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  The Great Nordic Thread
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Poll
Question: Will Iceland and Norway ever join the EU?
#1Iceland, but not Norway  
#2Norway, but not Iceland  
#3Both  
#4None of them  
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Total Voters: 153

Author Topic: The Great Nordic Thread  (Read 154936 times)
Swedish Austerity Cheese
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« Reply #425 on: March 03, 2015, 06:41:37 am »

Cmon Johan, you are the one that wanted a separate Sweden thread. No need to answer him here.

Yes, but since Gustaf posted it here I assumed he'd be more likely to see my reply here. Wink


And, yeah, by Swedish standards I think she is. I've seen her speak live and was relatively impressed.

Well we'll have to disagree then I guess.

I'll admit that I'm basing my impression of her mostly from the documentary series Kommunpampar, were I really thought she came across as a stiff and cold careerist. But I've seen here preform decently in debates about affermative action since then, but not enough that I'd qualify her as charismatic.   
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Gustaf
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« Reply #426 on: March 03, 2015, 08:09:52 am »

Cmon Johan, you are the one that wanted a separate Sweden thread. No need to answer him here.

Yes, but since Gustaf posted it here I assumed he'd be more likely to see my reply here. Wink


And, yeah, by Swedish standards I think she is. I've seen her speak live and was relatively impressed.

Well we'll have to disagree then I guess.

I'll admit that I'm basing my impression of her mostly from the documentary series Kommunpampar, were I really thought she came across as a stiff and cold careerist. But I've seen here preform decently in debates about affermative action since then, but not enough that I'd qualify her as charismatic.   

Oh, I haven't seen that. I'm sure she is a careerist. But that can be spun away. Tongue

Also, Sweden isn't exactly bathing in charisma when it comes to politics, so...
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politicus
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« Reply #427 on: March 04, 2015, 03:52:55 am »
« Edited: March 04, 2015, 04:05:06 am by Charlotte Hebdo »

A cross-party motion signed by representatives of all six parties in the Althing now propose compensation to the victims of abuse on a Catholic school using state funds. The measure is justified, by the fact that the school was under state supervision, which failed miserably for decades.

The Left Greens argue the state should also be able to claim back the money from the Catholic Church.

Between 1959 and 1984 a number of students at Landakotsskóli in Reykjavík were subjected to rape, other sexual abuse, beatings and humiliation by the school management. But the Catholic Church claims they only have an obligation to compensate the victim in one case. Now a further 29 former pupils get compensation.

Although both victims and witnesses on several occasions emerged the Catholic Church chose not to investigate and made sure that all testimonies were destroyed or disappeared.

At the center of the assaults on Landakotsskóli stood a couple - Pastor Ágúst Georg who worked as principal and the teacher Margret Müller. Both worked at the school for over 40 years. Together and separately exposing the students to constant sexual abuse with sadistic overtones. Students were also beaten and humiliated systematically.

In the wake of a so-called "Truth Commission" about sexual abuse within the State Church the Catholic Church decided to (= was forced to) carry out a similar investigation. The report showed that testimony of abuse were waved away by church leaders and notifiers slandered. Several bishops chose not to investigate the allegations at all. The report testified about abuse of 30 former pupils of at Landakotsskóli. Of these, eight had been victims of sexual abuse.

After the church report was published in November 2012 Bishop Pétur Burcher wrote that the Catholic Church should thereafter follow Icelandic law and report any suspected abuse to the police, but less than a year later he stated in a letter to his priests that they could not report suspected sex crimes within the church. Instead, suspicions should still only to be handled within the church - a procedure which blatantly violates Icelandic law.

Pétur Burcher recently announced that he is resigning as bishop claiming he suffers from pneumonia and needs to be staying at southern latitudes where the climate is warmer than in Iceland...

(you can not make this stuff up..)
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politicus
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« Reply #428 on: March 05, 2015, 04:22:45 am »
« Edited: March 05, 2015, 04:33:29 am by Charlotte Hebdo »

A late February poll from Sentio in Dagens Næringsliv (business daily) shows the Norwegian Progress Party at it's nadir since 1995, while Labour is above 43% and the combined left wing above 52%, with the Greens just below the threshold. The Progress Party has been polling miserably for a long time after having to compromise on a wide range of issues. Norway seems to be a good case for strangling right wing populists by giving them responsibility.

Progress Party 9,2 (16,3 in the 2013 election)
Conservatives 21,4

Christian People's Party 5,4
Liberals 4,6
Centre Party 5,8

Labour 43,4
Socialist Left 4,3
------------
Greens 3,6
Red 1,0

source
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« Reply #429 on: March 05, 2015, 05:55:22 am »

A late February poll from Sentio in Dagens Næringsliv (business daily) shows the Norwegian Progress Party at it's nadir since 1995, while Labour is above 43% and the combined left wing above 52%, with the Greens just below the threshold. The Progress Party has been polling miserably for a long time after having to compromise on a wide range of issues. Norway seems to be a good case for strangling right wing populists by giving them responsibility.

Progress Party 9,2 (16,3 in the 2013 election)
Conservatives 21,4

Christian People's Party 5,4
Liberals 4,6
Centre Party 5,8

Labour 43,4
Socialist Left 4,3
------------
Greens 3,6
Red 1,0

source

What has caused this massive rebound for DNA? Is the government already unpopular?
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politicus
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« Reply #430 on: March 05, 2015, 06:20:37 am »
« Edited: March 05, 2015, 07:47:26 am by Charlotte Hebdo »

A late February poll from Sentio in Dagens Næringsliv (business daily) shows the Norwegian Progress Party at it's nadir since 1995, while Labour is above 43% and the combined left wing above 52%, with the Greens just below the threshold. The Progress Party has been polling miserably for a long time after having to compromise on a wide range of issues. Norway seems to be a good case for strangling right wing populists by giving them responsibility.

Progress Party 9,2 (16,3 in the 2013 election)
Conservatives 21,4

Christian People's Party 5,4
Liberals 4,6
Centre Party 5,8

Labour 43,4
Socialist Left 4,3
------------
Greens 3,6
Red 1,0

source

What has caused this massive rebound for DNA? Is the government already unpopular?

Their first budget has been criticized by basically everybody - incl. economists and the two centrist centre-right parties. Instead of making the public sector more efficient - as promised during the campaign - it focused on tax cuts to the most wealthy and cut benefits to the disabled and unemployed etc. Also some grants to rural areas.

Especially young people, women and voters from the periphery have switched from PP and Conservatives to Labour.
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« Reply #431 on: March 05, 2015, 06:22:06 am »

Well partly because Norway is suffering because of the oil price cratering. I notice that the state oil company is starting to shed jobs and mothball planned projects, which is a disappointment to Norway's coffers especially as Progress wanted to splurge the oil fund on infrastructure. At the moment, the government seems to be leaning on stimulus to get past the dark spot, which Jensen does not want at all.

The two small liberal parties - Venstre and the Christian Democrats - are causing increasing ruffles amongst the Progress ranks with their pro-refugee stance. When they agreed to support the government the Immigration minister promised to soften its attitude towards child asylum seekers, which turned out to be a barefaced lie, as the minister simply instructed the police to carry on as they were. Increasingly angry words are being exchanged over that issue, despite a public apology by the minister in question.

Other problems exist. The Progress Party loathes the wealth tax for example, which appears to still exist (I'm unsure about this though). There was also amusingly farcical scenes surrounding a plastic shopping bag tax.

And of course general bleeding of centrist voters back to Labour over a regressive and unpopular budget.
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politicus
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« Reply #432 on: March 05, 2015, 06:39:37 am »
« Edited: March 05, 2015, 06:52:12 am by Charlotte Hebdo »

Well partly because Norway is suffering because of the oil price cratering. I notice that the state oil company is starting to shed jobs and mothball planned projects, which is a disappointment to Norway's coffers especially as Progress wanted to splurge the oil fund on infrastructure. At the moment, the government seems to be leaning on stimulus to get past the dark spot, which Jensen does not want at all.

The two small liberal parties - Venstre and the Christian Democrats - are causing increasing ruffles amongst the Progress ranks with their pro-refugee stance. When they agreed to support the government the Immigration minister promised to soften its attitude towards child asylum seekers, which turned out to be a barefaced lie, as the minister simply instructed the police to carry on as they were. Increasingly angry words are being exchanged over that issue, despite a public apology by the minister in question.

Other problems exist. The Progress Party loathes the wealth tax for example, which appears to still exist (I'm unsure about this though). There was also amusingly farcical scenes surrounding a plastic shopping bag tax.

And of course general bleeding of centrist voters back to Labour over a regressive and unpopular budget.

Well, let's wait and see what Lurker says, but I get the impression from the Norwegian press that the budget is the no. 1 reason with the quarrels about immigration being significantly less important.

Norway is not generally that vulnerable to oil prices, it has enormous reserves and does have other sources of income. The petro-state narrative is fun to throw around, but is often exaggerated a bit.

Also, the Christian Peoples Party isn't liberal.
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« Reply #433 on: March 05, 2015, 06:56:04 am »

In all fairness, I get most of my news from English language sources

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-02/oil-shock-aggravates-political-fight-hampering-norway-s-premier

It seems that the stress of the coalition is starting to get to party bases. I think the immigration drama isn't a bread and butter issue, but when governments start to openly bicker about any issue that starts to bleed into how voters in general see the government.

And yes I boobed on the Christian Democrats. I meant to use liberal to describe Venstre and centrist to describe both of them, but my brain decided to be dumb.
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« Reply #434 on: March 05, 2015, 09:56:33 am »
« Edited: March 05, 2015, 10:12:47 am by BundouYMB »

You want why the Government is so unpopular in Norway? Let me give you one example: the plastic bag tax.

As the name suggests this was a tax on using plastic bags (at the grocery store, for example) that was introduced in the last budget. The Liberal Party, backed up by the Christian Democrats, insisted the tax was introduced. Trine Skei Grande insisted the Liberal Party would not vote for the budget if it did not include this tax.

The Progress Party was absolutely opposed. What followed was as ugly a knock-down drag-out fight as ever took place between any Government (or Government supporting parties.) Party leaders storming out in the middle of meetings, trash talking each other in public, ect. So what happened?

Respons released a poll (in retrospect an obvious fluke) which had the Liberals and Christian Democrats both above 7% and FrP dropping. This gave them the last minute momentum to force it into the budget (and made for yet another bitter pill for FrP to swallow.) Trine Skei Grande (Liberal leader) and Knut Arild Hareide (Christian Democratic leader) make the rounds on the news celebrating how they're keeping the government moderate, enviromentally friendly, ect.

So, the tax was introduced. The budget was passed. Finally! Now the Government can start recovering, right? No more infighting?

Then a funny thing happened. A poll was released. Then another poll. Then another. They all show the same thing! The plastic bag tax was horribly unpopular. So what happens next? The Liberals and Christian Democrats insisted that, oh, that plastic bag tax they had been championing a few days ago? Of course they didn't support it. And, I mean, who really remembers who supported what? That was like a whole week ago!

So was the tax repealed? Of course not! Because then the Conservatives stepped in to say that if the Government makes a decision then all the parties should support it (but of course they, in a personal capacity, were bitterly opposed to the tax and fought it every step of the way.)

So now you have a situation where they all vote for an unpopular tax, none of them will defend it, and in fact they're all claiming they opposed it in negotiations! And to top it off they don't even have the guts to repeal it.

This is a pattern of behavior. Dirty laundry is aired in ugly public fights about all sorts of things. Eventually the Government reaches "compromises" no one likes and no one will defend.

And that's how you lose twenty points in the polls in one year. Eat your heart out, Tony Abbott!
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« Reply #435 on: March 05, 2015, 10:26:08 am »

Has the Progress Party been able to push for any significant changes in the laws related to immigration?
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« Reply #436 on: March 07, 2015, 08:06:56 am »

Hahaha, RIP the rightwing party.
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« Reply #437 on: March 07, 2015, 10:53:34 am »

The Pirates keep advancing in Iceland and are the third largest party in a new Capacent poll with 15,2% - their highest level ever:

IP 26,1
PP 11,0

SDA 17,1
Pirates 15,2
Bright Future 13,3
Left Greens 11,2
Others  6,0

37,1% say they support the government - exactly ther same number as IP + PP combined.
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« Reply #438 on: March 07, 2015, 11:25:59 am »
« Edited: March 07, 2015, 11:40:24 am by Charlotte Hebdo »

Internal power struggle under way in Icelands small Muslim community after Saudi-Arabia has promised one million dollars to the commencing mosque building - which would cover almost half the costs.

Deputy Chairman for Félag múslima á Íslandi Salmann Tamimi calls Saudi-Arabia a fascist state and refuse to accept any Saudi donation, whereas Chairman Ibrahim Sverrir Agnarsson seems inclined to accept the donation.

The allocation of a plot for a mosque in Sogamýri became a bone of contention in the last municipal election when PP in Reykjavik launched an anti-mosque campaign. The opposition is likely to resurface if it is build for Saudi money.

The Saudi offer is a bit of a surprise since Saudi-Arabia hitherto has supported the rival Menningarsetur múslima á Íslandi, which were expelled from Félag múslima á Íslandi a couple of years ago for extremism and fanaticism.



vs.

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« Reply #439 on: March 07, 2015, 02:00:12 pm »

The Saudi offer is a bit of a surprise since Saudi-Arabia hitherto has supported the rival Menningarsetur múslima á Íslandi, which were expelled from Félag múslima á Íslandi a couple of years ago for extremism and fanaticism.

Why is it a surprise?  A classic way of controlling people is to get them dependent upon your money and then threaten to cut it off unless you do what they want.
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politicus
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« Reply #440 on: March 07, 2015, 03:27:14 pm »
« Edited: March 07, 2015, 03:30:32 pm by Charlotte Hebdo »

The Saudi offer is a bit of a surprise since Saudi-Arabia hitherto has supported the rival Menningarsetur múslima á Íslandi, which were expelled from Félag múslima á Íslandi a couple of years ago for extremism and fanaticism.

Why is it a surprise?  A classic way of controlling people is to get them dependent upon your money and then threaten to cut it off unless you do what they want.

The Icelandic press thinks it is a surprise, probably because they don't have your devious Southern mind.

I would add that Saudi-Arabia trying to buy influence in something as marginal as Iceland is in itself surprising.
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« Reply #441 on: March 07, 2015, 05:23:15 pm »

The Saudi offer is a bit of a surprise since Saudi-Arabia hitherto has supported the rival Menningarsetur múslima á Íslandi, which were expelled from Félag múslima á Íslandi a couple of years ago for extremism and fanaticism.

Why is it a surprise?  A classic way of controlling people is to get them dependent upon your money and then threaten to cut it off unless you do what they want.

The Icelandic press thinks it is a surprise, probably because they don't have your devious Southern mind.

I would add that Saudi-Arabia trying to buy influence in something as marginal as Iceland is in itself surprising.

They don't care about Iceland, but about Iceland's Muslims.  Wahhabism seeks to convert all heretic Muslims to the true faith.
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« Reply #442 on: March 08, 2015, 03:06:10 am »

The Saudi offer is a bit of a surprise since Saudi-Arabia hitherto has supported the rival Menningarsetur múslima á Íslandi, which were expelled from Félag múslima á Íslandi a couple of years ago for extremism and fanaticism.

Why is it a surprise?  A classic way of controlling people is to get them dependent upon your money and then threaten to cut it off unless you do what they want.

The Icelandic press thinks it is a surprise, probably because they don't have your devious Southern mind.

I would add that Saudi-Arabia trying to buy influence in something as marginal as Iceland is in itself surprising.

They don't care about Iceland, but about Iceland's Muslims.  Wahhabism seeks to convert all heretic Muslims to the true faith.

All five of the icelandic muslims? :0
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« Reply #443 on: March 08, 2015, 03:24:08 am »

The Saudi offer is a bit of a surprise since Saudi-Arabia hitherto has supported the rival Menningarsetur múslima á Íslandi, which were expelled from Félag múslima á Íslandi a couple of years ago for extremism and fanaticism.

Why is it a surprise?  A classic way of controlling people is to get them dependent upon your money and then threaten to cut it off unless you do what they want.

The Icelandic press thinks it is a surprise, probably because they don't have your devious Southern mind.

I would add that Saudi-Arabia trying to buy influence in something as marginal as Iceland is in itself surprising.

They don't care about Iceland, but about Iceland's Muslims.  Wahhabism seeks to convert all heretic Muslims to the true faith.

All five of the icelandic muslims? :0

Is this sarcasm, or an actual claim Iceland has only five muslims?  It's hard to tell.
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politicus
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« Reply #444 on: March 08, 2015, 03:25:43 am »

The Saudi offer is a bit of a surprise since Saudi-Arabia hitherto has supported the rival Menningarsetur múslima á Íslandi, which were expelled from Félag múslima á Íslandi a couple of years ago for extremism and fanaticism.

Why is it a surprise?  A classic way of controlling people is to get them dependent upon your money and then threaten to cut it off unless you do what they want.

The Icelandic press thinks it is a surprise, probably because they don't have your devious Southern mind.

I would add that Saudi-Arabia trying to buy influence in something as marginal as Iceland is in itself surprising.

They don't care about Iceland, but about Iceland's Muslims.  Wahhabism seeks to convert all heretic Muslims to the true faith.

All five of the icelandic muslims? :0

That would be true around 1970. There are 800 organized Muslims now: Arabs, Albanians, Africans and Icelandic converts. There might be around a 100 more who have decided to stay out of the two congregations.
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politicus
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« Reply #445 on: March 08, 2015, 03:27:49 am »

Is this sarcasm, or an actual claim Iceland has only five muslims?  It's hard to tell.

Not really Wink I just decided to give a serious answer anyway.
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« Reply #446 on: March 08, 2015, 03:32:48 am »

Is this sarcasm, or an actual claim Iceland has only five muslims?  It's hard to tell.

Not really Wink I just decided to give a serious answer anyway.

Okay then.  Considering how Islam is the world's fastest growing religion, there could very well be even more than 1,800 muslims there, though I don't know of any statistics.
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politicus
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« Reply #447 on: March 08, 2015, 04:42:31 am »

Has the Progress Party been able to push for any significant changes in the laws related to immigration?

Not much it seems. The government needs to compromise with the Liberals and CPP.

- No getting a spouse to Norway if you are below 24 and a higher income requirement.

- Chosing UN quota refugees based on "integration ability" (dunno if that includes the ability to weed out Muslims or just socio-economic stuff)

- The rules for letting refugees who are converts to Christianity or gay stay in Norway has been harmonized to EU/UNHCR standards (=being tightened)

- Easier expulsion of criminal asylum seekers

- More asylum seekers placed in closed facilities

Hardliners in FrP have been very critical of the immigration policy and said the government follows the Liberals line. Among them are former chairman Carl I. Hagen.
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politicus
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« Reply #448 on: March 15, 2015, 06:09:29 pm »

The Pirate Party is the largest opposition party at 21,9 in a new Visir poll in Fréttablaðið, which means that Pirate Queen Birgitta Jonsdottir is starting to look like a serious contender to become the next PM of Iceland given that the centre-left retains its solid lead over the government. Their seat distribution is 3 in Reykjavik North, 3 in Reykjavik South, 3 in the SW, 3 in Southern Iceland and 1 in each of the two Northern constituencies (NE and NW). They have gained strongly in provincial Southern Iceland and if they get a similar breakthrough in the rural north, they are starting to look like a serious threat to the SDA as leaders of the opposition. It is especially Bright Future supporters that are switching to the Pirates and BF may be facing a Bleak Future.

IP 28,0 (19)
Pirates 21,9 (14) (up from 5,1 and 3 in the 2013 election)
SDA 16,1 (11)
Left Greens 10,4 (7)
PP 10,1 (6)
Bright Future 9,2  (6)

Others 4,3 (0)

The poll was conducted before the government decided to ask the EU-Commission remove Iceland from the list of candidate countries (a soft and wussy way to withdraw their membership application)
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« Reply #449 on: March 16, 2015, 07:50:27 am »
« Edited: March 16, 2015, 08:49:45 am by Charlotte Hebdo »

Yesterday 8.000 demonstrated at Austurvollur square in central Reykjavik against the governments decision to "cancel" the EU application without asking the Althing (which means that it isn't legally cancelled).

Massive critique from not only the opposition, but also IP MPs and former leaders of IP and PP for sidelining the Althing, which approved the original Icelandic membership application six years ago.

Also calls for a vote of no confidence to Minister of Foreign Affairs Gunnar Bragi Sveinsson. If Sveinsson is voted out of office with the help of IP rebels it is difficult to see how the government can survive, so potentially serious.

The reason why the government did not ask the Althing is that a substantial number of IP parliamentarians are either Europhiles or support a referendum (which the government promised during the 2013 campaign) on principle, which means it is far from certain they would have won it.

Will be interesting to see if Benedikt Jóhannesson's small Europhile IP breakaway Viðreisn (Awakening) will benefit from this.

IP chairman Bjarni Benediktsson is running a serious risk of splitting his party by approving this move. So this is a testament to just how much he is financially and politically dependent on the Big Fishing families (one of the leading members of that group owns Iceland's dominant conservative daily Morgunbladid).

Polls have shown a stable 50% no/35% yes to EU for more than a year now, so on paper it would not seem to be risky to finish the negotiations and held a referendum, but Big Fishing (IP base) and the powerful cooperative movement (PP base) do not want to take any chances. There is a consistent majority behind the demand for a referendum on the matter. So the basic fact is still that Icelanders don't want to join the EU, but they do want to vote about it.
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