what do you make of this George Soros interview?
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  what do you make of this George Soros interview?
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Author Topic: what do you make of this George Soros interview?  (Read 2014 times)
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jmfcst
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« on: May 08, 2012, 11:34:12 AM »

from the 20 December 1998 broadcast of 60 Minutes:

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opebo
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« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2012, 11:59:00 AM »

Well, you know, jmfcst, privileged people almost never have any guilt for the crimes they commit - look at the right-wing upper classes throughout history the world over.  What Soros the boy did was nothing - only as a capitalist man did he truly transgress.
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« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2012, 12:04:31 PM »

I'm not quite comfortable with the implication that surviving the Holocaust is something one should feel quilty about.
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jmfcst
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« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2012, 12:08:51 PM »

I'm not quite comfortable with the implication that surviving the Holocaust is something one should feel quilty about.

even if you aided the Nazis?
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belgiansocialist
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« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2012, 12:17:51 PM »

I'm not quite comfortable with the implication that surviving the Holocaust is something one should feel quilty about.

even if you aided the Nazis?

a) Soros was 14 at the time.
b) He didn't actively hurt anyone as far as I can gather from that interview. Just participated in the confiscation of goods that were going to be confiscated anyway.
c) How many came out of the Death Camps as morally pure as they had entered them? As Primo Levi explores at length in his works, part of the KZ's perversion was that they forced you to be a wolf to your fellow man if you were interested in in survival. 'Survivor Guilt' is a well-documented phenomenon
d) As a general rule it's best to abstain from judging the survival strategies of people during the Shoah if you have never been persecuted yourself.*

*: There are obvious exceptions to that rule, but Soros isn't one of them.

Disclaimer: I actually personally dislike George Soros at least somewhat. 
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jmfcst
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« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2012, 12:39:24 PM »

c) How many came out of the Death Camps as morally pure as they had entered them? As Primo Levi explores at length in his works, part of the KZ's perversion was that they forced you to be a wolf to your fellow man if you were interested in in survival. 'Survivor Guilt' is a well-documented phenomenon

quilt is not a problem for Soros:

KROFT: Went out, in fact, and helped in the confiscation of property from the Jews.

Mr. SOROS: Yes. That's right. Yes.

KROFT: I mean, that's -- that sounds like an experience that would send lots of people to the psychiatric couch for many, many years. Was it difficult?

Mr. SOROS: Not -- not at all. Not at all. Maybe as a child you don't -- you don't see the connection. But it was -- it created no -- no problem at all.

KROFT: No feeling of guilt?

Mr. SOROS: No.
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« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2012, 12:52:26 PM »

Again, you seem to imply that he should feel guilty. You seem to imply that Holocaust Survivor X should feel guilty about the bread he took from his dying fellow inmate, that one should feel guilty for whatever little acts of betrayal were necessary for survival. What exactly did Soros do that he should feel guilty about? He carried around a bit of furniture.

And using the Holocaust to beat on political opponents within the confines of the little game of parliamentary politics is beyond the pale. Just so you know.
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jmfcst
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« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2012, 01:06:27 PM »

Again, you seem to imply that he should feel guilty. You seem to imply that Holocaust Survivor X should feel guilty about the bread he took from his dying fellow inmate, that one should feel guilty for whatever little acts of betrayal were necessary for survival. What exactly did Soros do that he should feel guilty about? He carried around a bit of furniture.

And using the Holocaust to beat on political opponents within the confines of the little game of parliamentary politics is beyond the pale. Just so you know.

Soros' ex-wife claimed Soros' parents were anti-Jewish and that Soros' mother did not like her because she was open about being Jewish.  Soros agreed with his ex-wife's account in his biography and even referred to his own mother as a “Jewish Anti-Semite”.

So, not only did he feel "no guilt" in helping the Nazis loot Jewish property, but he and his parents felt guilt about being Jewish.  They didn't like their fellow Jews, nor did they like being Jewish.
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Nathan
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« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2012, 01:09:13 PM »

Soros is a pretty disgusting person, but this is a pretty minor part of how and why, considering it was the [Inks]ing Holocaust and all.
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jmfcst
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« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2012, 01:40:52 PM »

Soros is a pretty disgusting person, but this is a pretty minor part of how and why, considering it was the [Inks]ing Holocaust and all.

yeah, but don't you think it strange that his family didn't like being Jewish, nor did they like Jews who were openly Jewish...and then he feels no guilt in help the Nazis loot Jewish property.
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Redalgo
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« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2012, 02:34:07 PM »
« Edited: May 08, 2012, 02:48:03 PM by Redalgo »

I do not consider anything in the interview controversial. It makes sense some folks might if they were to believe we each have a duty to our perceived national or ethnic group which transcends self-interest, but he was a young teen thrust into an environment quite different than our own. I reckon making himself a martyr at the time based on principle or beating himself up about it later on would not have brought about anything positive for anybody involved. Could he have acted a bit differently at the time without putting himself in grave danger, or at the least in hindsight felt differently about the ordeal? Sure. Still, I'm not going to pass judgment on a bloke on account of how his parents felt about the Jewish people, what he did as a kid when he wasn't truly hurting anybody, or look down on him because he doesn't regret not being more FF'ish as a minor while trying to keep a low profile to avoid persecution by a very nasty, violently-repressive regime.

Without having lived under such conditions myself I am really in no position to speculate with confidence whether I, despite being one who regrets a lot of things, would have done or felt anything differently. Aside from that, however, I know little about Soros and do not have firm opinions about him so please realize this is not any sort of quick rush to an ally's defense. Smile
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Nathan
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« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2012, 02:35:28 PM »

Soros is a pretty disgusting person, but this is a pretty minor part of how and why, considering it was the [Inks]ing Holocaust and all.

yeah, but don't you think it strange that his family didn't like being Jewish, nor did they like Jews who were openly Jewish...and then he feels no guilt in help the Nazis loot Jewish property.

It's certainly not a good thing, but it's not particularly 'strange' considering the history of European Jewry. I'm kind of numb to new revelations of ways in which George Soros is a bad human being, honestly.
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shua
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« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2012, 02:50:16 PM »

I'm not really surprised by anything an adolescent boy feels or doesn't feel under these conditions, but I am surprised the Nazis didn't occupy Budapest until 1944.
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Insula Dei
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« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2012, 02:56:03 PM »
« Edited: May 09, 2012, 10:48:06 AM by Tussen Droom en Daad »

I'm not really surprised by anything an adolescent boy feels or doesn't feel under these conditions, but I am surprised the Nazis didn't occupy Budapest until 1944.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikl%C3%B3s_Horthy

It took the nazis 4 months to do to the Hungarian jewry what had been done to the Polish Jews in 3 years.
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ag
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« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2012, 05:53:35 PM »

Asking a person to feel guilty for surviving is fairly disgusting, in my book - and definitely amoral.
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LastVoter
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« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2012, 08:36:25 PM »

Being a billionaire = being a bad person, and it's a question of how many people's lives you destroyed on your path to becoming one. Even if you were born into money, your social circle will most likely pressure you into keeping the attitude.
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ag
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« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2012, 09:10:52 PM »

Being a billionaire = being a bad person, and it's a question of how many people's lives you destroyed on your path to becoming one. Even if you were born into money, your social circle will most likely pressure you into keeping the attitude.

For the moment I though, it was opebo speaking Smiley)
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LastVoter
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« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2012, 04:34:19 AM »
« Edited: May 10, 2012, 04:40:35 AM by Senator Seatown »

Being a billionaire = being a bad person, and it's a question of how many people's lives you destroyed on your path to becoming one. Even if you were born into money, your social circle will most likely pressure you into keeping the attitude.

For the moment I though, it was opebo speaking Smiley)
I use more colloquial language. The content of the post is the same, just need to throw in a guillotine and you got yourself an opebo post.
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Cory
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« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2012, 11:30:23 AM »

but I am surprised the Nazis didn't occupy Budapest until 1944.

Well the thing is that the Hungarians were allies of Germany under the regime of Admiral Horthy. Until in 1944 Horthy refused to "export" Hungarian Jews to the Germans, so the SS staged a coup and put the ArrowCross Party in charge of Hungary.

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Simfan34
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« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2012, 06:06:54 PM »

but I am surprised the Nazis didn't occupy Budapest until 1944.

Well the thing is that the Hungarians were allies of Germany under the regime of Admiral Horthy. Until in 1944 Horthy refused to "export" Hungarian Jews to the Germans, so the SS staged a coup and put the ArrowCross Party in charge of Hungary.

Yes. Horthy was not the problem and the coup was staged after the Nazis got wind he might be negotiating a surrender.
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