How would you have treated confederate leaders? (user search)
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  How would you have treated confederate leaders? (search mode)
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Author Topic: How would you have treated confederate leaders?  (Read 29837 times)
Peter
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,030


Political Matrix
E: -0.77, S: -7.48

« on: January 17, 2005, 07:43:11 AM »

Thanks to FindLaw

The Constitution is silent as to the methods of disposing of property of the United States. In United States v. Gratiot, in which the validity of a lease of lead mines on government lands was put in issue, the contention was advanced that ''disposal is not letting or leasing,'' and that Congress has no power ''to give or authorize leases.'' The Court sustained the leases, saying ''the disposal must be left to the discretion of Congress."

...

In the territories, Congress has the entire dominion and sovereignty, national and local, and has full legislative power over all subjects upon which a state legislature might act. It may legislate directly with respect to the local affairs of a territory or it may transfer that function to a legislature elected by the citizens thereof, which will then be invested with all legislative power except as limited by the Constitution of the United States and acts of Congress.

Pertinent Footnotes can be seen by viewing the text directly

The Constitution gave to Congress the power to determine whether slavery could be practiced in the Territories. Obviously, the 13th now supercedes all of this.

To all those who think that the States were somehow able to secede legally, ponder the following:

The Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land as per Article VI. Article VI actually says that State Laws and Constitutions cannot contradict the Federal Constitution. A State Law that says the Federal Constituiton in a State is void is quite clearly in contradiction with the Federal Constitution since it attempts to dismantle it and to give it no effective force, which is exactly what the Supremacy clause said could not happen.

Before the words "tenth amendment" pass your fingers, ponder this: The Tenth Amendment changed nothing from the Original Constitution, it simply stated a principle that every Framer considered implicit in the original document.

''The Tenth Amendment was intended to confirm the understanding of the people at the time the Constitution was adopted, that powers not granted to the United States were reserved to the States or to the people. It added nothing to the instrument as originally ratified.'' - United States v. Sprague (1931)

The tenth amendment therefore could in no way have modified the Supremacy Clause and therefore my argument from the Supremacy Clause remains. Therefore the attempt by States to leave the Union was unconstitutional and an attempt at rebellion, and arguably treason since they established themselves as enemies of the United States. The United States was well within powers to put down this rebellion, and did so.

I don't know what I would have done with the secessionists considering that I'm not too aware of the politics surrounding it, though given my intrasigent nature to people I think have commited treason, I probably would have been harsh.
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Peter
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,030


Political Matrix
E: -0.77, S: -7.48

« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2005, 09:16:45 PM »

The right of Secession has been and always will be the right of the people to alter or abolish any form of government that does not work for them.

The "Right" to secede from the Union would belong to the States not to the people since it is the States that are members of the Union not individuals. This is of course presumes that it exists, which it doesn't. Also consider that the Ninth Amendment in no way affected the original construction of the Constituion, so my interpretation of the Supremacy Clause continues to stand.

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I don't think its naive - they were interested in forming an ever closer Union. I don't think they would have built a system that would allow for States to leave just because they don't like the results of an election.

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We cannot base our interpretation on what was not in the Constitution, only what is in it, which includes the Supremacy Clause.

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Madison later changed his mind. The fact that nobody complained in 1814 has no bearing on the constituitonality of secession.

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De Tocqueville was not in a position to make a binding interpretation of the Constitution.

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Once again, it would be the "right" of States, not people.

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Everybody retains a right to revolution and rebellion, this is true. Fortunately the Constitution authorises the Federal Government to put down such rebellions. And didn't they just.
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