SENATE BILL: WHITE HOUSE BUDGET PROPOSAL (On the President's Desk)

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

It's worth noting that this budget includes the taxes created to fund most of the programs enacted in the past few months, but not the spending for those programs.  I assume they are being delayed until some future date?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

How were the health care numbers distributed across regions?

Those were the numbers from the first budget update I did, and were based mostly on population. 
I'm not sure why the figures from the more recent budget update weren't used here.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Object

Explanation?

Wormyguy hates the brown man(and the poor man in general).

oh boy, looks like confusion about what's being debated really is a problem . . .

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Object

Explanation?

Wormyguy hates the brown man(and the poor man in general).

oh boy, looks like confusion about what's being debated really is a problem . . .

There is no confusion, most future veterans will come from poor & minority backgrounds. I am sure wormy perfectly knows this, while this went over your head.

Words fail me.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

With all this talk of new spending, I'm surprised no one's interested in discussing the spending that's been cut.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

64% of that increase in net spending is the result of the current amendment at vote, 49:19. 

Yes, the amendment I oppose.

I'd like to see the changes from the last budget.

Also, Shua, that reminds me that I am going to need your help with the regional budget when you get a chance.

I have discussed some of the major changes in my penultimate post in the GM update thread.  I think it'd be great if the President can provide more details here, though I may try to as well.

I'll be glad to help with your regional budget, but I'll have more of a chance after this budget bill is squared away.

This will cost us a considerable amount of tax revenue (about $150 B by my quick calculations) since so many more people pay the lower brackets.

It will cost some, but I don't think anywhere near that much. I can do the calculations once I finish the ones I'm doing for Ben.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

$44.5 B actually. ( of course, those numbers are just estimates)

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

How high can taxes be raised on the wealthy before the law of diminishing returns kicks in?

Up to 100%, since Shua isn't factoring in Laffer Curve effects (which is silly, IMO).

I actually am a little with this, though I'm trying to err on the side of underestimating them. I'm estimating those corporate revenue increases at about 3/4 what would be expected with a straight 1:1 relationship. With those income tax changes it's very hard to guess, especially since it's a slight net tax decrease averaged across rates. Of course, corporate tax rates would influence income tax revenue and vice versa but I'm not going to try to deal with that as long as people as still debating rates for each. Also, this is revenue in the short term; whether tax revenues fall in the long term from a tax increase is not something I'm trying to estimate here.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I've been doing some research and working on improving my revenue models.
I'm thinking now those revenue figures I gave Ben should be considered optimistic

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Could he revise the amendment based on a more concrete analysis? How long would it take to get those numbers and revise the text?

I'm not sure what you're asking here. If you'd like I can provide a revised estimate.
I'm estimating it now as being still revenue positive compared to the current structure, but more like $10 billion rather than $50 billion.

Also, we can reduce the healthcare expenditures down to about $950 billion now that the new bill is passed.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Here are my new calculations for Ben's amendment. net is $14.3 B.

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[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Would this be a workable amendment?

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If you have a flat tax, changes in rates over time are not too hard to figure, but with a graduated tax, it can get very complicated  .  I tend to think it makes sense to reduce it as much as you think you can now, and then let future governments do with it what they will - since more likely than not they will change anyway.

What is the reason behind waiting to reduce the rates anyway?  That's the opposite of what I would expect if you are going for a countercyclical policy.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

here are the GM's projected costs for ANH if someone is interested in submitting it as an amendment:

Atlasian National Healthcare ($953.3 billion)
$239.5 billion ... IDS Community Health Partnership
$206.0 billion ... ME Community Health Partnership
$113.5 billion ... MW Community Health Partnership
$191.0 billion ... NE Community Health Partnership
$180.5 billion ... PA Community Health Partnership
$22.8 billion ..... Central Administration Costs

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

my calculation is $443 billion for the new bracket.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

What does the tax code look like, as of now?

you mean the current policy, or the bill?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Looks like we don't have a capital gains tax or an estate tax. I would be willing to lower income tax rates further and enact these new taxes.

Sorry - we do have an estate tax but I somehow forgot to include it.  With the Estate Tax Reform Act and the Public Housing Act, there should be added $8.5 billion for Public Housing Act spending and $47.9 billion for estate tax revenue.

As for capital gains taxes, they are included in the income tax figures, but with a deduction for the lower rate which I've been assuming is at the same rate as RL.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Can't we cut something from somewhere other than military spending? Try cutting domestic for once.

I deem these cuts perfectly fine without damaging or operations.  I hope I have the credibility to propose these cuts.

If you are going to cut the military budget, why not take it from the Afghanistan operations, since we only have a training force there now that will be gone in two months?

I think this budget process was a bit of a mess from the start since the changes from the current budget and current laws were never specified in the introduced text.  There are several programs passed in the past few sessions, for instance, that are completely unfunded by this budget and there has been no discussion about this.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Thanks, Scott.

Damn it, I should have made that policy sooner.


We need to update the subtotals, too. Seatown never had his rates scored by Shua.

I'll score rates if I'm asked to. No point in me doing it if people aren't interested.
Which version of the rates does he want to propose?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

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[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

It's worth noting that this budget includes the taxes created to fund most of the programs enacted in the past few months, but not the spending for those programs.  I assume they are being delayed until some future date?

If you are going to cut the military budget, why not take it from the Afghanistan operations, since we only have a training force there now that will be gone in two months?

*sigh* why do i even bother?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

It's worth noting that this budget includes the taxes created to fund most of the programs enacted in the past few months, but not the spending for those programs.  I assume they are being delayed until some future date?

If you are going to cut the military budget, why not take it from the Afghanistan operations, since we only have a training force there now that will be gone in two months?

*sigh* why do i even bother?

In a large bill like this, you got to push things aggressively in order for them to not end up 10 pages back and forgotten. I have long suggested, that the best way to get something specific done is to contact a specific Senator and get him to embrace your issues and focus on them.

I have mentioned these issues several times, both here and in the update thread.  I'm not trying to get someone to embrace my issues (as GM I'm trying not to push an agenda on this bill), just get some basic input as to how I am to interpret this bill if it passes. I was just assuming the bill's authors and sponsors can read this thread and answer questions from the GM, but I guess you are right.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Shua I might have to veto this and redraft it so let's talk about what programs are missing.

The spending portions of the Comprehensive Protection of Nuclear Power Act, the Smart Grid Electrical Distribution Act, the Oil Spill Protection Act, the Competition in Electricity Utilities Act;
and the spending and tax portions of the Consolidated Marijuana Regulation Act.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Also, there is this that I realized due to a comment made by sbane, that should be included if you want to retain the current estate tax and the programs funded by it.

Looks like we don't have a capital gains tax or an estate tax. I would be willing to lower income tax rates further and enact these new taxes.

Sorry - we do have an estate tax but I somehow forgot to include it.  With the Estate Tax Reform Act and the Public Housing Act, there should be added $8.5 billion for Public Housing Act spending and $47.9 billion for estate tax revenue.

As for capital gains taxes, they are included in the income tax figures, but with a deduction for the lower rate which I've been assuming is at the same rate as RL.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Shua, could you give the breakdown for the revenue collected at each marginal estate tax rate below?

Is it necessary to figure that out, since I gave you the total?  In a few days I'll be gone for a week and until then I have some time to work on this but it is limited.