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  The Great Nordic Thread
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Poll
Question: Will Iceland and Norway ever join the EU?
#1Iceland, but not Norway  
#2Norway, but not Iceland  
#3Both  
#4None of them  
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 153

Author Topic: The Great Nordic Thread  (Read 152921 times)
ingemann
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« Reply #400 on: December 11, 2014, 06:37:24 am »

Yes I think a no is unlikely in this vote, mostly because to vote yes is to de facto continue status quo, while a no would cause a completely new situation.
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ingemann
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« Reply #401 on: December 14, 2014, 08:57:50 am »

Copenhagen flight nearly hit by Russian military jet

http://www.thelocal.dk/20141213/copenhagen-flight-nearly-collides-with-russian-military-jet
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« Reply #402 on: December 16, 2014, 06:27:28 am »



Which area do you think is the most important one, the one politicians should focus on?


Unemployment
Immigration
Economy
Health
Environment/Climate
Education
Taxation
None of the above/don't know
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politicus
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« Reply #403 on: January 10, 2015, 04:58:02 pm »
« Edited: January 10, 2015, 05:16:40 pm by politicus »

Former Reykjavik Mayor Jon Gnarr plans to unite the Icelandic left wing by reestablishing the People's Party (Alţýđuflokkurinn), which was Iceland's trade union based SD party 1916-2000. Ironically the People's Party was dissolved after the party merged with three other leftist parties (the feminist Women's List, democratic socialist People's Alliance and breakaway SD left wing National Awakening) in 2000 to transform the 1999 Social Democratic Alliance (SDA) into a party, but after most of the members of the three latter parties broke off and founded the Left Greens half a year later the new SDA became more right wing than the old People's Party.

Uniting the Icelandic centre-left seems like an impossible dream, but then again Gnarr has done the impossible before. Even so, he would have to persuade two well established parties to unite and accept a whole new structure + overcome the fact that the experiment has already been tried in 1999-2000.

He also plans to reestablish the old SD daily (in its later years a monthly - closed in 1998) Alţýđublađiđ (the People's Paper) to break the right wing media monopoly in Iceland (except the public broadcaster RUV). He plans to create it in a 3D version, which sounds silly, but then again Gnarr wouldn't be Gnarr if there wasn't some crazy twist to his plans.
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politicus
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« Reply #404 on: January 31, 2015, 02:49:08 am »
« Edited: January 31, 2015, 03:11:56 am by Charlotte Hebdo »

After three interest rate cuts in 11 days the National Bank of Denmark has stopped issuing government bonds to prevent further increases in the value of the Danish krone.
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politicus
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« Reply #405 on: January 31, 2015, 04:15:58 am »
« Edited: January 31, 2015, 06:00:50 am by Charlotte Hebdo »

"DPP should be part of a "blue" government if they get 20% of the votes"
 - Agree: 51%
 - Disagree: 28%
 - Neither: 10%
 - Dunno: 11%

DPP voters:

55% Agree
30% Disaagree


DPP would get more political influence in government than outside?

 - Agree: 48%
 - Disagree: 36%
- Neither 8%
 - Dunno: 9%
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DavidB.
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« Reply #406 on: February 02, 2015, 01:00:42 pm »

Okay, what I don't understand is the following. What kind of people vote for the Liberal Alliance? Why do these people not simply vote for the Radikale Venstre, or, when they are more suburban and richer, for Venstre?

In the Netherlands, the country that has a political landscape probably most similar to Denmark, progressive urban cosmopolitan highly educated people vote for D66. Of course, it would be more difficult for D66 if they would be in the government like Radikale Venstre, because now D66 is clearly to the right of the VVD-PvdA government on economic issues. But still there seems to be an electoral "vacuum" on the progressive right in Denmark that has been filled by I. Is Radikale Venstre too left-wing on economic issues? Is Venstre perceived as too centrist? I'd love to hear a reply from Danish people on this.
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politicus
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« Reply #407 on: February 02, 2015, 01:21:15 pm »
« Edited: February 02, 2015, 01:25:46 pm by Charlotte Hebdo »

Okay, what I don't understand is the following. What kind of people vote for the Liberal Alliance? Why do these people not simply vote for the Radikale Venstre, or, when they are more suburban and richer, for Venstre?

In the Netherlands, the country that has a political landscape probably most similar to Denmark, progressive urban cosmopolitan highly educated people vote for D66. Of course, it would be more difficult for D66 if they would be in the government like Radikale Venstre, because now D66 is clearly to the right of the VVD-PvdA government on economic issues. But still there seems to be an electoral "vacuum" on the progressive right in Denmark that has been filled by I. Is Radikale Venstre too left-wing on economic issues? Is Venstre perceived as too centrist? I'd love to hear a reply from Danish people on this.

The Dutch and Danish political landscapes are not particularly similar - taking that as you point of departure would lead you astray.

The average Radikale voter is richer and better educated than an average Venstre voter. Venstre is especially in its core areas in Jutland a genuine peoples party with a social profile as broad as SD and lots of people with low education and average incomes. Being suburban would not make you more likely to vote Venstre than Radikale - being rural or from a small town would, but having a blue collar job would be an even stronger factor.

Liberal Alliance is the most economically right wing party in Denmark and attracts affluent private sector functionaries and libertarian students. It is significantly to the right of Radikale (and Venstre) on economics and far more libertarian on social issues than Venstre.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #408 on: February 02, 2015, 01:24:57 pm »

Maps of the last election ought to illuminate matters somewhat:


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DavidB.
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« Reply #409 on: February 02, 2015, 01:49:37 pm »
« Edited: February 02, 2015, 01:52:35 pm by DavidB. »

Okay, what I don't understand is the following. What kind of people vote for the Liberal Alliance? Why do these people not simply vote for the Radikale Venstre, or, when they are more suburban and richer, for Venstre?

In the Netherlands, the country that has a political landscape probably most similar to Denmark, progressive urban cosmopolitan highly educated people vote for D66. Of course, it would be more difficult for D66 if they would be in the government like Radikale Venstre, because now D66 is clearly to the right of the VVD-PvdA government on economic issues. But still there seems to be an electoral "vacuum" on the progressive right in Denmark that has been filled by I. Is Radikale Venstre too left-wing on economic issues? Is Venstre perceived as too centrist? I'd love to hear a reply from Danish people on this.

The Dutch and Danish political landscapes are not particularly similar - taking that as you point of departure would lead you astray.

The average Radikale voter is richer and better educated than an average Venstre voter. Venstre is especially in its core areas in Jutland a genuine peoples party with a social profile as broad as SD and lots of people with low education and average incomes. Being suburban would not make you more likely to vote Venstre than Radikale - being rural or from a small town would, but having a blue collar job would be an even stronger factor.

Liberal Alliance is the most economically right wing party in Denmark and attracts affluent private sector functionaries and libertarian students. It is significantly to the right of Radikale (and Venstre) on economics and far more libertarian on social issues than Venstre.
Hmmm. I think based on policy, VVD and Venstre are quite similar; our SP might be between your SF and the Red-Greens on the left-right scale; the social democrats obviously played a different role in the past in both countries but are still somewhat comparable; Radikale Venstre and D66 are - correct me if I'm wrong - alike; PVV and DF also share some similarities apart from DF's leadership obviously being smarter and less extreme, which makes them at least "toleration" material for coalitions - which is not going to happen anymore in Holland, obviously.

However, conservative voters in Denmark might actually be the type of people that vote VVD in Holland, while Venstre voters in Denmark might be more similar to Dutch CDA voters (except for the fact that these people don't vote for the CDA anymore nowadays). I think the political landscapes do have differences, but I really can't imagine a country with a political landscape as similar to Holland as Denmark.

But I think I've looked too much at policy and not enough at historical voting patterns, which are in Denmark indeed very different from those in Holland. I now understand that, with the (both ideological and electoral) decline of the Conservatives and its move to the center (while accepting the Danish People's Party's policies on immigration, unpopular by a cosmopolitan bourgeois elite), the Liberal Alliance isn't (and hasn't been) as much a threat for Venstre as for the Conservatives. Which makes sense. I now understand the gap that I fills. Thanks.

(And thanks for the maps, Sibboleth!)
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politicus
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« Reply #410 on: February 02, 2015, 03:20:33 pm »


I think based on policy, VVD and Venstre are quite similar; our SP might be between your SF and the Red-Greens on the left-right scale; the social democrats obviously played a different role in the past in both countries but are still somewhat comparable; Radikale Venstre and D66 are - correct me if I'm wrong - alike; PVV and DF also share some similarities apart from DF's leadership obviously being smarter and less extreme, which makes them at least "toleration" material for coalitions - which is not going to happen anymore in Holland, obviously.

However, conservative voters in Denmark might actually be the type of people that vote VVD in Holland, while Venstre voters in Denmark might be more similar to Dutch CDA voters (except for the fact that these people don't vote for the CDA anymore nowadays). I think the political landscapes do have differences, but I really can't imagine a country with a political landscape as similar to Holland as Denmark.

But I think I've looked too much at policy and not enough at historical voting patterns, which are in Denmark indeed very different from those in Holland. I now understand that, with the (both ideological and electoral) decline of the Conservatives and its move to the center (while accepting the Danish People's Party's policies on immigration, unpopular by a cosmopolitan bourgeois elite), the Liberal Alliance isn't (and hasn't been) as much a threat for Venstre as for the Conservatives. Which makes sense. I now understand the gap that I fills. Thanks.

(And thanks for the maps, Sibboleth!)

You can not really say that the Danish Conservatives are in ideological decline (at least not in the way you seem to think) or have moved to the center. They are more or less where they have always been, but they lost the battle of being the mainstream centre-right party in the 90s and after that poor leadership made them unattractive to voters, while Liberal Alliance captured the low tax message. In addition young people from the bourgeois upper midddle class segmens that used to vote Conservative do not care about "God, King and country" (and if they do, they vote DPP). Being the party of culture, relatively green and supporting urban and landscape planning (which used to be consevative differentation points toward the Liberals) are things the Conservatives have either given up on or toned down, but that can hardly be seen as a move towards the center.

DPP is an alliance between National Conservatives and nationalist/xenophobic (former) Social Democrats. It is not akin to PVV apart from both being right wing populist. The old Progress Party was much closer to PVV.

Liberal Alliance are actually quite tough on immigration, but focused on economic usefulnes rather than ethnic and religious background. It is more no poors, elderly and sick, than no Muslims.
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ingemann
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« Reply #411 on: February 02, 2015, 04:04:56 pm »

Good point about the old progress party, it's rather interesting how little of the old progress party voting block which vote on DPP today. North Jutland was a stronghold for them, and DPP does worse than average there. In fact it more seem like their voters have gone to the Conservatives instead.

Of course some of that may be personality, both Kirsten Jacobsen from the Progress Party and Lene Espersen have had a great success there. We may see at next election with Espersen stopping, DPP increase significant in the region.
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Diouf
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« Reply #412 on: February 02, 2015, 05:08:22 pm »

the Liberal Alliance isn't (and hasn't been) as much a threat for Venstre as for the Conservatives. Which makes sense. I now understand the gap that I fills. Thanks.

This is reflected in the table of voter movements from the 2011 election, but perhaps the difference is not as big as expected. The extra voters from Venstre might be (the somewhat surprising) Liberal Alliance vote which can be seen in Western Jutland in the map. In that Venstre-dominated area, there was a lot of anger about the closure of the local hospital, and the new super hospital was placed further eastwards. While this was a regional decision, many expected the Liberal PM to intervene and change the decision. Liberal Alliance, along with a regional party, was quite vocal in opposition to the closure. In the latest voter movement poll, there was actually a swingback from the Liberal Alliance to Venstre, which can partly be because this issue is no longer salient as the decision is now irreversible.

The blue bars are men, the orange are for women. The numbers to the left show % of all voters. The one furthest to the right is new voters.

It should be remembered that the movements are from what the predecessor party the New Alliance achieved in 2007. One of their main selling points was opposition to DPP and their immigration policies. This was toned and watered down by the Liberal Alliance in 2011, and since completely reversed, which explains why some voters went back to the Radikale.

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politicus
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« Reply #413 on: February 03, 2015, 04:51:41 am »

The Dutch and Danish party systems have a lot of apparent similarities, but some of them are deceptive. One of the main differences is that Christian Democracy has been a fairly strong ideology in the Netherlands and totally marginal (+ ”foreign”) in Denmark. Catholicism (even when just a sizeable minority) influences political culture quite a bit – part of it indirectly by affecting the way Protestants act.


Centre-right/right wing

PVV = old Progress Party (although less anarchistic/crazy). Much more economically liberal than DPP and also less authoritarian
SGP = nothing comes even close
VVD = both Venstre and Conservatives (which are almost identical by now)
CDA = no parallel. Its Christian (and partly Catholic) roots seets it apart. The old Anti-Revolutionary Party would have been part of the Conservative coalition, but quite marginal. Most CDA voters would be in Venstre
CU = pretty good fit for our Christian Democrats
D66 = fits Radikale pretty well, but has anti-establishment roots, whereas Radikale is as establishment as you get. Seems to incorporate people to the left of Radikale


Centre-left/left wing:

PvdA = Social Democrats, but (even) more ideologically washed out than their Danish brethren
GL = right wing of SPP (”Green wing”)
SP = Red-Green Alliance + most of the SPP left wing. More traditional party organization than Red-Greens


Odd parties:

PvdD= Fokus (created by former DPP MP ”Animal  Christian” Hansen) – extremely small
50+ = no such party

No Dutch parallel to Liberal Alliance


I made a description of the Danish party system in the election thread on IE.

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DavidB.
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« Reply #414 on: February 03, 2015, 05:42:03 am »
« Edited: February 03, 2015, 05:44:34 am by DavidB. »

The Dutch and Danish party systems have a lot of apparent similarities, but some of them are deceptive. One of the main differences is that Christian Democracy has been a fairly strong ideology in the Netherlands and totally marginal (+ ”foreign”) in Denmark. Catholicism (even when just a sizeable minority) influences political culture quite a bit – part of it indirectly by affecting the way Protestants act.


Centre-right/right wing

PVV = old Progress Party (although less anarchistic/crazy). Much more economically liberal than DPP and also less authoritarian
SGP = nothing comes even close
VVD = both Venstre and Conservatives (which are almost identical by now)
CDA = no parallel. Its Christian (and partly Catholic) roots seets it apart. The old Anti-Revolutionary Party would have been part of the Conservative coalition, but quite marginal. Most CDA voters would be in Venstre
CU = pretty good fit for our Christian Democrats
D66 = fits Radikale pretty well, but has anti-establishment roots, whereas Radikale is as establishment as you get. Seems to incorporate people to the left of Radikale


Centre-left/left wing:

PvdA = Social Democrats, but (even) more ideologically washed out than their Danish brethren
GL = right wing of SPP (”Green wing”)
SP = Red-Green Alliance + most of the SPP left wing. More traditional party organization than Red-Greens


Odd parties:

PvdD= Fokus (created by former DPP MP ”Animal  Christian” Hansen) – extremely small
50+ = no such party

No Dutch parallel to Liberal Alliance


I made a description of the Danish party system in the election thread on IE.


I agree with the larger part of your analysis. However, the PVV is not economically liberal at all anymore. They were in 2006, and probably still a bit in 2010, but now definitely not at all. In that sense, the PVV is at least now definitely comparable to DF. And less authoritarian? Wilders has said a lot of crazy things about Muslims/Moroccans that DF politicians wouldn't say. He would definitely not be welcome in DF's ECR group. Furthermore, Wilders decides everything in the PVV. There are only two party members: Wilders and the "Foundation for the Friends of the PVV" which is run by... Geert Wilders.

D66 has anti-establishment roots but is nowadays the party that is by many considered the ultimate "regent's party" (as opposed to the PVV).
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DavidB.
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« Reply #415 on: February 03, 2015, 05:58:45 am »

the Liberal Alliance isn't (and hasn't been) as much a threat for Venstre as for the Conservatives. Which makes sense. I now understand the gap that I fills. Thanks.

This is reflected in the table of voter movements from the 2011 election, but perhaps the difference is not as big as expected. The extra voters from Venstre might be (the somewhat surprising) Liberal Alliance vote which can be seen in Western Jutland in the map. In that Venstre-dominated area, there was a lot of anger about the closure of the local hospital, and the new super hospital was placed further eastwards. While this was a regional decision, many expected the Liberal PM to intervene and change the decision. Liberal Alliance, along with a regional party, was quite vocal in opposition to the closure. In the latest voter movement poll, there was actually a swingback from the Liberal Alliance to Venstre, which can partly be because this issue is no longer salient as the decision is now irreversible.

The blue bars are men, the orange are for women. The numbers to the left show % of all voters. The one furthest to the right is new voters.

It should be remembered that the movements are from what the predecessor party the New Alliance achieved in 2007. One of their main selling points was opposition to DPP and their immigration policies. This was toned and watered down by the Liberal Alliance in 2011, and since completely reversed, which explains why some voters went back to the Radikale.


Thanks for this, Diouf, it's interesting!
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politicus
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« Reply #416 on: February 03, 2015, 11:27:52 am »


I agree with the larger part of your analysis. However, the PVV is not economically liberal at all anymore. They were in 2006, and probably still a bit in 2010, but now definitely not at all. In that sense, the PVV is at least now definitely comparable to DF. And less authoritarian? Wilders has said a lot of crazy things about Muslims/Moroccans that DF politicians wouldn't say. He would definitely not be welcome in DF's ECR group. Furthermore, Wilders decides everything in the PVV. There are only two party members: Wilders and the "Foundation for the Friends of the PVV" which is run by... Geert Wilders.

D66 has anti-establishment roots but is nowadays the party that is by many considered the ultimate "regent's party" (as opposed to the PVV).

Must admit I do no know what sort of economic policies Wildes advocate these days, but DPP has incorporated a lot of SDs along the way and their views on economics and welfare are increasingly old school Social Democratic. I would have thought Wilders was still substantially to  the right of that.
DPP is less radical and more "sane" than Wilders. By authoritarian I did no refer to their internal structure or level of xenophobia, but the opposite of libertarian. I thought Wilders still had a libertarian streak on many issues. He seems anti-conservative, whereas DPP is (among other things) a genuinely conservative party.

D66 may very well have become similar to Radikale.
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politicus
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« Reply #417 on: March 01, 2015, 12:06:49 am »

After advice from the Criminal Law Council the Danish government has decided not to abolish the blasphemy paragraph in the criminal code. This is a U-turn for especially the Social Liberals, who have been eager to get rid of what they saw as a dated special status for religion.

No one has been convicted for blasphemy since 1933, while the last trial was in 1971 and legal scholars generally consider the paragraph invalid because it conflicts with free speech protection, but the CLC says it protects against something like burning or urinating on holy scripture such as the Bible and Koran.

The council stated that legalizing blasphemy could be twisted by foreign media and religious groups and be (mis)interpreted as a general anti-religious act or an act against specific religions, which might provoke a violent reaction.

This is of course controversial as it is basically giving in to the threat of Islamic terrorism or a new cartoon-crisis.
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politicus
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« Reply #418 on: March 01, 2015, 01:25:58 am »

Protests from the Red-Greens, DPP and Justitia (libertarian/conservative think tank). This incl. critique of the CLC even addressing non-judicial matters.

Also, two years ago DPP suggested banning the burning of Dannebrog (Danish national flag) and the Ministry of Justice said that would violate the protection of free speech, which makes the assertion of legal relevance of the blasphemy ban a bit strange.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #419 on: March 02, 2015, 11:07:07 am »

Battle for party leadership in KD in Sweden. Seems to be between Ebba Busch and Jacob Forssmed.

Busch is the charismatic leader of KD in Uppsala. She got more personal votes than any other candidate for the Uppsala local elections last year and has been a rising star for some time.

She is generally perceived as being on the right-wing of the party, emphasizing more secular conservatism than traditional religious ideas. She talks a lot about curbing the powers of the state. She seems smart and young, is a woman (pretty good looking too) and, IMO, has the right type of ideology to get some votes back to a party in deed crisis. The main drawbacks are I guess the same things, youth, might be seen as too radical a shift, etc. Also, she is not in parliament which is often seen as a drawback. Then again, it seemed to work fine for S with Löfven. She is also giving birth soon but she basically told the media to get over themselves with regards to that.

Forssmed I know little about, but he's apparently more to the left and a compassionate conservative. He also seems more linked to the party establishment and the current line. Not well known outside of the party.

So far, Busch has a clear lead in district nominations but most of the big districts are yet to declare.
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« Reply #420 on: March 02, 2015, 04:36:17 pm »

Busch is the charismatic leader of KD in Uppsala. 

Really... ?I will have to disagree with you here Gustaf.  If Busch seemed any more cold she'd be the ice queen from Narnia. Busch might be charismatic for KD, but really, that's not saying much.
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politicus
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« Reply #421 on: March 02, 2015, 09:55:30 pm »

Busch is the charismatic leader of KD in Uppsala.  

Really... ?I will have to disagree with you here Gustaf.  If Busch seemed any more cold she'd be the ice queen from Narnia. Busch might be charismatic for KD, but really, that's not saying much.

Cmon Johan, you are the one that wanted a separate Sweden thread. No need to answer him here.
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politicus
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« Reply #422 on: March 03, 2015, 12:05:42 am »

MMR poll for Iceland has PP up nearly 4% from the last poll. The Pirates remain on their record level from mid-January and are close to the rest of the non-IP parties.

IP 25,5 (-1,8)
Bright Future 15,0 (-1,9)
SDA 14,5 (-1,4)
PP 13,1 (+3,7)
Left Greens 12,9 (+1,0)
Pirates 12,8 (-)

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Gustaf
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« Reply #423 on: March 03, 2015, 05:18:19 am »

Busch is the charismatic leader of KD in Uppsala.  

Really... ?I will have to disagree with you here Gustaf.  If Busch seemed any more cold she'd be the ice queen from Narnia. Busch might be charismatic for KD, but really, that's not saying much.

Cmon Johan, you are the one that wanted a separate Sweden thread. No need to answer him here.

Is there still a separate Sweden thread?

And, yeah, by Swedish standards I think she is. I've seen her speak live and was relatively impressed.
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politicus
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« Reply #424 on: March 03, 2015, 05:54:28 am »
« Edited: March 03, 2015, 06:30:54 am by Charlotte Hebdo »

Forum for Kritiske Muslimer (Forum for Critical Muslims) led by Finnish-Syrian Sherin Khankan has announced they will start a mosque in Copenhagen, where female imams will deliver the sermon and the prayer for both women and men. Their project is called Femimam - Female Imams. They got four academically (Islamic theology) trained women ready for the positions.

http://www.information.dk/526088

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_as_imams

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