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Author Topic: In Canada, you can get arrested if your daughter draws a gun in class  (Read 1169 times)
dead0man
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« on: March 24, 2012, 04:55:45 am »
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and by draw, I mean with crayons and such.  link
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Police arrested a Kitchener, Ont., father outside his daughter's school because the four-year-old drew a picture of him holding a gun.

Jessie Sansone told the Record newspaper that he was in shock when he was arrested Wednesday and taken to a police station for questioning over the drawing. He was also strip-searched.

"This is completely insane. My daughter drew a gun on a piece of paper at school," he said.

Officials told the newspaper the move was necessary to ensure there were no guns accessible by children in the family's home. They also said comments by Sansone's daughter, Neaveh, that the man holding the gun in the picture was her dad and "he uses it to shoot bad guys and monsters," was concerning.

Police also searched Sansone's home while he was in custody. His wife and three children were taken to the police station, and the children were interviewed by Family and Children's Services.

Sansone's wife, Stephanie Squires, told the newspaper no one told them why her husband had been arrested.

"He had absolutely no idea what this was even about. I just kept telling them, 'You're making a mistake.'"
Several hours later, Sansone was released without charges.
and have your family hassled and your home searched (presumably without a warrant).
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“To oppose something is to maintain it.
They say here "all roads lead to Mishnory." To be sure, if you turn your back on Mishnory and walk away from it, you are still on the Mishnory road. To oppose vulgarity is inevitably to be vulgar. You must go somewhere else; you must have another goal; then you walk in a different road.”
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Holmes
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« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2012, 07:16:42 am »
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We should send her to one of Harper's new super prisons.
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Lewis Trondheim
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« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2012, 07:33:28 am »
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If the literal truth, that's indeed pretty insane.
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« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2012, 12:01:09 pm »
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Canada needs a Second Amendment.
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MaxQue
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« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2012, 01:08:42 pm »
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No, no and no.

Second Amendment is one of the worst US laws. It never proved than it served a purpose, except causing violence.
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Vosem
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« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2012, 04:14:20 pm »
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No, no and no.

Second Amendment is one of the worst US laws. It never proved than it served a purpose, except causing violence.

The Second Amendment means that a US citizen can use their gun to defend themselves instead of being helpless in the face of crime. It's the difference between the women who was raped, killed, and thrown in a ditch, and the woman calmly explaining to the police how she fended off someone trying to assault her.

With time, I hope, similar laws will be spread around the First World.
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MaxQue
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« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2012, 05:28:06 pm »
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No, no and no.

Second Amendment is one of the worst US laws. It never proved than it served a purpose, except causing violence.

The Second Amendment means that a US citizen can use their gun to defend themselves instead of being helpless in the face of crime. It's the difference between the women who was raped, killed, and thrown in a ditch, and the woman calmly explaining to the police how she fended off someone trying to assault her.

With time, I hope, similar laws will be spread around the First World.

The Second Amendment means than a white guy in Florida can shot a black guy "to defend himself".
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politicus
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« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2012, 06:04:20 pm »
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No, no and no.

Second Amendment is one of the worst US laws. It never proved than it served a purpose, except causing violence.

The Second Amendment means that a US citizen can use their gun to defend themselves instead of being helpless in the face of crime. It's the difference between the women who was raped, killed, and thrown in a ditch, and the woman calmly explaining to the police how she fended off someone trying to assault her.

With time, I hope, similar laws will be spread around the First World.
The trouble is that the victims gun is often used against her/him. Criminals will always be better at using firearms than most regular folks.
If you are attacked and doesn't have any combat experience most people either panic or loose their nerve.
Generally countries with strict gun laws also have lower levels of violent crimes. Fewer guns=less violence.
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ingemann
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« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2012, 06:05:49 pm »
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Seeing that USA has a higher murder rate than Canada and all EU countries, a higher rape rate than Canada and all EU countries except Sweden, you need to be either dishonest or ignorant to think gun ownership has a real positive effect on either.

In fact if Canada had a murder rate as high as USA it would mean that 1000 extra Canadians would be murdered every year (or one 9/11 every third year), while if USA had as low murder rate as Canada 10 000 fewer Americans would be murdered every year.
So the conclusion can only be that Canada need a Second Amendment as much it need a 9/11 every third year.
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dead0man
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« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2012, 10:50:36 pm »
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Is this the first gun debate on the internet for you people?
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“To oppose something is to maintain it.
They say here "all roads lead to Mishnory." To be sure, if you turn your back on Mishnory and walk away from it, you are still on the Mishnory road. To oppose vulgarity is inevitably to be vulgar. You must go somewhere else; you must have another goal; then you walk in a different road.”
― Ursula K. Le Guin, The Left Hand of Darkness
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« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2012, 11:34:06 pm »
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No, no and no.

Second Amendment is one of the worst US laws. It never proved than it served a purpose, except causing violence.

The Second Amendment means that a US citizen can use their gun to defend themselves instead of being helpless in the face of crime. It's the difference between the women who was raped, killed, and thrown in a ditch, and the woman calmly explaining to the police how she fended off someone trying to assault her.

With time, I hope, similar laws will be spread around the First World.

The Second Amendment means than a white guy in Florida can shot a black guy "to defend himself".
Not at all.  The second amendment grants the "right to bear arms", not the right to murder.  I imagine that insane Florida law will be struck down by the courts.
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« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2012, 01:03:09 am »
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I don't think I'd be able to survive in most countries with my views :/
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politicus
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« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2012, 04:01:00 pm »
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Is this the first gun debate on the internet for you people?
Meaning everyone knows, what everybody else are going to say so it is pointless to argue about it? Well, maybe...
I kinda like firearms myself (target practice, hunting etc.) and I would probably own a sizable gun collection if I were American. But I still think that the American idea that they make ordinary people safer is simply plain wrong, there is just too much evidence to the contrary.
There are a couple of debates (taxation of the wealthy, guns, death penalty and the murder rate etc.) where many Americans simply ignore the evidence from the rest of the world.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2012, 04:05:33 pm by politicus »Logged

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« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2012, 09:07:12 pm »
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I don't think I'd be able to survive in most countries with my views :/

And yet you seem to think conservatism isn't an extremist ideology.
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dead0man
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« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2012, 09:56:30 pm »
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Is this the first gun debate on the internet for you people?
Meaning everyone knows, what everybody else are going to say so it is pointless to argue about it? Well, maybe...
Sort of....but more specifically, the argument from the gun control crowd that Europe is proof that gun control makes a society safer...it doesn't.  From here
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A second misconception about the relationship between firearms and violence attributes Europe’s generally low homicide rates to stringent gun control. That attribution cannot be accurate for murder in Europe was at an all- time low before the gun controls were introduced. For instance, the only English gun control during the 19th and early 20th Centuries was that police were to patrol without guns. During this period gun control prevailed far less in England or Europe than in certain American states which nevertheless had – and continue to have – murder rates that were and are very high comparatively.
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I kinda like firearms myself (target practice, hunting etc.) and I would probably own a sizable gun collection if I were American. But I still think that the American idea that they make ordinary people safer is simply plain wrong, there is just too much evidence to the contrary.
There are a couple of debates (taxation of the wealthy, guns, death penalty and the murder rate etc.) where many Americans simply ignore the evidence from the rest of the world.
Maybe, but it's not like the gun control crowd doesn't do the exact same thing.  It's naive at best and disingenuous at worst to think that if the US suddenly had European style gun laws that we'd automatically be a safer place.
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“To oppose something is to maintain it.
They say here "all roads lead to Mishnory." To be sure, if you turn your back on Mishnory and walk away from it, you are still on the Mishnory road. To oppose vulgarity is inevitably to be vulgar. You must go somewhere else; you must have another goal; then you walk in a different road.”
― Ursula K. Le Guin, The Left Hand of Darkness
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Rockingham
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« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2012, 06:32:51 am »
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But I still think that the American idea that they make ordinary people safer is simply plain wrong, there is just too much evidence to the contrary.
Is there? In my own country gun control was imposed over a decade ago... the statistical analysis since then have largely concluded that the ban had a statistically insignificant effect on the crime rate, with a minority(largely organized by pro-gun organizations) asserting a statistically significant increase in crime. Notably their haven't been any studies, even those organized by gun control advocates, that asserted a statistically significant decrease in crime... I emphasize, those studies with a bias in favour of finding that gun control reduced crime weren't able to justify that assertion. Which is remarkable considering how easy it normally is to find some statistical evidence, no matter how shallow, that "proves" your point.
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SmugDealer
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« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2012, 09:03:57 am »
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The arrest was ill-advised, though he wasn't actually sentenced to jail time. It's not nearly as shocking as the few million people actually jailed in the U.S. for non-violent crimes.
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politicus
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« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2012, 11:02:27 am »
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I think a general gun law debate should take place in a separate thread. But I am very sceptical as to whether it will be productive/enlightning in any way.
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politicus
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« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2012, 11:11:23 am »
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But I still think that the American idea that they make ordinary people safer is simply plain wrong, there is just too much evidence to the contrary.
Is there? In my own country gun control was imposed over a decade ago... the statistical analysis since then have largely concluded that the ban had a statistically insignificant effect on the crime rate, with a minority(largely organized by pro-gun organizations) asserting a statistically significant increase in crime. Notably their haven't been any studies, even those organized by gun control advocates, that asserted a statistically significant decrease in crime... I emphasize, those studies with a bias in favour of finding that gun control reduced crime weren't able to justify that assertion. Which is remarkable considering how easy it normally is to find some statistical evidence, no matter how shallow, that "proves" your point.

The overall crime rate is not that intersting. Do those surveys deal with severe violent crime? I would be interested in some references.
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bullmoose88
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« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2012, 08:08:41 pm »
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Paper guns kill Canadians.
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MaxQue
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« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2012, 10:30:03 am »
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A note, Canadian government has no control on police in Ontario, so, I would Ontarians, not Canadians.
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