The GOP War on Women - The Megathread
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  The GOP War on Women - The Megathread
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Joe Republic
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« on: March 16, 2012, 11:46:30 PM »

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Joe Republic
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« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2012, 12:00:33 AM »

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Joe Republic
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« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2012, 12:05:16 AM »

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Joe Republic
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« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2012, 12:09:53 AM »

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John Dibble
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« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2012, 11:18:43 AM »

http://www.texasobserver.org/cover-story/the-right-not-to-know

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Badger
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« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2012, 11:58:35 AM »

None of this is by any means 'the extreme' wing of the party anymore.

Aren't any of you with a brain and a heart ashamed?!?
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TJ in Oregon
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« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2012, 01:18:59 PM »

The single motherhood bill is pretty stupid and they probably shouldn't be holding the domestic violence bill hostage but otherwise I'm fine with this.

Abortion is murder (which many of you disagree with but nevertheless consider the consequences of that statement for a moment). That means somewhat extraordinary means can be used to stop it from occurring. Planned Parenthood murders 1.5% of its patients, so I have absolutely no problem with making is more difficult for them to get money.
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bgwah
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« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2012, 01:26:50 PM »

At least Republicans support universal healthcare to assist families they want to force to have sick and crippled children. Oh, wait...

At least Republicans support gay marriage so loving gay parents could take on some of those extra babies. Oh, wait...

Republicans don't fool me for one second. They are the anti-family party.
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shua
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« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2012, 03:23:08 PM »

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"Obama's War on Medicaid Recipients" would be more accurate (not that that's saying much . . .)
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John Dibble
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« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2012, 03:38:43 PM »

The single motherhood bill is pretty stupid and they probably shouldn't be holding the domestic violence bill hostage but otherwise I'm fine with this.

Abortion is murder (which many of you disagree with but nevertheless consider the consequences of that statement for a moment). That means somewhat extraordinary means can be used to stop it from occurring.

And should women who don't want to abort but need to do so for medical reasons be forced to go through extra hoops to make the experience even more traumatic? Because that's what is happening.

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Planned Parenthood receive exactly 0 dollars from the government to fund abortions. What's being taken away from are programs that allow women to not get pregnant in the first place so they wouldn't have to consider an abortion and to ensure that babies they want are born healthy. In other words you'll still have the abortions, but you're taking away things that might actually prevent abortions - how exactly is that a good thing?
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John Dibble
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« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2012, 03:47:42 PM »

http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/6KUPje/www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/03/09/georgia-lawmaker-compares-women-to-cows-and-pigs/

Terry England, Georgia Republican Lawmaker, Compares Women To Farm Animals

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Video in the link. My state government is a sick joke.
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Badger
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« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2012, 04:03:09 PM »

The single motherhood bill is pretty stupid and they probably shouldn't be holding the domestic violence bill hostage but otherwise I'm fine with this.

Abortion is murder (which many of you disagree with but nevertheless consider the consequences of that statement for a moment). That means somewhat extraordinary means can be used to stop it from occurring. Planned Parenthood murders 1.5% of its patients, so I have absolutely no problem with making is more difficult for them to get money.

Just so we're clear: You're advocating the punishment for murder--15 to life in Ohio-for any woman that knowingly terminates her pregnancy? I likewise presume that you support mandatory bindover to the adult court system for any juvenile teenage girl who commits Murder (again, as is the law in Ohio)?
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Negusa Nagast 🚀
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« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2012, 04:07:22 PM »



Abortion is murder (which many of you disagree with but nevertheless consider the consequences of that statement for a moment). That means somewhat extraordinary means can be used to stop it from occurring. Planned Parenthood murders 1.5% of its patients, so I have absolutely no problem with making is more difficult for them to get money.

The last time I checked, a cluster of undifferentiated stem cells did not constitute a person. Let's take those out of the womb and watch them survive.
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Rooney
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« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2012, 04:16:57 PM »

The Democrats pushing this "War on Women" issue is tiresome. Everyone knows Republicans have issues with women, why do they have to talk about it all the time? They remind me a great deal of the man who was angered at a dog barking at him and beat the dog to death. After the dog was dead the man continued to beat the corpse of the dead dog. "Hey, why are you hitting that dog?" a neighbor asked, "It is already dead!" "I know," the man responded, "But I believe in punishment after death."   
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John Dibble
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« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2012, 04:18:49 PM »

The Democrats pushing this "War on Women" issue is tiresome. Everyone knows Republicans have issues with women, why do they have to talk about it all the time?

Because if they don't the Republicans will get away with it, duh. You don't just ignore an issue like this if you want it to go away.
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Badger
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« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2012, 04:21:34 PM »

The Democrats pushing this "War on Women" issue is tiresome. Everyone knows Republicans have issues with women, why do they have to talk about it all the time?

Because if they don't the Republicans will get away with it, duh. You don't just ignore an issue like this if you want it to go away.

QFT.

Never used that term before, but this post deserved it.
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Rooney
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« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2012, 04:27:23 PM »

The Democrats pushing this "War on Women" issue is tiresome. Everyone knows Republicans have issues with women, why do they have to talk about it all the time?

Because if they don't the Republicans will get away with it, duh. You don't just ignore an issue like this if you want it to go away.

QFT.

Never used that term before, but this post deserved it.
Yes, but is there not the slightest chance that the wagging of this issue may be easily spun by Republicans as one brought up ONLY to distract from the economy thus minimizing the rights of women to a mere campaign side-show? Is that really in the best interest of the community?
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John Dibble
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« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2012, 05:30:36 PM »

The Democrats pushing this "War on Women" issue is tiresome. Everyone knows Republicans have issues with women, why do they have to talk about it all the time?

Because if they don't the Republicans will get away with it, duh. You don't just ignore an issue like this if you want it to go away.

QFT.

Never used that term before, but this post deserved it.

Yes, but is there not the slightest chance that the wagging of this issue may be easily spun by Republicans as one brought up ONLY to distract from the economy thus minimizing the rights of women to a mere campaign side-show? Is that really in the best interest of the community?

I don't think there's any good way the Republicans can spin people pointing out the problems with their women's rights issues in a way that favors them. They are losing women voters over this.

As far as the economy I don't believe it's been forgotten, nor ever will be. It is always a central issue in any major race, regardless of the other issues de jour. The issue still comes up. I also don't believe the Republicans really have the answers the our economic woes.

Also, ignoring women's rights issues is definitely not in the best interests of the community. Especially the female part.
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Oakvale
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« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2012, 06:27:30 PM »

I'm glad we have a single thread for all this stuff, since there's no sign of the GOP slowing its recent streak of bizarre mysoginistic initiatives, so we can probably expect much, much more of this kind of thing.

No it's the Democratic War on Women because they're the ones trying to exploit them for voter sympathy. First it was abortion and when the Democrats lost on that, they ran to the courts for help. Then it was women's health and when Obamacare wasn't popular they turned the issue into contraceptives. Next, they'll be focusing on PMS pills and talking about how Republicans don't want to help women with PMS. This is what Democrats do. They exploit people in the name of equality!!! Our founding fathers vision for this nation and reasons for fighting in the revolutionary war had nothing to do with where college girls get their contraceptives. They were also wise to not put anything of it in the constitution or Declaration of Independence. I could care less where Suzie gets her birth control. There, someone had the guts to say it. Now you can demonize me as well.

YOU MEAN TO TELL ME GEORGE WASHINGTON NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT BIRTH CONTROL PILLS?!



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TJ in Oregon
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« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2012, 07:03:59 PM »

The single motherhood bill is pretty stupid and they probably shouldn't be holding the domestic violence bill hostage but otherwise I'm fine with this.

Abortion is murder (which many of you disagree with but nevertheless consider the consequences of that statement for a moment). That means somewhat extraordinary means can be used to stop it from occurring. Planned Parenthood murders 1.5% of its patients, so I have absolutely no problem with making is more difficult for them to get money.

Just so we're clear: You're advocating the punishment for murder--15 to life in Ohio-for any woman that knowingly terminates her pregnancy? I likewise presume that you support mandatory bindover to the adult court system for any juvenile teenage girl who commits Murder (again, as is the law in Ohio)?

Yes, that would be the eventual goal. I understand many people find such an idea to be too much and would therefore support any intermediate steps to move in that direction.
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John Dibble
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« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2012, 08:40:28 PM »

The single motherhood bill is pretty stupid and they probably shouldn't be holding the domestic violence bill hostage but otherwise I'm fine with this.

Abortion is murder (which many of you disagree with but nevertheless consider the consequences of that statement for a moment). That means somewhat extraordinary means can be used to stop it from occurring. Planned Parenthood murders 1.5% of its patients, so I have absolutely no problem with making is more difficult for them to get money.

Just so we're clear: You're advocating the punishment for murder--15 to life in Ohio-for any woman that knowingly terminates her pregnancy? I likewise presume that you support mandatory bindover to the adult court system for any juvenile teenage girl who commits Murder (again, as is the law in Ohio)?

Yes, that would be the eventual goal. I understand many people find such an idea to be too much and would therefore support any intermediate steps to move in that direction.

In other words, you consider abortion murder but it's apparently not such a big deal that you insist it be treated like actual murder. You are fine with compromising on murder. How moral of you...
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shua
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« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2012, 05:33:11 AM »

The single motherhood bill is pretty stupid and they probably shouldn't be holding the domestic violence bill hostage but otherwise I'm fine with this.

Abortion is murder (which many of you disagree with but nevertheless consider the consequences of that statement for a moment). That means somewhat extraordinary means can be used to stop it from occurring. Planned Parenthood murders 1.5% of its patients, so I have absolutely no problem with making is more difficult for them to get money.

Just so we're clear: You're advocating the punishment for murder--15 to life in Ohio-for any woman that knowingly terminates her pregnancy? I likewise presume that you support mandatory bindover to the adult court system for any juvenile teenage girl who commits Murder (again, as is the law in Ohio)?

Yes, that would be the eventual goal. I understand many people find such an idea to be too much and would therefore support any intermediate steps to move in that direction.

In other words, you consider abortion murder but it's apparently not such a big deal that you insist it be treated like actual murder. You are fine with compromising on murder. How moral of you...
There's more than one account of morality, obviously.  The sort of all-or-nothing deontology you are assuming is only one account.  If someone believes an act is horrible, then it's not necessarily immoral for them to approve of the nearest thing that will stop it just because it's not prosecuting it to the fullest.  Indeed, there's a sense in which refusing to act to stop murder due to concerns of legal consistency is itself a compromise with murder.
I'll go further than TJ here.  If there's any other way to stop abortion, I'd rather women not be sentenced a murderer's sentence for it. They're told that what they are doing isn't killing, they are pressured into it, etc. (I know this point has gotten me called condescending in the past, but whatever . . .)  The fundamental value here is not prosecuting murder, it is protection of innocent life. Having a juvenile justice system doesn't mean a murder isn't as awful just because there's a different legal response.  I imagine you think Truth and Reconciliation Commission was immoral because it wasn't the full Nuremburg treatment, but many people who had to live with real world consequences believe that for peace and healing it was the right thing to do.
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John Dibble
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« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2012, 10:05:03 AM »

The single motherhood bill is pretty stupid and they probably shouldn't be holding the domestic violence bill hostage but otherwise I'm fine with this.

Abortion is murder (which many of you disagree with but nevertheless consider the consequences of that statement for a moment). That means somewhat extraordinary means can be used to stop it from occurring. Planned Parenthood murders 1.5% of its patients, so I have absolutely no problem with making is more difficult for them to get money.

Just so we're clear: You're advocating the punishment for murder--15 to life in Ohio-for any woman that knowingly terminates her pregnancy? I likewise presume that you support mandatory bindover to the adult court system for any juvenile teenage girl who commits Murder (again, as is the law in Ohio)?

Yes, that would be the eventual goal. I understand many people find such an idea to be too much and would therefore support any intermediate steps to move in that direction.

In other words, you consider abortion murder but it's apparently not such a big deal that you insist it be treated like actual murder. You are fine with compromising on murder. How moral of you...
There's more than one account of morality, obviously.  The sort of all-or-nothing deontology you are assuming is only one account.  If someone believes an act is horrible, then it's not necessarily immoral for them to approve of the nearest thing that will stop it just because it's not prosecuting it to the fullest.  Indeed, there's a sense in which refusing to act to stop murder due to concerns of legal consistency is itself a compromise with murder.
I'll go further than TJ here.  If there's any other way to stop abortion, I'd rather women not be sentenced a murderer's sentence for it. They're told that what they are doing isn't killing, they are pressured into it, etc. (I know this point has gotten me called condescending in the past, but whatever . . .)  The fundamental value here is not prosecuting murder, it is protection of innocent life. Having a juvenile justice system doesn't mean a murder isn't as awful just because there's a different legal response.  I imagine you think Truth and Reconciliation Commission was immoral because it wasn't the full Nuremburg treatment, but many people who had to live with real world consequences believe that for peace and healing it was the right thing to do.

I don't think you get what I'm actually saying - I'm saying that if he thinks it's ok to just dawdle and compromise over what he views as mass murder, then I don't think he actually views it as murder. IMO, his actions and attitude do not carry the same weight as someone who is dealing with mass murder within his own country.

Also, the TRC vs Nuremburg thing isn't an apt comparison to this issue - those were dealing with atrocities after they occurred. We're talking about something that is still occurring and will continue to occur.
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Purch
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« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2012, 10:12:19 AM »

I never include Abortion as part of the " War on women", because I personally believe protecting women's sexual freedom ( Contraceptives, birth control) is a completely different issue than fighting against the killing of babies.  Contraceptives represent basic rights that should be protected for women, whiles I feel abortion overrides the rights of a Child to life. When you impede on someone Else's rights I feel it's morally wrong especially when it comes to whether or not they're allowed to live (Which is the same reason I'm against the death penalty).  
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John Dibble
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« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2012, 10:17:44 AM »

I never include Abortion as part of the " War on women", because I personally believe protecting women's sexual freedom ( Contraceptives, birth control) is a completely different issue than fighting against the killing of babies.  Contraceptives represent basic rights that should be protected for women, whiles I feel abortion overrides the rights of a Child to life. When you impede on someone Else's rights I feel it's morally wrong especially when it comes to whether or not they're allowed to live (Which is the same reason I'm against the death penalty).  

Dude, we're not just talking about abortions for convenience - these people are trying to restrict abortions in cases of medical necessity. In the process they are also defunding organizations that help with contraceptives and healthy birthing, which is not going to decrease the number of abortions since none of that funding goes to abortions. Women are the ones who are affected most by this. Read the posted articles.
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