012, 10:45:19 AM »

So when the hell do we find out who actually won this damn contest? This upcoming Saturday?

We won't officially "know" until the state convention. They aren't going to release results for the caucuses.

And when is that?

June 2.

CD delegates are chosen April 21---slightly under half of the total delegation, and it should give us a better idea of how the State Convention might play out.
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Keystone Phil
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« Reply #99 on: March 19, 2012, 10:49:05 AM »

This is officially the worst system of the season.
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