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Author Topic: Congratulations, our on-site Romney supporters  (Read 6001 times)
MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
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« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2012, 04:54:52 PM »

No, no, guys, you're doing it wrong!


Senator North Carolina Yankee.

Can you Be on mitt Team?

Ah, that old Polish sense of humor. Grin That was that guy from Iowa, what was his name again? I can't remember now.

How could you forget John Engle (John Engle Party)?
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2012, 05:00:48 PM »

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And what have you won?

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I suspect the Yankees said the same back in 1865. Wasn't true then, wasn't true now. There will always be folks willing to stand in defense of liberty and fight for what the country stood for.

Yes, you have 'won' but I suspect you won't like what you've 'won'.

Virginia and Florida are northern states, essentially. North Carolina is basically there as well, thoguh the GOP still likes to pretend it isn't sometimes. The Republican candidate for Governor is a big city mayor who was born in Ohio. South Carolina and Georgia will be like that fairly soon as well. Becoming completely dependent on the "old" South is a loser strategy because soon it will be just Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas, and Louisiana.
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All Along The Watchtower
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« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2012, 05:16:45 PM »

I love how Ben Kenobi thinks that preventing gays from marrying and making abortion and unions and other "Northern crap" illegal=defending "liberty."
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Wisconsin+17
Ben Kenobi
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« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2012, 05:24:06 PM »

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Again, I ask you, what have you won?

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First of all, 50 percent of people are prolife. Having two pro abortion candidates divides 25 percent of the pro abortion support between them, and that's if you're lucky. The reality is that 99 percent of the pro abortion support is already in Obama's camp.  

What world do you live in where adopting democrat positions delivers increased GOP support? That's not happening with Mitt. We aren't seeing the North sweep over with a realigning tide. No, quite the opposite.

We see Obama getting even stronger, and I already explained why that was. Given the choice between socialism light and real socialism, people go for the real thing, every time.

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Unfortunately, the 14th (privileges and immunities clause) states clearly that citizenship issues are a part of the enumerated federal government powers. A state can't treat the unborn as a person for the purposes of the state - this is also why Dred Scott got crushed.

You no longer have that path, and haven't had that path since the civil war, since that's what happened the last time states got to decide who were citizens and who were not.

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But it's not their call. Reynolds preserves that with the immigration restrictions granted under the Articles of Confederation. The federal government has the power to preserve marriage laws and regulations throughout the US, and as Reynolds says, it has the power to preserve the common law definition of marriage as one man and one woman.

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I'm not sure why you recognise that your policies are flawed. They will not work. Gay marriage in one part of the country will result in gay marriage being imposed on the entire country. That is what happened in Canada, and that is how it will happen in the US, and why your policy will trigger secession. Once again.
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Wisconsin+17
Ben Kenobi
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« Reply #29 on: April 10, 2012, 05:34:02 PM »

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There's no rational reason for democrat strength in WI, MI, PA, OH, IN, IA and MN.

Give them southern laws and southern policies and you would expect to see them vote the same way as the South. The Midwest is not the coasts.
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All Along The Watchtower
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« Reply #30 on: April 10, 2012, 05:35:15 PM »

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There's no rational reason for democrat strength in WI, MI, PA, OH, IN, IA and MN.

Give them southern laws and southern policies and you would expect to see them vote the same way as the South. The Midwest is not the coasts.

The Midwest is fairly distinct culturally from the South.
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LastVoter
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« Reply #31 on: April 10, 2012, 05:36:10 PM »

Ben Kenobi and Yankee need to retake PM test, unless both of you are trolling really hard. This thread doesn't make sense if you look at the scores. But to Ben Kenobi: southern interpretation of US values is a minority, and soon will be a powerless one.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #32 on: April 10, 2012, 05:51:47 PM »

The problem Ben Kenobi, is that you may have 50% who are pro-life, but some of which are in favor of Gay Rights. Some of which support big government. There is no 50% block that agrees with you on every issue 100%, Ben. That is my point and that is why your demanding strategy doesn't work. That is why you need moderation and nuance to at least some extent.

The other problem is that Mitt Romney is not who you claim him to be. He is at worst, a man without conviction. He is not pro-gay marriage and he is not currently pro-choice. I can understand not liking Mittens because he is a too politically exediant, but it makes no sense to oppose him on basis of a criteria which doesn't actually apply to him.

People don't vote for for one guy because the other guy didn't offer a contrast. They vote for the guy that offers the best vision for the country and/or plan to fix the countries problems. They will vote against someone they afraid to put in charge of Nukes or fear is too extreme.
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LastVoter
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« Reply #33 on: April 10, 2012, 05:56:31 PM »

The problem Ben Kenobi, is that you may have 50% who are pro-life, but some of which are in favor of Gay Rights. Some of which support big government. There is no 50% block that agrees with you on every issue 100%, Ben. That is my point and that is why your demanding strategy doesn't work. That is why you need moderation and nuance to at least some extent.

The other problem is that Mitt Romney is not who you claim him to be. He is at worst, a man without conviction. He is not pro-gay marriage and he is not currently pro-choice. I can understand not liking Mittens because he is a too politically exediant, but it makes no sense to oppose him on basis of a criteria which doesn't actually apply to him.

People don't vote for for one guy because the other guy didn't offer a contrast. They vote for the guy that offers the best vision for the country and/or plan to fix the countries problems. They will vote against someone they afraid to put in charge of Nukes or fear is too extreme.
You seem kind of moderate for your scores.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #34 on: April 10, 2012, 06:04:56 PM »

Ben Kenobi and Yankee need to retake PM test, unless both of you are trolling really hard. This thread doesn't make sense if you look at the scores.

Not really, I am just a really strategic person when it comes to achieving my objectives.

I have argued the same line about "Not being so demanding" against Sg0508 who as you know is the epitome of a moderate Republican. Ironically, both Sg and Ben have a lot in common in terms of their political approach, hence why I suggested they run together a page or two ago.

That said those PM scores are by and large garbage and you really shouldn't place so much attention to them. They aren't worth it. Most are innacurate or fakes.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2012, 06:05:59 PM »

The problem Ben Kenobi, is that you may have 50% who are pro-life, but some of which are in favor of Gay Rights. Some of which support big government. There is no 50% block that agrees with you on every issue 100%, Ben. That is my point and that is why your demanding strategy doesn't work. That is why you need moderation and nuance to at least some extent.

The other problem is that Mitt Romney is not who you claim him to be. He is at worst, a man without conviction. He is not pro-gay marriage and he is not currently pro-choice. I can understand not liking Mittens because he is a too politically exediant, but it makes no sense to oppose him on basis of a criteria which doesn't actually apply to him.

People don't vote for for one guy because the other guy didn't offer a contrast. They vote for the guy that offers the best vision for the country and/or plan to fix the countries problems. They will vote against someone they afraid to put in charge of Nukes or fear is too extreme.
You seem kind of moderate for your scores.

I haven't really said anything about my positions if you look back through these posts. Tongue
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LastVoter
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« Reply #36 on: April 10, 2012, 06:20:05 PM »

The problem Ben Kenobi, is that you may have 50% who are pro-life, but some of which are in favor of Gay Rights. Some of which support big government. There is no 50% block that agrees with you on every issue 100%, Ben. That is my point and that is why your demanding strategy doesn't work. That is why you need moderation and nuance to at least some extent.

The other problem is that Mitt Romney is not who you claim him to be. He is at worst, a man without conviction. He is not pro-gay marriage and he is not currently pro-choice. I can understand not liking Mittens because he is a too politically exediant, but it makes no sense to oppose him on basis of a criteria which doesn't actually apply to him.

People don't vote for for one guy because the other guy didn't offer a contrast. They vote for the guy that offers the best vision for the country and/or plan to fix the countries problems. They will vote against someone they afraid to put in charge of Nukes or fear is too extreme.
You seem kind of moderate for your scores.

I haven't really said anything about my positions if you look back through these posts. Tongue
True, but the argument between you and the other poster and considering each one's background is quite odd and hard for me to grasp.
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Wisconsin+17
Ben Kenobi
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« Reply #37 on: April 10, 2012, 06:24:07 PM »

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I would argue that a majority of the population is prolife and that a majority of the population is against gay marriage. Ergo, your argument has no merit here. If say 50 percent of those who were prolife, also supported gay marriage, then we should expect to see the exact same percentage voting for someone who was prolife and rejected gay marriage, as someone who accepted gay marriage and supported abortion. See what I'm saying?

Right now you've got that entire core of the republicans disenfranchised, while you've got Obama defending his core. This isn't a successful strategy, since both Romney and Obama are fighting for the same core.

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I'm willing to moderate on fiscal conservatism, but not on social. Your game.

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On the contrary, if I look at his actions, he is both pro choice and pro gay marriage, and supporting public funded health care. Maybe that seems odd to you, but some of us just want to be left alone, not forced by the government to pay for something that we do not want.

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And you're asking conservatives to buy into the man with no convictions. Can't you see why this is a disaster?
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NHI
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« Reply #38 on: April 10, 2012, 06:25:45 PM »

Congratulations to Rick Santorum on the race he ran. It is quite impressive on far he went. Now let us unite and make Barack Obama a one term President!
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #39 on: April 10, 2012, 06:28:18 PM »

The problem Ben Kenobi, is that you may have 50% who are pro-life, but some of which are in favor of Gay Rights. Some of which support big government. There is no 50% block that agrees with you on every issue 100%, Ben. That is my point and that is why your demanding strategy doesn't work. That is why you need moderation and nuance to at least some extent.

The other problem is that Mitt Romney is not who you claim him to be. He is at worst, a man without conviction. He is not pro-gay marriage and he is not currently pro-choice. I can understand not liking Mittens because he is a too politically exediant, but it makes no sense to oppose him on basis of a criteria which doesn't actually apply to him.

People don't vote for for one guy because the other guy didn't offer a contrast. They vote for the guy that offers the best vision for the country and/or plan to fix the countries problems. They will vote against someone they afraid to put in charge of Nukes or fear is too extreme.
You seem kind of moderate for your scores.

I haven't really said anything about my positions if you look back through these posts. Tongue
True, but the argument between you and the other poster and considering each one's background is quite odd and hard for me to grasp.

How so?
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #40 on: April 10, 2012, 06:32:04 PM »

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I would argue that a majority of the population is prolife and that a majority of the population is against gay marriage. Ergo, your argument has no merit here. If say 50 percent of those who were prolife, also supported gay marriage, then we should expect to see the exact same percentage voting for someone who was prolife and rejected gay marriage, as someone who accepted gay marriage and supported abortion. See what I'm saying?

Not necessarily. People have different priorities which adds a whole new dynamic to the mix, you are operating the on the assumption that the people will priortize the issue that would lead them to support conservatives. That may not be the case.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #41 on: April 10, 2012, 06:36:28 PM »

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I'm willing to moderate on fiscal conservatism, but not on social. Your game.

And there are conservatives who will moderate on social issues but not on fiscal ones. That is why it is best to moderate atleast somewhat on both so that you don't impose too much on one side at the expense of the other. That is a how a coalition works. Otherwise, the more imposed upon will begin to leave. The fiscal cons have been drifting away slowly over time. And you guys threaten to leave over the slightest request of sacrifice. That is what I mean by "my way or the way" and "too demanding".
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Frozen Sky Ever Why
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« Reply #42 on: April 10, 2012, 06:39:53 PM »

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I would argue that a majority of the population is prolife and that a majority of the population is against gay marriage. Ergo, your argument has no merit here. If say 50 percent of those who were prolife, also supported gay marriage, then we should expect to see the exact same percentage voting for someone who was prolife and rejected gay marriage, as someone who accepted gay marriage and supported abortion. See what I'm saying?

Right now you've got that entire core of the republicans disenfranchised, while you've got Obama defending his core. This isn't a successful strategy, since both Romney and Obama are fighting for the same core.

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I'm willing to moderate on fiscal conservatism, but not on social. Your game.

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On the contrary, if I look at his actions, he is both pro choice and pro gay marriage, and supporting public funded health care. Maybe that seems odd to you, but some of us just want to be left alone, not forced by the government to pay for something that we do not want.

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And you're asking conservatives to buy into the man with no convictions. Can't you see why this is a disaster?

Why do Romney's personal convictions matter anyway? As long as he promises to appoint a conservative judge, I'm happy.

And the gay marriage issue is lost, Hollywood and the media have successfully sold the propaganda, and the people have sold out themselves and their children into a society where perversity is celebrated as diversity. It's over.
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Ben Kenobi
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« Reply #43 on: April 10, 2012, 06:40:29 PM »

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100 percent capitulation to Obama on social issues is unacceptable. We had a moderate candidate who was acceptable to us. Perry. You folks turned him down. We had another moderate candidate who was acceptable to us. Cain. You folks turned him down.

Now you're demanding that we social conservatives give up everything on the issues we care most about. No sale. I'm tired of 'working with conservatives' who have no desire to work with me.
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LastVoter
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« Reply #44 on: April 10, 2012, 06:49:01 PM »

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100 percent capitulation to Obama on social issues is unacceptable. We had a moderate candidate who was acceptable to us. Perry. You folks turned him down. We had another moderate candidate who was acceptable to us. Cain. You folks turned him down.

Now you're demanding that we social conservatives give up everything on the issues we care most about. No sale. I'm tired of 'working with conservatives' who have no desire to work with me.
This could compete for funniest unintentional post of the year award.
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Ben Kenobi
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« Reply #45 on: April 10, 2012, 06:58:41 PM »

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Hollywood doesn't even represent California let alone the rest of flyover country. If this is your tactic to convince us to vote for Mitt by telling us that we are wrong and we have to sit down, strap in and shut up and vote for Mitt, that ain't happening.
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Frozen Sky Ever Why
ShadowOfTheWave
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« Reply #46 on: April 10, 2012, 07:05:37 PM »

This has nothing to do with Mitt. I'm saying that the cause is lost, you can't even argue against gay marriage anymore without being called a bigot. According to Gallup, 53% of the country now favors gay marriage, and the younger the voters are, the more liberal they are on the issue.

Personally, I'd rather the conservative movement focus on opposing gay adoptions, but stunningly, people seem even less opposed to that than gay marriage.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #47 on: April 10, 2012, 07:07:33 PM »

There is another problem.


You are exaggerating the amount of sacrifice. I am talking about 20% tops. And you are exaggerating the gulf which divides the party.
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Wisconsin+17
Ben Kenobi
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« Reply #48 on: April 10, 2012, 07:10:57 PM »

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This should warrant an infraction. Maybe you think anyone who opposes gay marriage is a bigot, but you are very wrong here.

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When put on the ballot in CA, it lost. It has lost every single time the people have been given the option of voting on it.

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And people like you are why we'll be seeing another Obama victory in the fall. Go on, call your base bigots and see if they bother to show up for you on election day.

You've already driven one away from the republican party, and there are plenty more faithful Christians just like me. Smiley

If the Republican party believes that I'm a bigot, then I'll oblige them by not voting for them, and they can pursue the gay marriage vote and fight with Obama over the exact same base. Smiley
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #49 on: April 10, 2012, 07:24:00 PM »

"I swear by god if you don't give me every god damn thing I want, I will stay home and not vote for any Republicans ever again. HOW DARE YOU IMPOSE ON ME LIKE THIS?!!!! Asking that I give up something. Really! It's barbaric I say, BARBARIC!!!"


Politics is about sacrifice to achieve priorities.
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