Obama Backs Gay Marriage!
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Phony Moderate
Obamaisdabest
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« Reply #100 on: May 09, 2012, 05:17:30 PM »

David Cameron is laughing at this thread.
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DrScholl
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« Reply #101 on: May 09, 2012, 05:18:46 PM »


See, this is what I mean. We have to make Obama look like the Democrats we defeated back in the early 2000s. Out of touch, liberal/radical, and use it to persuade swing voters who voted for George Bush and Barack Obama.

By this gay marriage backing, and dipping his toe into the Treyvon Martin "tragedy", and hopefully the Supreme Court striking down Obamacare this Summer, we can exploit Obama as the radical, something the McCain campaign was reluctant to do.

Ahhh Lee Atwater...where are you when we need you?

Yeah, you really need another person to teach you how to use slurs without really saying them.
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Franzl
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« Reply #102 on: May 09, 2012, 05:19:26 PM »

Great news! Pleasently surprised Obama took a clear stand.
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« Reply #103 on: May 09, 2012, 05:19:43 PM »

Wonderful Smiley

Romney's 180 turn on this will make for an interesting topic come the debates.
I don't think he's turning anymore; I think he's just become an amorphous blob:

Moderator: Do you support gay marriage?

Obama: Yes.

Romney: Well, um, uh, well, I, um, certainly support the, um, gay and lesbian, um, well...I'd like to pass on this one, Bob.

Moderator: President Obama, why did you change your opinion on gay marriage?

Obama: Well-uh-I-uh-where's my teleprompter?

Romney: Flip-flopping on gay marriage isn't going to help the economy.

did this remind anyone else of the professor?
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Alcon
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« Reply #104 on: May 09, 2012, 05:21:42 PM »

Wonderful Smiley

Romney's 180 turn on this will make for an interesting topic come the debates.
I don't think he's turning anymore; I think he's just become an amorphous blob:

Moderator: Do you support gay marriage?

Obama: Yes.

Romney: Well, um, uh, well, I, um, certainly support the, um, gay and lesbian, um, well...I'd like to pass on this one, Bob.

Moderator: President Obama, why did you change your opinion on gay marriage?

Obama: Well-uh-I-uh-where's my teleprompter?

Romney: Flip-flopping on gay marriage isn't going to help the economy.

did this remind anyone else of the professor?

Opposing gay marriage isn't going to get you girls.  Unless they're 75 years old.
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Thomas D
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« Reply #105 on: May 09, 2012, 05:21:57 PM »

Good. Obama's taking a minority stance on this issue, and this could be something Romney needs to fire up conservatives. Also, this takes away Obama's ability to attack Romney for being a flip-flopper without looking like a complete hypocrite.

Maybe. But I'll still call Romney a Flip-flopper. And I've backed gay marriage since before you were born. Wink
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Politico
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« Reply #106 on: May 09, 2012, 05:23:56 PM »
« Edited: May 09, 2012, 05:31:22 PM by Politico »

Also, this takes away Obama's ability to attack Romney for being a flip-flopper without looking like a complete hypocrite.

On the surface, I agree, and it was the first thing that came to mind. This is obviously the part that mystifies me because I believed one of the essential ingredients in beating Romney was hammering away at him on the "flip-flopper" label. That appears to be off the table now since obviously the "hypocrite" comeback will be quite powerful, you would think.  However, a part of me still plays this in my head:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dddAi8FF3F4

IMHO, the best thing Team Romney can do is continue to stick to talking about the economy. If anybody asks about this, do not attack Obama and find a way to get back onto talking about the economy.
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Politico
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« Reply #107 on: May 09, 2012, 05:28:44 PM »

Wonderful Smiley

Romney's 180 turn on this will make for an interesting topic come the debates.
I don't think he's turning anymore; I think he's just become an amorphous blob:

Moderator: Do you support gay marriage?

Obama: Yes.

Romney: Well, um, uh, well, I, um, certainly support the, um, gay and lesbian, um, well...I'd like to pass on this one, Bob.

Moderator: President Obama, why did you change your opinion on gay marriage?

Obama: Well-uh-I-uh-where's my teleprompter?

Romney: Flip-flopping on gay marriage isn't going to help the economy.

did this remind anyone else of the professor?

Big fan of the professor. Alas, I am not him (so far as I know, anyway Tongue
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Just Passion Through
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« Reply #108 on: May 09, 2012, 05:29:59 PM »

Good. Obama's taking a minority stance on this issue, and this could be something Romney needs to fire up conservatives. Also, this takes away Obama's ability to attack Romney for being a flip-flopper without looking like a complete hypocrite.



Not really.
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Reaganfan
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« Reply #109 on: May 09, 2012, 05:40:06 PM »

Good. Obama's taking a minority stance on this issue, and this could be something Romney needs to fire up conservatives. Also, this takes away Obama's ability to attack Romney for being a flip-flopper without looking like a complete hypocrite.



Not really.

Notice how the opposition grew when President George Walker Bush made it a campaign issue in 2004. We have to do that again. I'm telling ya...if we run from social issues, we lose. If we stand our ground, we win.

Of course it would probably be a 270 electoral vote win and a popular vote loss where Obama loses but still receives millions of more votes than Romney and racial division is increased, but yeah...
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Stranger in a strange land
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« Reply #110 on: May 09, 2012, 05:44:29 PM »

Good. Obama's taking a minority stance on this issue, and this could be something Romney needs to fire up conservatives. Also, this takes away Obama's ability to attack Romney for being a flip-flopper without looking like a complete hypocrite.



Not really.

Notice how the opposition grew when President George Walker Bush made it a campaign issue in 2004. We have to do that again. I'm telling ya...if we run from social issues, we lose. If we stand our ground, we win.

Yes, I agree. Romney needs to stop talking about the economy and make his opposition* to gay marriage the centerpiece of his campaign.

*unless he's running for Senator from Massachusetts
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Politico
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« Reply #111 on: May 09, 2012, 05:45:20 PM »
« Edited: May 09, 2012, 05:48:54 PM by Politico »

Good. Obama's taking a minority stance on this issue, and this could be something Romney needs to fire up conservatives. Also, this takes away Obama's ability to attack Romney for being a flip-flopper without looking like a complete hypocrite.



Not really.

Notice how the opposition grew when President George Walker Bush made it a campaign issue in 2004. We have to do that again. I'm telling ya...if we run from social issues, we lose. If we stand our ground, we win.

Of course it would probably be a 270 electoral vote win and a popular vote loss where Obama loses but still receives millions of more votes than Romney and racial division is increased, but yeah...

Obama owns the economy, and it hurts him. Nobody owns social issues, and the divide is practically 50-50. Why not hammer away at Obama on the economy where he is weak? Obama and Co. want us talking about gay marriage, not the economy. Why give them what they want?

Romney can win on the economy, and social conservatives will win when Romney is POTUS and he is nominating John Roberts-style Supreme Court Justices. There is a strong possibility of losing the election, though, if social issues distract people from the sad state of the economy.
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Marokai Backbeat
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« Reply #112 on: May 09, 2012, 05:47:02 PM »

The brief bump existed primarily because gay marriage had never really been a major issue in American politics ever before in that same way, and 60% of Americans were already on the opposing side to begin with. It was a new issue, and a different time.

The issue has existed in American politics (and popular culture more broadly) since then, and has grown more and more against the conservative position, where now it's safer and safer to say that a national majority is in favor of it, or the country is at least evenly divided. On every issue of minority rights it's always easy to run against it, but there's diminishing returns, and we're no longer at the point where you can scare two thirds of the country against it. The turning point has been reached.
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All Along The Watchtower
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« Reply #113 on: May 09, 2012, 05:48:44 PM »

The brief bump existed primarily because gay marriage had never really been a major issue in American politics ever before in that same way, and 60% of Americans were already on the opposing side to begin with. It was a new issue, and a different time.

The issue has existed in American politics (and popular culture more broadly) since then, and has grown more and more against the conservative position, where now it's safer and safer to say that a national majority is in favor of it, or the country is at least evenly divided. On every issue of minority rights it's always easy to run against it, but there's diminishing returns, and we're no longer at the point where you can scare two thirds of the country against it. The turning point has been reached.

+1 million. IMO, Romney's only hope now is that the economy crashes again (which is a horrible thing for anyone to hope for, come to think of it...)
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Ebowed
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« Reply #114 on: May 09, 2012, 05:50:40 PM »

Obama doesn't need to accuse Romney of being a flip flopper - the narrative is already there, and firmly ingrained in the public consciousness.  Obama has already had 'evolving' positions on a number of issues (FISA, health care mandate), and the label doesn't stick.
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Yank2133
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« Reply #115 on: May 09, 2012, 05:50:59 PM »

Good. Obama's taking a minority stance on this issue, and this could be something Romney needs to fire up conservatives. Also, this takes away Obama's ability to attack Romney for being a flip-flopper without looking like a complete hypocrite.



Not really.

Notice how the opposition grew when President George Walker Bush made it a campaign issue in 2004. We have to do that again. I'm telling ya...if we run from social issues, we lose. If we stand our ground, we win.

Of course it would probably be a 270 electoral vote win and a popular vote loss where Obama loses but still receives millions of more votes than Romney and racial division is increased, but yeah...

If Republicans think social issues in 2012 are going win them elections alas 2004....then they are in for a rude awakening.

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Landslide Lyndon
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« Reply #116 on: May 09, 2012, 05:51:50 PM »

Good. Obama's taking a minority stance on this issue, and this could be something Romney needs to fire up conservatives. Also, this takes away Obama's ability to attack Romney for being a flip-flopper without looking like a complete hypocrite.



Not really.

Υou got a dirty mind.
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All Along The Watchtower
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« Reply #117 on: May 09, 2012, 05:52:35 PM »

Obama doesn't need to accuse Romney of being a flip flopper - the narrative is already there, and firmly ingrained in the public consciousness.  Obama has already had 'evolving' positions on a number of issues (FISA, health care mandate), and the label doesn't stick.

Obama hasn't really "flip flopped" the way Romney has. Romney has done complete 180s on a number of issues, throughout his political career. And it's so obviously for political expedience in his case.
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« Reply #118 on: May 09, 2012, 05:56:17 PM »

Good. Obama's taking a minority stance on this issue, and this could be something Romney needs to fire up conservatives. Also, this takes away Obama's ability to attack Romney for being a flip-flopper without looking like a complete hypocrite.



Not really.

Notice how the opposition grew when President George Walker Bush made it a campaign issue in 2004. We have to do that again. I'm telling ya...if we run from social issues, we lose. If we stand our ground, we win.

Of course it would probably be a 270 electoral vote win and a popular vote loss where Obama loses but still receives millions of more votes than Romney and racial division is increased, but yeah...

But even the chart shows that it didn't increase very significantly.  It's pretty unlikely that the overall trend is going to just reverse at any time.
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Politico
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« Reply #119 on: May 09, 2012, 06:04:02 PM »

Obama doesn't need to accuse Romney of being a flip flopper - the narrative is already there, and firmly ingrained in the public consciousness.  Obama has already had 'evolving' positions on a number of issues (FISA, health care mandate), and the label doesn't stick.

Obama hasn't really "flip flopped" the way Romney has. Romney has done complete 180s on a number of issues, throughout his political career. And it's so obviously for political expedience in his case.

So what you're saying is that it's just a coincidence that Joe Biden and Barack Obama changed their opinion on gay marriage in 2012 at almost the exact same time? Or are you saying that Democrats are hypocrites? Which is it?
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The Mikado
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« Reply #120 on: May 09, 2012, 06:05:44 PM »

Wonderful Smiley

Romney's 180 turn on this will make for an interesting topic come the debates.
I don't think he's turning anymore; I think he's just become an amorphous blob:

Moderator: Do you support gay marriage?

Obama: Yes.

Romney: Well, um, uh, well, I, um, certainly support the, um, gay and lesbian, um, well...I'd like to pass on this one, Bob.

Moderator: President Obama, why did you change your opinion on gay marriage?

Obama: Well-uh-I-uh-where's my teleprompter?

Romney: Flip-flopping on gay marriage isn't going to help the economy.

Did Obama go to pieces like that, ever, during the debates with McCain?
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Politico
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« Reply #121 on: May 09, 2012, 06:08:33 PM »
« Edited: May 09, 2012, 06:14:09 PM by Politico »

Good. Obama's taking a minority stance on this issue, and this could be something Romney needs to fire up conservatives. Also, this takes away Obama's ability to attack Romney for being a flip-flopper without looking like a complete hypocrite.



Not really.

Notice how the opposition grew when President George Walker Bush made it a campaign issue in 2004. We have to do that again. I'm telling ya...if we run from social issues, we lose. If we stand our ground, we win.

Of course it would probably be a 270 electoral vote win and a popular vote loss where Obama loses but still receives millions of more votes than Romney and racial division is increased, but yeah...

But even the chart shows that it didn't increase very significantly.  It's pretty unlikely that the overall trend is going to just reverse at any time.

I would not be so sure about that. I remember AIDS hysteria and what it did to the gay rights movement. Just like syphilis was trumped by herpes and herpes was trumped by HIV/AIDS, something else will eventually come around to trump HIV/AIDS. Certain lifestyles are not sustainable. And this is coming from somebody who had a dear cousin who secretly lived that type of lifestyle in the '70s and '80s, and paid the ultimate price. It's like a cycle or something. Promoting gay marriage, monogamy among homosexuals, is a good way to help fight those type of lifestyle choices, of course. I support gay marriage. I disagree with Governor Romney on the issue. But I am not convinced the trend with regards to gay marriage is going to continue. History tends to repeat itself, and I remember the backlash against gays at the onset of HIV/AIDS. Due to today's 24/7 media, the backlash will be even worse if another mysterious killer STD comes onto the gay scene.
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Negusa Nagast 🚀
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« Reply #122 on: May 09, 2012, 06:08:46 PM »

Wonderful Smiley

Romney's 180 turn on this will make for an interesting topic come the debates.
I don't think he's turning anymore; I think he's just become an amorphous blob:

Moderator: Do you support gay marriage?

Obama: Yes.

Romney: Well, um, uh, well, I, um, certainly support the, um, gay and lesbian, um, well...I'd like to pass on this one, Bob.

Moderator: President Obama, why did you change your opinion on gay marriage?

Obama: Well-uh-I-uh-where's my teleprompter?

Romney: Flip-flopping on gay marriage isn't going to help the economy.

Did Obama go to pieces like that, ever, during the debates with McCain?

Of course not, but our best USAtlas pundit, politico, early predictor of the Gore, McCain, Not-Clinton, Obama 400+ EV win in 2008, surely can tell the future!
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Politico
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« Reply #123 on: May 09, 2012, 06:16:08 PM »

Wonderful Smiley

Romney's 180 turn on this will make for an interesting topic come the debates.
I don't think he's turning anymore; I think he's just become an amorphous blob:

Moderator: Do you support gay marriage?

Obama: Yes.

Romney: Well, um, uh, well, I, um, certainly support the, um, gay and lesbian, um, well...I'd like to pass on this one, Bob.

Moderator: President Obama, why did you change your opinion on gay marriage?

Obama: Well-uh-I-uh-where's my teleprompter?

Romney: Flip-flopping on gay marriage isn't going to help the economy.

Did Obama go to pieces like that, ever, during the debates with McCain?

I was being hyperbolic. Obviously Obama is a great speaker, but just a decent debater (I actually feel like Kerry is a better debater). He needs his teleprompter to really shine, but he is OK without it.
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Sbane
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« Reply #124 on: May 09, 2012, 06:23:58 PM »

Looks like Obama alienated about half the hispanic votes in key swing states.  Oh, and I thought Romney was a flip flopper on issues, Obama supporters can be hypocrites at times.

Thanks for bringing this up. Yes, the Republicans could have exploited this issue to get more support with working class Hispanics but then you guys f'ed up with the AZ immigration law and similar laws that have been passed by Republicans across the country. Gays marrying will be less of an issue for Hispanic than one of the major parties race baiting using them to win votes. Haha, it will be fun watching you guys get punished for your bigotry.
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