The end of Sweden's socialist experiment

[tpfkaw]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-06/booming-sweden-s-free-market-solution.html

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[politicus]

Well known stuff for us Scandinavians. What aspects of it would you like to discuss?

[Redalgo]

At least from what I have read in the past, Branting was a pretty pragmatic man and saw socialism more as a means than an end. The Swedes possessed an admirable work ethic, neo-corporatist institutions fostered intergroup collaboration without suppressing competition or innovation, taxes were not nearly so burdensome as in subsequent decades, the private sector utterly dwarfed its public counterpart, and redistribution focused on fairly allotting the gains from future production. Long-term considerations for raising standards of living appeared to rely on growth, exports, hard work by the People, and settling for incremental gains in benefits if/when they could be afforded.

When the social democrats broke with this trend and became more idealistic starting in the 1960s, the drift toward nationalization, an expanding bureaucracy, astronomical tax rates, and the very high levels of individualism that came along with public policies that dismantled some traditional institutions set Sweden on a thornier path… and to make matters worse I’ve heard it said more than once before that the labor movement there (as in most of the West, generally) has failed to put forth any new, bold visions for the future - or particularly innovative strategies for pursuing future progress - since the late 20th century.

Though I am very much enamored by both the Nordic Model and the concept of a social democratic welfare regime, and would be loathe to witness a Swedish transformation to liberal democracy, it seems clear to me that traditional approaches to socialism (if not the entire agenda of the secular Left, in a more broadly cultural than merely economic context) suffer from some serious flaws. I’m interested in reading more about the Swedish example. There are good lessons to be gleaned from it concerning socialism, capitalism, corporatism, and the constant evolution of cultural values.

Not at all being an expert on this subject, however, I would gladly accept any corrections or insights people - especially those living in the Scandinavian region - may have on such stuff.

[Simfan34]

This is very exciting and cheerful stuff. I've known this for a while, but I never knew the extent of the reforms was this widespread.  There remains a Nordic Model of a strong state and social democracy, but Sweden has been tempering it into something more sustainable and growth-inducing.

[freefair]

Fantastic. Its already become a trope of the UK Conservative party to point out, when making free market reforms opposed byLabour, that they are supposed to worship the Nordic Model, and then point out that in fact Scandanavian nations have made these libertarian reforms already.

[ingemann]

I'm with politicus, I fail to see the incredible with this? Did people really think we were like the parody, which is part of modern Anglo-Saxon concurs (both of the right and left)? Of course this article the interesting part of the article is this.

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So much for the end of Sweden's socialist experiment, in fact it's only the end, in the way that the right has embraced it and it hasn't been a experiment at all in half a century.

Of course at the same time the article also fail on some other points. One is the crash of 1993, ikt wasn't caused by Social Democratic policies, but by the policies of the right-wing government which had been in charge in 3 years at  that point. Carl Bildt had embraced policies, which had resulted in the Swedish krona being overvalued, it allowed Soros to crash the krona, and the next 12 years the Social Democrats had to clean up after him, at the same time remove any ability of that government to make reforms. Not the great success of the right, but more the deep irresponsibility of the right forcing the left to waste year on cleaning up. In fact before the Bildt government the Swedish economy wasn't bad, but it did saw explosive growth until the crash.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I note that there's a proper response up here now, so I'll just stick with the sneering.

Is there any point to this thread other than amusingly out of date* - and for the most part not entirely well-founded but lets ignore that - gloating?

*Perhaps there will soon also be a thread crowing about the end of so-called 'socialist experiments' in other randomly selected countries (New Zealand or Israel would be obvious candidates), and maybe one gloating about Thatcherism. Or perhaps delight at the defeat of the CCF government in Saskatchewan.

[freefair]

Sweden now cannot be used as a successful example of a 21st century left wing democracy?

[ingemann]

I note that there's a proper response up here now, so I'll just stick with the sneering.

Is there any point to this thread other than amusingly out of date* - and for the most part not entirely well-founded but lets ignore that - gloating?

*Perhaps there will soon also be a thread crowing about the end of so-called 'socialist experiments' in other randomly selected countries (New Zealand or Israel would be obvious candidates), and maybe one gloating about Thatcherism. Or perhaps delight at the defeat of the CCF government in Saskatchewan.

Funny thing about the article, I could rewrite it argue, this is proff of the success of the Scandinavian model and the superiority of Scandianvian social democrats over the American (and British) right.

It remind me of how France tried to embrace the flexicurity model, and complete ignored that it's the -icurity, which make the entire model possible. In fact it's that people have always misunderstood, Scandinavia isn't far left, it have just turned the focus around. it try to deliver wide social justice, while having a open pro-business climate. As such with the state taking care of the sick, unemployed and old, the businesses do not need to focus on these things, meaning they can focus on what they are good at, instead of wasting resources on insurance, having to pay their fired employees for month or even years and don't need to focus on the pensions. At the same time the traditional strong unions, has ensured that these benefits are adapted to individual sector and business and that strikes are rare.  

[ingemann]

Sweden now cannot be used as a successful example of a 21st century left wing democracy?

Of course it can, but it's left-wing in the same way that UK or USA is right-wing.

[Gustaf]

I'm with politicus, I fail to see the incredible with this? Did people really think we were like the parody, which is part of modern Anglo-Saxon concurs (both of the right and left)? Of course this article the interesting part of the article is this.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

So much for the end of Sweden's socialist experiment, in fact it's only the end, in the way that the right has embraced it and it hasn't been a experiment at all in half a century.

Of course at the same time the article also fail on some other points. One is the crash of 1993, ikt wasn't caused by Social Democratic policies, but by the policies of the right-wing government which had been in charge in 3 years at  that point. Carl Bildt had embraced policies, which had resulted in the Swedish krona being overvalued, it allowed Soros to crash the krona, and the next 12 years the Social Democrats had to clean up after him, at the same time remove any ability of that government to make reforms. Not the great success of the right, but more the deep irresponsibility of the right forcing the left to waste year on cleaning up. In fact before the Bildt government the Swedish economy wasn't bad, but it did saw explosive growth until the crash.

Sorry, that last paragraph is not true. I'm not sure if you're making it up or actually believe in it.

The explosive growth was due to the massive currency devaluation and the subsequent deregulation of credit markets instituted by the Social Democrats in the 80s. That was also what led to the crash.

That is why the Social Democratic government tried to ban strikes and freeze wage increases in early 1990, failed and had to resign. The finance minister then resigned in protest against the irresponsible policies. In fact, this is largely why the opposition, led by Bildt, won power in 1991 - the economy was already collapsing. It would be more accurate to say that the right had to clean up the mess they inherited from the left (although that would still not be all that accurate).

Anyway, this is not new to most people on here, but it still isn't widely known to the public, I'd say.

[freefair]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18432841

I would like Britain to be as liberal as Sweden.

[Gustaf]

Nice to see Trägårdh brought in for interview. Him and this other guy wrote a book on that theory which is quite interesting.

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

In fact, this is largely why the opposition, led by Bildt, won power in 1991 - the economy was already collapsing. It would be more accurate to say that the right had to clean up the mess they inherited from the left (although that would still not be all that accurate).

Actually the situation back then is quite similar to Greece. One party ruins the economy, S/ND, but the crash doesn't happen until the next goverment (Bildt/Papandreo) who gets the blame, and their measures to try to restore the economy gets them even more unpopular.

 

[Linus Van Pelt]

In the year March 1992-March 1993 the krona declined over 23% against the Deutschmark, helping Swedish exports to get more competitive again - oh wait...

[Gustaf]

In the year March 1992-March 1993 the krona declined over 23% against the Deutschmark, helping Swedish exports to get more competitive again - oh wait...

Yep. Too bad Greece can't do that.