Italy 2013: The official thread

[SPQR]

Exactly one month to go. An eight point lead and Silvio hasn't ramped up campaigning yet. Just saying.

Don't get wet,ex-Silvio hater.

[Keystone Phil]

Remember that anger I mentioned earlier...?

Anyway, I don't know what makes you guys think I secretly love Berlusconi. I already mentioned my loyalties and do you really think me, of all people, would shy away from supporting and defending a controversial figure? I've stood by "worse."

I think some have an overinflated feeling about themselves and want to think they discovered something.

[Niemeyerite]

I viciously hate Silvio Berlusconi.

[Zanas]

SWG has the following today...

Italia. Bene Comune - 34.1%
Center-right - 26.6%
M5S - 17.2%
Con Monti per l'Italia - 12.8%
Rivoluzione Civile - 5.4%
Others - 3.9%

Are they a serious pollster?
In that case what made Grillo jump back up to those high levels after several polls showed them falling down to about 10-12%?

I think it's an outlier. He's been steady at around 12 give or take 2 for at least three weeks now.

[SPQR]

Supporting Fratelli d'Italia = supporting Silvio,btw.

[Keystone Phil]

Supporting Fratelli d'Italia = supporting Silvio,btw.

Ok.

[Famous Mortimer]

Yes, I've been "rambling" about his comeback because 95% of the people here viciously hate him and you have one person that actually refuses to recognize that he's had any type of comeback. So, yeah, by comparison I guess I do seem like a fan.

I'm not getting into a flame war about my Sarkozy prediction but I must say your reasoning there makes absolutely no sense. Saying he'd end up with 48% of the vote while polling in the low 40s would have been fine but predicting he'd get just 2.1% more than that is plain stupid? Uh. Ok. It would have been indefensible if he ended up being swamped but he wasn't so I don't understand why guessing closer to the actual result was stupid. It just seemed stupid at a certain time.

Let's just drop that. Feel free to start a new thread to battle that one out. I think you've done enough damage here.

Sorry, but I'm not going to let this stand.

First of all, who the hell is the guy who "actually refuses to recognize that he's had any type of comeback"? I hope you're not talking about me, because that would mean you really didn't pay attention.

Also, the fact you seem to think "viciously" hating Berlusconi is something else than the soundest and most natural possible attitude is already pretty bad. This guy is a vile abomination of mankind. That's a fact. There's no need to be a moderate hero about this.

And yes, of course it does make some sense to imagine the gap would narrow a bit. Elections do tend to narrow more often than not (though of course it could have narrowed much less than it actually did). But for a candidate as deeply unpopular as Sarkozy to actually pull a win, it would take much more. Yeah, there's a pretty big difference between 48% and 50%. But even this doesn't really matter. You said "Sarkozy will win". You didn't even say he might win or there's a fair chance. You made a ridiculously bold prediction that turned out decidedly wrong: you lost. You can't use the fact he came close as an excuse.

I want no part of your crazy internet drama but the term "moderate hero" is pretty awesome and will be using it a lot from now on. Thank you.

[Kitteh]

I want no part of your crazy internet drama but the term "moderate hero" is pretty awesome and will be using it a lot from now on. Thank you.

It's an Atlas Forum coined term. I know, it is really awesome.

[SPQR]

"Mussolini was a great leader except for the laws against Jews".

Berlusconi,today.

[Keystone Phil]

You know what I talk about more than "the comeback?" The fact that Silvio likes to say really stupid things and dig himself ridiculous holes.

[ERvND]

So is this statement seen as a big scandal in Italy? I presumed that open reverence to Mussolini is not really uncommon within certain parts of society.

Moreover, Berlusconi has to pander to his neo-fascist supporters. They are part of his PdL, after all.

[Keystone Phil]

I guess I have to put a disclaimer on these posts these days so here it goes: the following is not a defense of the beliefs of Silvio Berlusconi...

While this comment will obviously do more harm than good, I wonder just how much harm it will do in Italy. As has been discussed, there's an element in the country (and not just restricted to outwardly fascist people) that respects the "good" Mussolini did. These people seem to rear their heads in difficult times.

[RogueBeaver]

He also defended Mussolini's decision to ally with Hitler in those same remarks. Note the venue.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/berlusconi-defends-mussolini-backing-hitler

[SPQR]

He's obviously trying to attract more right-leaning voters,but they'd probably vote for him anyway since The Right and Fratelli d'Italia are already in the coalition.

At the same time,he's pissing off everyone else who is not a Berlusconi hack.
So,pretty much,losing Jews,gaining neo-fascists. Won't lose many votes,he just lost another bit of dignity and integrity (if he had any left).

[Zanas]

he just lost another bit of dignity and integrity (if he had any left).

Hint : he hadn't.

[Peter the Lefty]

Dear God.  Never thought he'd sink THIS low.  Though given who is it, I should have.

[Zanas]

Dear God.  Never thought he'd sink THIS low.  Though given who is it, I should have.

Hint : he already had sunk this low. And lower. For a long time now.

[Antonio the Sixth]

To be absolutely fair with Berlusconi (never thought I'd say these words!) he did not exactly say that. He said racial laws was Mussolini's greatest fault but that he also did good things. Which, of course, remains horrifying, especially on Memorial Day.

Honestly, I have absolutely no idea what political impact it will have.

[Zanas]

To be absolutely fair with Berlusconi (never thought I'd say these words!) he did not exactly say that. He said racial laws was Mussolini's greatest fault but that he also did good things. Which, of course, remains horrifying, especially on Memorial Day.

Honestly, I have absolutely no idea what political impact it will have.

Hint : none whatsoever.

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

Isn't this gonna hurt Berlusconi on Sicily? Mussolini didn't have good relations with the Cosa Nostra after all.

 

[Iannis]

So is this statement seen as a big scandal in Italy? I presumed that open reverence to Mussolini is not really uncommon within certain parts of society.

Moreover, Berlusconi has to pander to his neo-fascist supporters. They are part of his PdL, after all.

He repeated some clichè quite popular in Italy, the fact that Mussolini did something right, many people used to say that "trains were in time", "you could seep with open doores", "Mussolini was honest and not corrupted" etc etc. Basically Berlusconi doesn't need any more to convince moderates and centrist but to recover some votes amog his former electorate (which was big), the less moderate I'd say and these statements scandalize only who already has no intention to vote him.

[Keystone Phil]

M5S might really be rebounding. Yesterday's Tecnè poll...

Italia. Bene Comune - 34.5%
Center-right - 27.7%
M5S - 14.7%
Con Monti per l'Italia - 14.2%
Rivoluzione Civile - 4.8%
Others - 4.1%

[Antonio the Sixth]

Monti might end up 4th... LOL

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Particularly amusing as he did actually have a chance to make some sort of breakthrough. Not much of one, but it was there. lol.

[SPQR]

Particularly amusing as he did actually have a chance to make some sort of breakthrough. Not much of one, but it was there. lol.

He never had any chance to compete for the first place.
His only chance is a hung Senate,and an alliance with PD.