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Author Topic: This is ridiculous  (Read 9907 times)
Torie
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« on: May 05, 2012, 04:27:54 pm »

If attacking public figures viciously and without quarter is infractionable, I would like to know about that, because I do that myself from time to time. Of course, it is unfair to call the Mormon religion (particularly at this juncture) racist, and ludicrous to call Mittens a racist because he is a Mormon, but that is life in the public square. Those that go there in my view simply impeach themselves, res ipsa loquitur.

I would have to see and study the exact context for the instant case at hand, but absent some curve ball such posts should not be infractionable in my opinion. In my mind, there is a bright line between how one interacts and treats posters here, and how one characterizes public figures from afar.

If someone thinks I have this wrong, let's chat about it. Thanks.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 04:30:25 pm by Torie »Logged
Torie
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« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2012, 04:36:01 pm »

If people were posting stuff about Scientology comparable to the standard anti-Mormon posts we get, it wouldn't be controversial or infracted at all.

Putting aside the issue at hand, I think it fair to draw a line between Scientology and more "standard" religions. In my view, Scientology is a scam, which uses tactics which are malum in se. They are great for lawyers however, since they create a lot of litigation, particularly when they get some company owner to see the light, and then go about systematically trying to bring all the employees into the fold - or do what it takes to cause them to take a hike. Our office has had a couple of cases like that. We made the Scientologists pay.  Smiley
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Torie
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« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2012, 11:14:12 am »

Someone who posts that Mittens is racist based solely on the alleged tenets or former tenets of the LDS, just reveals that the poster as a fool really, and in some sense, that is worse than getting infraction points in my book. If that same poster however posts the same thing ad nauseum, that to me is a form of infractible "trolling" and spamming. And there is some value in an interaction where a poster posts such nonsense, and then is knocked down for it based on the merits, rather than it just floating out there as some unspoken consideration. After all, that attitude is out there.  That is my two cents.
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Torie
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« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2012, 01:30:13 pm »

Someone who posts that Mittens is racist based solely on the alleged tenets or former tenets of the LDS, just reveals that the poster as a fool really, and in some sense, that is worse than getting infraction points in my book.

the legitimacy of LDS is linked to the legitimacy of Joseph Smith, such that if Joseph Smith's statements prove him to be a clown, then the LDS is full of clowns.

is that not a fair statement?

No, that is guilt by association. Folks associated with some outfit rarely believe everything the outfit subscribes to anyway.  Moving right along, sure Smith made improbable claims, but then so did Christ, or what the authors of the Bible claimed that Christ did anyway. It's just that the latter has more vintage to it, and the paper trail is murkier and more mysterious. Different leaps for different leapers.
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Torie
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« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2012, 02:14:55 pm »

Putting aside the guilt by association thing, to which I take exception, given your POV, your logic appears flawless to me.
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« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2012, 03:08:05 pm »

This is the wrong place for a heavy duty religious discussion jmfcst, and as one who is Godless, yes of course I question many of the claims made about Jesus.  As to whether or not he was personally a charlatan, or while sincere himself, was marketed by charlatans, I have no idea. Just my POV of course.

Anyway, we need to move on here.
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« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2012, 04:05:51 pm »

Yes jmfcst, if an outfit is the embodiment of truth, then there is not much potential in trying to tar someone by being associated with it. If it is not, then we get into the guilt by association discussion. Just because an outfit has some warts to it, does not mean one associated with it necessarily does as well ipso facto, res ipse loquitur. The end.
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« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2012, 04:48:21 pm »

Matter of degree I guess. I mean, if a guy were a member of the Nazi SS, I suppose we are getting close to if not actually in, res ipsa loquitur territory. It's a judgment call. And part of that judgment is that some outfits are arguably just plain evil, ala Scientology. The LDS is not in that category. That's my judgment.
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« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2012, 10:06:50 am »

The few LDS folks with whom I interact, or have interacted, are upper middle class, and we just don't discuss religion. It's not polite, and it would be even less polite to probe into whether they really believe this or that about their religion. They do get some ribbing for belonging to "the cult" and take it with good nature, and laugh. I had a lawsuit where the other side was represented by the nephew of Senator Crapo, and he was a pleasure to deal with - unusual in the litigation world. I try to interact with folks as individuals, as opposed to filtering them based on their background or beliefs or whatever. Humans are just a lot more complex than that. I find my interactions to be just so much richer and more interesting that way.

Yes, the LDS does have some cult-like tendencies, but I don't consider them evil. Sure they have strange beliefs, but for skeptics, most of these leaps of faith in any religion embracing the supernatural and miracles and so forth are kind of bizarre. You reflect however an animus towards the LDS that is fairly widespread. It would be nice if we had a bit more tolerance, and more of a live, and let live, attitude, rather than just demonizing the other. Among other things, in my experience, it makes one a happier person. We all have our own little unique journeys in life, and our own constraints, and inherited support groups and the like.
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Torie
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« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2012, 11:35:41 am »

EMD remInds me of the ex-Catholics in my family, or Mikado on religious Judaism. A case where having more of an interaction with something makes one more opposed to it.

Mikado is a lapsed Jew?

That is what he has posted, yes.
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