Did George Zimmerman vote for Obama?

[LastVoter]

A picture is worth a thousand words. You know you can take screenshots of google maps and draw the approx position of martin's house, and 7/11.

[jimrtex]

I doubt the Minneapolis PD would ever do that, since they would rather deal with other things than some wannabe vigilante jackass reporting anything "suspicious". Believe me, "anything out of the ordinary" here would be there NOT being any unrecognized people walking in areas like backalleys.

I mean I do see signs in some places saying neighborhood watch and that they'll report crimes, but it means just that, they'll report any crimes being witnessed, not drive around aimlessly looking for "suspicious" people. And then of course if such a person is found getting outside and confronting them with a gun which the 911 dispatcher says explicitly not to do (and is also just common sense).

Minneapolis Block Clubs and Apartment Clubs

Minneapolis Police Department Crime Prevention Specialist and Lieutenant Contacts

If I read this correctly, the police don't care about what happens north of Lake Street.  Is that the southern limit of the hood?

[they don't love you like i love you]

And if you read that you will see it's not about having random people drive around looking for "suspicious" individuals. After all it's talking about blocks and apartments, not large areas, and apartments clubs obviously wouldn't involve driving at all. But once again J. J. is saying I should call the police every single time I see someone behind the apartments here I don't recognize. If I stood on a balcony looking out back I'd be calling the police multiple times an hour if that was the case. BTW to add to my driving to work anecdote above, I actually DID see someone behind my apartment I had never seen before while walking to my car. It's such an common occurance I don't even think about it when it happens!

Lake Street runs across the notoriously crime-ridden Phillips neighborhood, is known for shady businesses everywhere from Uptown till the Target, and just about all the areas south of it are very white and middle class.

And adding to that, if I called 911 every time I was driving on Lake Street and saw someone who looked like Trayvon Martin in a hoodie, that would mean I'd be making multiple 911 calls every time I went to Target. Mind you someone looking like Trayvon Martin in a hoodie would be near the bottom of the list of threatening looking individuals I see in Phillips. Number of times I have called 911 in that area: 0

[jimrtex]

A picture is worth a thousand words. You know you can take screenshots of google maps and draw the approx position of martin's house, and 7/11.

Google Maps 1231 Twin Trees Sanford Florida.   Shooting took place behind there, near the north-south sidewalk that comes to a T on the east-west sidewalk.  Zimmerman was on the east-west jog of Twin Trees during start of phone call.

Brandy Green's house is in southernmost unit along north-south sidewalk on east side of walk.

Retreat View Circle makes complete loop of  subdivision, while Twin Trees connects the two entrances, which are both on Oregon, which follows north and east around the subdivision.

Pay particular attention to the distances (scale in lower left corner).

Find directions to Sam's Club, Rinehart Road, Sanford, FL.   Sam's Club is the big building south of Rinehart.  The (apparent) 7/11 is in front in a strip center.  If you use the little man for the street view you can see it on the left of the entrance into Sam's Club.

[LastVoter]

A picture is worth a thousand words. You know you can take screenshots of google maps and draw the approx position of martin's house, and 7/11.

Google Maps 1231 Twin Trees Sanford Florida.   Shooting took place behind there, near the north-south sidewalk that comes to a T on the east-west sidewalk.  Zimmerman was on the east-west jog of Twin Trees during start of phone call.

Brandy Green's house is in southernmost unit along north-south sidewalk on east side of walk.

Retreat View Circle makes complete loop of  subdivision, while Twin Trees connects the two entrances, which are both on Oregon, which follows north and east around the subdivision.

Pay particular attention to the distances (scale in lower left corner).

Find directions to Sam's Club, Rinehart Road, Sanford, FL.   Sam's Club is the big building south of Rinehart.  The (apparent) 7/11 is in front in a strip center.  If you use the little man for the street view you can see it on the left of the entrance into Sam's Club.

The way that neighborhood is setup it seems like any place(on the road, or the sidewalk behind a house) would be a reasonable place for a pedestrian, unless you live in 1984 world. I lived in a similar apartment complex in East TN which was composed of two-story 3 bedroom units in groups of 8. Kids always walked behind houses on the grass and on parking lots. There fence also had a break in it in one corner of the neighborhood so people could walk to to the nearby store.

[jimrtex]

And if you read that you will see it's not about having random people drive around looking for "suspicious" individuals. After all it's talking about blocks and apartments, not large areas, and apartments clubs obviously wouldn't involve driving at all.

The neighborhood is not all that large.  It has around 45 6-unit builds, 250 in total.  The street that loops the entire neighborhood is 0.6 miles long.  Google says it can be walked in 11 minutes.

How do you know that they don't have block captains?

Lake Street runs across the notoriously crime-ridden Phillips neighborhood, is known for shady businesses everywhere from Uptown till the Target, and just about all the areas south of it are very white and middle class.

It appears that the crime prevention teams only work south of Lake Street.  There are probably plans to set up a security barrier when the riots start.

And adding to that, if I called 911 every time I was driving on Lake Street and saw someone who looked like Trayvon Martin in a hoodie, that would mean I'd be making multiple 911 calls every time I went to Target. Mind you someone looking like Trayvon Martin in a hoodie would be near the bottom of the list of threatening looking individuals I see in Phillips. Number of times I have called 911 in that area: 0

How far do you live from Lake Street?

If you heard a smoke detector going off, would you call 911?  If you saw someone lying along the side of the street would you call 911?   If you saw a tree branch that was extending out into the street, in a position where it wasn't particularly visible and there were already a couple of outside mirrors knocked off, would you report it?  If you heard breaking glass, late at night would you call 911?  If you heard an auto accident, but didn't see it, would you go check it out.

Most neighborhoods in Houston don't have alleys.  In an area that does, there were a couple dozen fires in a few months within a few blocks, generally in the wee hours along the alleys.  If you lived in the area, would you report anyone you saw along the alley at night?

[they don't love you like i love you]

And if you read that you will see it's not about having random people drive around looking for "suspicious" individuals. After all it's talking about blocks and apartments, not large areas, and apartments clubs obviously wouldn't involve driving at all.

The neighborhood is not all that large.  It has around 45 6-unit builds, 250 in total.  The street that loops the entire neighborhood is 0.6 miles long.  Google says it can be walked in 11 minutes.

How do you know that they don't have block captains?

They might. The point is, the idea is not to go drive around looking for "suspicious" people, especially since we appear to be defining "suspicious" as "not recognized by people in the neighborhood", which brings xenophobia to a whole new level.

Lake Street runs across the notoriously crime-ridden Phillips neighborhood, is known for shady businesses everywhere from Uptown till the Target, and just about all the areas south of it are very white and middle class.

It appears that the crime prevention teams only work south of Lake Street.  There are probably plans to set up a security barrier when the riots start.

And adding to that, if I called 911 every time I was driving on Lake Street and saw someone who looked like Trayvon Martin in a hoodie, that would mean I'd be making multiple 911 calls every time I went to Target. Mind you someone looking like Trayvon Martin in a hoodie would be near the bottom of the list of threatening looking individuals I see in Phillips. Number of times I have called 911 in that area: 0

How far do you live from Lake Street?

Not far. My approximate location is on my profile.

If you heard a smoke detector going off, would you call 911?  If you saw someone lying along the side of the street would you call 911?   If you saw a tree branch that was extending out into the street, in a position where it wasn't particularly visible and there were already a couple of outside mirrors knocked off, would you report it?  If you heard breaking glass, late at night would you call 911?  If you heard an auto accident, but didn't see it, would you go check it out.

I've done one of those actually (guy passed alongside a bus stop around 2AM one night.) The others, no.

Most neighborhoods in Houston don't have alleys.  In an area that does, there were a couple dozen fires in a few months within a few blocks, generally in the wee hours along the alleys.  If you lived in the area, would you report anyone you saw along the alley at night?

Probably not, no. I myself am frequently in back alleys at night if I ever park behind my apartment.

[jimrtex]

The way that neighborhood is setup it seems like any place(on the road, or the sidewalk behind a house) would be a reasonable place for a pedestrian, unless you live in 1984 world. I lived in a similar apartment complex in East TN which was composed of two-story 3 bedroom units in groups of 8. Kids always walked behind houses on the grass and on parking lots. There fence also had a break in it in one corner of the neighborhood so people could walk to to the nearby store.

There is no wall on the west and south sides of the neighborhood.   In the NE corner is a walkway to an apartment complex (to the west).   It is conceivable that Martin came across their rather than through the main entrance.   If Zimmerman saw him there it was before he called.

The one burglary in the area that was solved was when police stopped four persons on bikes (three black males, one white males).   The police asked if they owned the laptops.  They said no.  The serial number matched one that had been stolen in the neighborhood.  The burglaries appear to have been mostly just quick entry, grab and run.

The fantasy that has been planted in everyone's mind was that the White Wannabe Cop who wanted to kill the 17 YO who looked 14 who had simply gone to the store to buy skittles had stalked him or "raced ahead" to cut him off.

Sure he might be 250 pounds on a 5'9 frame but he is half-Peruvian.   They're faster than they look and they can run long distances because of their altitude training in the Andes.

But the reality was that Zimmerman watched Martin for two minutes while he talked to the dispatcher, and an unknown time before he called.  Martin was not simply walking.  There was too much time, and too little distance.

[jimrtex]

The neighborhood is not all that large.  It has around 45 6-unit builds, 250 in total.  The street that loops the entire neighborhood is 0.6 miles long.  Google says it can be walked in 11 minutes.

How do you know that they don't have block captains?

They might. The point is, the idea is not to go drive around looking for "suspicious" people, especially since we appear to be defining "suspicious" as "not recognized by people in the neighborhood", which brings xenophobia to a whole new level.

Zimmerman was on his way to the store.   Who is "we" who "appear" to be defining 'suspicious'?

Most neighborhoods in Houston don't have alleys.  In an area that does, there were a couple dozen fires in a few months within a few blocks, generally in the wee hours along the alleys.  If you lived in the area, would you report anyone you saw along the alley at night?

Probably not, no. I myself am frequently in back alleys at night if I ever park behind my apartment.[/quote]
Even if the police organized a neighborhood meeting.   Wouldn't you be concerned that someone could be killed in a fire?

[LastVoter]

The way that neighborhood is setup it seems like any place(on the road, or the sidewalk behind a house) would be a reasonable place for a pedestrian, unless you live in 1984 world. I lived in a similar apartment complex in East TN which was composed of two-story 3 bedroom units in groups of 8. Kids always walked behind houses on the grass and on parking lots. There fence also had a break in it in one corner of the neighborhood so people could walk to to the nearby store.

There is no wall on the west and south sides of the neighborhood.   In the NE corner is a walkway to an apartment complex (to the west).   It is conceivable that Martin came across their rather than through the main entrance.   If Zimmerman saw him there it was before he called.

The one burglary in the area that was solved was when police stopped four persons on bikes (three black males, one white males).   The police asked if they owned the laptops.  They said no.  The serial number matched one that had been stolen in the neighborhood.  The burglaries appear to have been mostly just quick entry, grab and run.

The fantasy that has been planted in everyone's mind was that the White Wannabe Cop who wanted to kill the 17 YO who looked 14 who had simply gone to the store to buy skittles had stalked him or "raced ahead" to cut him off.

Sure he might be 250 pounds on a 5'9 frame but he is half-Peruvian.   They're faster than they look and they can run long distances because of their altitude training in the Andes.

But the reality was that Zimmerman watched Martin for two minutes while he talked to the dispatcher, and an unknown time before he called.  Martin was not simply walking.  There was too much time, and too little distance.

This is getting absurd.

[they don't love you like i love you]

The neighborhood is not all that large.  It has around 45 6-unit builds, 250 in total.  The street that loops the entire neighborhood is 0.6 miles long.  Google says it can be walked in 11 minutes.

How do you know that they don't have block captains?

They might. The point is, the idea is not to go drive around looking for "suspicious" people, especially since we appear to be defining "suspicious" as "not recognized by people in the neighborhood", which brings xenophobia to a whole new level.

Zimmerman was on his way to the store.   Who is "we" who "appear" to be defining 'suspicious'?

Well pretty much just J. J. I suppose, but he's the one arguing that noticing a person in a neighborhood you don't recognize warrants a 911 call. I don't think the point of most neighborhood watch organizations is to call 911 for every single un-recognized person in the neighborhood (though I tend not to be fond of them in general, you don't need some nonsense group to call 911 if you see an actual crime committed, so they mostly just empower wannabe vigilantes like Zimmerman.)

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Probably not, no. I myself am frequently in back alleys at night if I ever park behind my apartment.

Even if the police organized a neighborhood meeting.   Wouldn't you be concerned that someone could be killed in a fire?[/quote]

I'm not one to attend neighborhood meetings, and I doubt any that happen here attract anywhere near 15000 people (our whole population). But you're raising a hypothetical with completely different circumstances than I've ever been in. The point is I have never once called 911 because of someone in a back alley here, and if I was a majority of the calls I'd make would be to 911 and I don't think the Minneapolis PD want to be investigating every random person in a hoodie in an apartment back alley. Of course even that's not the question, but whether it's OK to engage such a person after being explicitly told not too by a 911 operator and then shoot them.

[J. J.]

The neighborhood is not all that large.  It has around 45 6-unit builds, 250 in total.  The street that loops the entire neighborhood is 0.6 miles long.  Google says it can be walked in 11 minutes.

How do you know that they don't have block captains?

They might. The point is, the idea is not to go drive around looking for "suspicious" people, especially since we appear to be defining "suspicious" as "not recognized by people in the neighborhood", which brings xenophobia to a whole new level.

Zimmerman was on his way to the store.   Who is "we" who "appear" to be defining 'suspicious'?

Well pretty much just J. J. I suppose, but he's the one arguing that noticing a person in a neighborhood you don't recognize warrants a 911 call. I don't think the point of most neighborhood watch organizations is to call 911 for every single un-recognized person in the neighborhood (though I tend not to be fond of them in general, you don't need some nonsense group to call 911 if you see an actual crime committed, so they mostly just empower wannabe vigilantes like Zimmerman.)

No, that's only part of it.  It's where he is (not a resident or a frequent guest, and not in the area where most people walk), time of day and weather conditions, that he didn't appear to be going from Point A to Point B (looking at buildings, not looking at house numbers). 

Typical strawman argument from BRTD.

[ag]

To sum up, I really love this description of America as the place where walking the street is a suspicious activity, warranting a police investigation. I've always been under the impression, that the US is a free country and not a police state of the North Korean type. Apparently, at least according to J.J., I was wrong.

You were wrong.  The bulk of Americans don't walk behind houses, in strange neighborhoods, at night, in the rain.  It is not criminal, but it is unusual, and suspicious.  It does warrant the police saying, "Hey, what are you doing here."

I know what Amercians do and don't. Been there.

So, according to you, if somebody does something that the bulk of the Americans don't do, he should be stopped by the police. In my book, that's the very DEFINITION of a police state.

BTW, the bulk of Americans do not post on forums such as this one. Hmm....

[jimrtex]

called 911 because of someone in a back alley here, and if I was a majority of the calls I'd make would be to 911 and I don't think the Minneapolis PD want to be investigating every random person in a hoodie in an apartment back alley. Of course even that's not the question, but whether it's OK to engage such a person after being explicitly told not too by a 911 operator and then shoot them.

The previous suspicious persons Zimmerman reported were wearing tank tops, shorts and sandals.   Do you think it was the hoodie that set him off to start shooting?   The neighborhood is about 25% black, with 3 and 4 bedroom townhouses, across the street from an elementary school, so there are likely to be quite a few children in the neighborhood.

Do you think that Zimmerman the wannabe cop of your fervid imagination who is constantly patrolling the neighborhood 10, 20, even 30 hours a night, had only seen a black youth once every couple of months?

What evidence do you have that Zimmerman engaged Martin?

[J. J.]

I know what Amercians do and don't. Been there.

So, according to you, if somebody does something that the bulk of the Americans don't do, he should be stopped by the police. In my book, that's the very DEFINITION of a police state.

AG, you obviously don't know what is normal or not normal.  Sorry if you don't think someone who sure sounds like a prowler, though his actions, should be reported by town watch to the police.  That means that the police will be alerted and that they will be able to make their own observation (at least in theory).

[ag]

I know what Amercians do and don't. Been there.

So, according to you, if somebody does something that the bulk of the Americans don't do, he should be stopped by the police. In my book, that's the very DEFINITION of a police state.

AG, you obviously don't know what is normal or not normal.  Sorry if you don't think someone who sure sounds like a prowler, though his actions, should be reported by town watch to the police.  That means that the police will be alerted and that they will be able to make their own observation (at least in theory).

I know what's normal. I also strongly believe that nobody is under any obligation to act normal. At least, unless we are talking about a police state, which is what you, J.J., believe the United States of America is - or, at least, want it to be.

[Gustaf]

Ok, I'll try and help here. This obviously depends on the area you're talking about.

My parents live in a suburb, pretty far outside of the city. There is nothing to see or visit there, just residential houses where families and old couples live.

If you see a stranger walking around there you'll be suspicious. My mother often is. Which is natural. There is no reason why anyone would be walking around there if they don't live there (or is visiting someone). And it is fairly common with break-ins and such things there. I imagine this is even more pronounced in the US with high crime rates, etc.

Me on the other hand, I live in in the city centre. Here weird people are walking around everywhere all the time, there are parties, bars, etc. I once came out of my room to find a drug addict staring into our hallway mirror. (not sure which way that example cuts though, come to think of it)

It obviously makes no sense for me to report someone wandering around here.

Sometimes late at night I want to get out and take a walk and so I drive to a safer suburban neighborhood. Does that make me suspicious?
Or maybe I'm okay because I'm white, physically unimpressive, and I don't wear a hoodie?

I'm assuming this is some kind of joke, right? Or do you actually do that? It surely can't be all that common though, can it?

[ag]

Anyway, returning to the original topic

Yes, Zimmerman is a Dem and, probably, voted for Obama. There is no evidence that "in the abstract" he hates blacks either - though he, probably, has a prejudice against young black males.  From what we know, he is a trigger-happy paranoid sh**t-scared out of his wits idiot - that seems to be his normal state. Because he is sh**t-scared of living on this planet, he killed an innocent kid. But there is no reason to suggest he is somehow evil - he might be a nice, humane, guy, just sh**t-scared. Most cruelties in this world, really, happen not because people are bad, but because they are sh**t-scared of living. And, in fact, we all sometimes are - the main difference is that not all of us go around carrying guns. I, for one, wouldn't trust myself w/ a gun - for this very reason.

Disclaimer: for those who react to the word "guns", I am actually using this word here somewhat metaphorically.

[J. J.]

I know what Amercians do and don't. Been there.

So, according to you, if somebody does something that the bulk of the Americans don't do, he should be stopped by the police. In my book, that's the very DEFINITION of a police state.

AG, you obviously don't know what is normal or not normal.  Sorry if you don't think someone who sure sounds like a prowler, though his actions, should be reported by town watch to the police.  That means that the police will be alerted and that they will be able to make their own observation (at least in theory).

I know what's normal. I also strongly believe that nobody is under any obligation to act normal. At least, unless we are talking about a police state, which is what you, J.J., believe the United States of America is - or, at least, want it to be.

People are not obliged to act normally, but they must understand that it will produce extra scrutiny. 

I'm perfectly free to where a metal back brace, which I do wear.  I understand that by wearing it, I will get extra scrutiny going through a metal detector, which I do.  That is reasonable; it is done as a precaution.

Sorry if you don't agree with "See something.  Say something."

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Ok, I'll try and help here. This obviously depends on the area you're talking about.

My parents live in a suburb, pretty far outside of the city. There is nothing to see or visit there, just residential houses where families and old couples live.

If you see a stranger walking around there you'll be suspicious. My mother often is. Which is natural. There is no reason why anyone would be walking around there if they don't live there (or is visiting someone). And it is fairly common with break-ins and such things there. I imagine this is even more pronounced in the US with high crime rates, etc.

Me on the other hand, I live in in the city centre. Here weird people are walking around everywhere all the time, there are parties, bars, etc. I once came out of my room to find a drug addict staring into our hallway mirror. (not sure which way that example cuts though, come to think of it)

It obviously makes no sense for me to report someone wandering around here.

Sometimes late at night I want to get out and take a walk and so I drive to a safer suburban neighborhood. Does that make me suspicious?
Or maybe I'm okay because I'm white, physically unimpressive, and I don't wear a hoodie?

I'm assuming this is some kind of joke, right? Or do you actually do that? It surely can't be all that common though, can it?

Why would I be joking? It's a perfectly reasonable and wholesome activity.  Just because something may be uncommon shouldn't make it suspicious.

[ag]

Ok, I'll try and help here. This obviously depends on the area you're talking about.

My parents live in a suburb, pretty far outside of the city. There is nothing to see or visit there, just residential houses where families and old couples live.

If you see a stranger walking around there you'll be suspicious. My mother often is. Which is natural. There is no reason why anyone would be walking around there if they don't live there (or is visiting someone). And it is fairly common with break-ins and such things there. I imagine this is even more pronounced in the US with high crime rates, etc.

Me on the other hand, I live in in the city centre. Here weird people are walking around everywhere all the time, there are parties, bars, etc. I once came out of my room to find a drug addict staring into our hallway mirror. (not sure which way that example cuts though, come to think of it)

It obviously makes no sense for me to report someone wandering around here.

Sometimes late at night I want to get out and take a walk and so I drive to a safer suburban neighborhood. Does that make me suspicious?
Or maybe I'm okay because I'm white, physically unimpressive, and I don't wear a hoodie?

I'm assuming this is some kind of joke, right? Or do you actually do that? It surely can't be all that common though, can it?

Why would I be joking? It's a perfectly reasonable and wholesome activity.  Just because something may be uncommon shouldn't make it suspicious.

Well, it makes it legitimate to shoot you, doesn't it?

[Gustaf]

Ok, I'll try and help here. This obviously depends on the area you're talking about.

My parents live in a suburb, pretty far outside of the city. There is nothing to see or visit there, just residential houses where families and old couples live.

If you see a stranger walking around there you'll be suspicious. My mother often is. Which is natural. There is no reason why anyone would be walking around there if they don't live there (or is visiting someone). And it is fairly common with break-ins and such things there. I imagine this is even more pronounced in the US with high crime rates, etc.

Me on the other hand, I live in in the city centre. Here weird people are walking around everywhere all the time, there are parties, bars, etc. I once came out of my room to find a drug addict staring into our hallway mirror. (not sure which way that example cuts though, come to think of it)

It obviously makes no sense for me to report someone wandering around here.

Sometimes late at night I want to get out and take a walk and so I drive to a safer suburban neighborhood. Does that make me suspicious?
Or maybe I'm okay because I'm white, physically unimpressive, and I don't wear a hoodie?

I'm assuming this is some kind of joke, right? Or do you actually do that? It surely can't be all that common though, can it?

Why would I be joking? It's a perfectly reasonable and wholesome activity.  Just because something may be uncommon shouldn't make it suspicious.

Well, it makes it legitimate to shoot you, doesn't it?

Yes, that part went without saying, I thought.

I can't imagine going away in a car in order to take a walk. Unless it's common it doesn't really affect my point either.

[Joe Republic]

I can't imagine going away in a car in order to take a walk. Unless it's common it doesn't really affect my point either.

Yet again*, this is America.  To be considered an ordinary citizen and avoid suspicion, you must drive to get around, including when you're just walking.


* The perceived exasperation there isn't directed at you, Gus.

[memphis]

Lots of old people drive to mall to go walking, but that's more about the climate control than anything else. I don't think anybody would want to go for a walk here in July or in Minnesota in January.

[they don't love you like i love you]

Lots of old people drive to mall to go walking, but that's more about the climate control than anything else. I don't think anybody would want to go for a walk here in July or in Minnesota in January.

Believe it or not, people do. People here even BIKE in January, though that's probably just a Minneapolis thing and I doubt is too common in the suburbs.