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| | |-+  Protesters rally over Florida teen's death, demand arrest (search mode)
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Author Topic: Protesters rally over Florida teen's death, demand arrest  (Read 14426 times)
Ogre Mage
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« on: March 25, 2012, 10:50:40 pm »

How could Zimmerman be "standing his ground" in "self-defense" when he went off in pursuit of an unarmed teenager -- a decision which went against both what the 911 dispatcher told him and general neighborhood watch protocol?  In fact, neighborhood watch is not supposed to carry firearms.  This isn't even a case where Zimmerman saw Martin on his property.  He just decided he looked "suspicious" and now the result is a dead unarmed teenager.

The local police failed to perform a real investigation in this case.  They did a drug and alcohol test on the victim but not the shooter.  They let Zimmerman go home with the gun used in the shooting.  This is beyond pathetic.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2012, 10:53:52 pm by Ogre Mage »Logged
Ogre Mage
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« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2012, 03:07:35 am »

How could Zimmerman be "standing his ground" in "self-defense" when he went off in pursuit of an unarmed teenager -- a decision which went against both what the 911 dispatcher told him and general neighborhood watch protocol?  In fact, neighborhood watch is not supposed to carry firearms.  This isn't even a case where Zimmerman saw Martin on his property.  He just decided he looked "suspicious" and now the result is a dead unarmed teenager.
He was not on a neighborhood watch, he was in his car when he saw Martin and called the police.  He had a CHL, and if you are going to carry, it makes sense to always carry.

He did not pursue Martin.  After Martin started running, he apparently was driving along a street, and the dispatcher asked if he were following Martin.  He said yes, the dispatcher said that "we don't need you to do that", to which Zimmerman responded "OK".

The phone call lasted another 1-1/2 minutes.  So either Zimmerman had stopped; the dispatcher thought he had stopped; or the dispatcher thought it wasn't that important.

He later got out of his car.


First off, whether Zimmerman was on official watch duty at the moment or not is not an excuse to break accepted neighborhood watch protocol.  He pursued a suspect with his gun, neither of which he should have done.  As a member of the neighborhood watch he should have been well aware of the proper procedure.  He is not a law enforcement officer.  

Quote
Zimmerman's actions were against guidelines followed by countless volunteer programs across the United States, according to the National Sheriffs' Association, a nonprofit which officially launched the Neighborhood Watch Program in 1972.

In a recent statement, Aaron D. Kennard, the association's executive director, referred to Zimmerman as a "self-appointed neighborhood watchman" who "significantly contradicts the principles" of watch programs.

Kennard said the association had no record of Zimmerman's group registering as a neighborhood watch.

"The alleged participant ignored everything the Neighborhood Watch Program stands for, and it resulted in a young man losing his life," Kennard wrote.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/fl-neighborhood-watch-groups-warned-20120322,0,6874439.story

Your statement that he did not pursue Martin is false.  Per the 911 tapes, he admitted he was in pursuit of Martin (the dispatcher asked if he was following Martin and he said "yeah").  When the 911 dispatcher told him to stop he said "okay" but I am skeptical that he actually stopped -- the continued sound of his heavy breathing suggests that wasn't the case.  And if he was not pursuing Martin, why did he get out of his car?  Furthermore, Zimmerman's account of events is contradicted by Martin's girlfriend, who was on the phone with him at the time the shooting occurred:

Quote
"He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man," Martin's friend said. "I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run, but he said he was not going to run."

Eventually, he would run, said the girl, thinking that he'd managed to escape. But suddenly the strange man was back, cornering Martin.

"Trayvon said, 'What are you following me for,' and the man said, 'What are you doing here.' Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again, and he didn't answer the phone."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-death-friend-phone-teen-death-recounts/story?id=15959017#.T3FxWdWyGQ0

As for your apparent assertion that the Sanford Police conducted a fair investigation, I will respond to that later when I have time.  Needless to say I could not disagree more.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2012, 03:49:59 am by Ogre Mage »Logged
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« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2012, 01:55:54 am »

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You claimed that Zimmerman should not have been carrying a gun since he was on neighborhood watch.  But he wasn't on neighborhood watch.  He was going to the store.  I seriously doubt that people involved in neighborhood watch are told not to report strange or suspicious activity that they observe when going to work or driving.

He did not pursue Martin.  It is your fantasy that the 250 pound 28 YO 5'9 guy outran the 6'0 160 pound 17 YO until he got close enough to shoot him at close range.

He saw someone who appeared to be walking about, just looking at houses, who fit the description of those who had committed burglaries in the area.  he called the police.  He gave them a description.  He said that Martin had started to run.

He was in his truck and he started to follow.  If the engine was running, he might just have put the truck into gear and been creeping along at 5 MPH.  The dispatcher somehow figured this out.  Maybe he can figure it out from the phone cells, maybe he could hear the engine running.  Maybe he was just intuitive.

The dispatch asked Zimmerman if he were following Martin.  Zimmerman immediately said "yeah", and when the dispatcher reminded that "we don't need you to do that".  Zimmerman immediately said "OK".

He did not pursue after being told not to.  To the contrary, he immediately acknowledged the recommendation.   The phone call continued for another 1-1/2, and there is no evidence that Martin remained in sight.

"Pursue" is not the same as "follow?"  Whatever.  Well then he was "following" Martin.  And would any of this have happened if he had NOT "followed" Martin? (with a gun)

It is your conjecture that he followed the instructions of the dispatcher to stop looking for Martin.  Many would disagree with you.  Are you really assuming he did just because he "okay."  Hard to believe given that he got out of his car with his gun and the person he was following is now dead.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2012, 02:08:02 am by Ogre Mage »Logged
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« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2012, 02:07:18 am »

Zimmerman's father is now saying that Trayvon Martin threatened to kill his son:

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"Trayvon Martin said something to the effect of you're going to die now or you're going to die tonight, something to that effect," Robert Zimmerman told Orlando TV station WOFL. "He continued to beat George. At some point, George pulled his pistol. Did what he did."
http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/29/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html

Maybe it is just me, but I would wager this story is not true.
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Ogre Mage
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« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2012, 02:10:50 am »

So apparently a new video is out showing Zimmerman being led in handcuffs out of the police cruiser into the station where he has no bruises or blood anywhere on him that can be seen. No bandages, his shirt is clean and dry, no sign of grass. Yes, the police report says the fire department treated him at the scene, but for a guy who's defenders have been portraying him getting decked onto the ground, and "hammered" for at least a minute possibly much longer while crying for help, he sure doesn't look the least bit scratched.
Watch in the middle of the video when the one cop is putting his jacket in the trunk of the car.  The other cop comes around and is checking the back of his head.

Quote
"The injuries that made it sound as though he really should have been on a stretcher are not apparent in this tape at all," said Marcia Clark, the former prosecutor in the O.J. Simpson trial. "He moves freely. He moves fluidly, not like someone who has just been through a beating in any way, shape or form, someone's whose head has been pounded on the pavement as hard as described, someone who's nose was broken and bleeding. That tells you a great deal."
http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/29/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html
« Last Edit: March 29, 2012, 02:33:17 am by Ogre Mage »Logged
Ogre Mage
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« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2012, 04:27:03 am »

Watch in the middle of the video when the one cop is putting his jacket in the trunk of the car. The other cop comes around and is checking the back of his head.

Quote
"The injuries that made it sound as though he really should have been on a stretcher are not apparent in this tape at all," said Marcia Clark, the former prosecutor in the O.J. Simpson trial. "He moves freely. He moves fluidly, not like someone who has just been through a beating in any way, shape or form, someone's whose head has been pounded on the pavement as hard as described, someone who's nose was broken and bleeding. That tells you a great deal."
Marcia Clark is a paid performer, and trained as a lawyer.  She would try to present things in a way that conform to people's prejudices, so that they would jump to conclusions.

Quote
I don't know why Zimmerman left his truck.  Maybe he got out of his truck to wait for the police officer, and then decided to go look behind the townhouses.

lol

Zimmerman has a history of violent behavior.  Assaulting a police officer and a domestic violence charge among other things.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/30/trayvon-martin-case-george-zimmerman_n_1392591.html?ref=mostpopular
« Last Edit: March 31, 2012, 05:52:33 am by Ogre Mage »Logged
Ogre Mage
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« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2012, 05:47:17 pm »

Two forensic voice identification experts say the cries for help on the 911 tape are NOT George Zimmerman's.

They are not able to definitely say the voice was Trayvon Martin's because they do not have a good sample of his voice.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-31/news/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-911-20120331_1_voice-identification-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty
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Ogre Mage
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« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2012, 02:51:49 am »

The whole story is so uninteresting to me I can't read any of it.......I think it was memphis who noted that there's no hubub elsewhere when black kids get killed daily in the U.S.

I'm sorry for the family.....and every other family who doesn't merit national attention.

Had the shooter been arrested in a timely fashion, this story would not have mushroomed to the degree that it has.  There are too many holes in Zimmerman's story and the actions of the Sanford Police look incompetent at best or a coverup at worst.  It was really the reaction of the police which pushed this story into national headlines rather than the incident itself.
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