MA: Amendment to the Mideast Sex Crime Statute (Tabled)
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 29, 2024, 04:34:06 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  Atlas Fantasy Elections
  Atlas Fantasy Government
  Regional Governments (Moderators: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee, Lumine)
  MA: Amendment to the Mideast Sex Crime Statute (Tabled)
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2]
Author Topic: MA: Amendment to the Mideast Sex Crime Statute (Tabled)  (Read 3580 times)
tmthforu94
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 22,401
United States


Political Matrix
E: -0.26, S: -4.52

P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2012, 11:34:16 PM »

As one of the only teenagers who actually lives in the Mideast, I have serious concerns with these ages. Lots of high school relationships would be in jeopardy because of this. I'd be interested in hearing the argument behind these specific numbers, or if they were just chosen at random.

Also, are we really sending minors to prison over this?
Logged
ZuWo
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,873
Switzerland


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2012, 04:02:57 AM »

As one of the only teenagers who actually lives in the Mideast, I have serious concerns with these ages. Lots of high school relationships would be in jeopardy because of this. I'd be interested in hearing the argument behind these specific numbers, or if they were just chosen at random.

Also, are we really sending minors to prison over this?

Ask badger and the members of the Assembly back in 2005 why they came up with some of these numbers - I have used these old ages as a starting point for this amendment and tightened them in cases where very young children are involved and where the age gap is very large.
Indeed, defining age restrictions in legal matters is always arbitrary. For example, why should teenagers be allowed to drive cars at the age of 16? Why not at the age of 15, 17 or 18? Why should they have the right to buy certain kinds of alcohol only when they are 21, and not when they are 19, 20 or 22? It is your right to be unhappy with some of these ages but you won't be able to define these ages in a way that is less arbitrary.

Also, please have a close look at the bill. As Section 3 and my previous post make clear, the punishments are not carved in stone. If a case is brought to court (and this is rare) a judge can acquit an individual any time because it is solely the maximum penalties that are defined. Our judges will punish an individual only if they consider a certain sexual encounter a case of sexual abuse. If the context of the sexual encounter is unproblematic because it is evident that the younger person was aware of what he/she was doing there is no reason to convinct the older person. This bill gives our judges a useful tool to punish those who deserve it but at the same time does not send minors to prison who have not committed a real crime.
Logged
HappyWarrior
hannibal
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,058


Political Matrix
E: -3.87, S: -0.35

WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2012, 07:55:33 PM »

Sadly with all the concerns raised in debate I think I may have to oppose this bill sadly unless serious changes can be made to the bill.
Logged
ZuWo
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,873
Switzerland


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2012, 06:34:15 AM »

Sadly with all the concerns raised in debate I think I may have to oppose this bill sadly unless serious changes can be made to the bill.

I am looking forward to seeing concrete proposals of the things that need to be altered. The thing is, if we flat out reject my amendment we will return to the status quo, which also contains clauses like these:

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.


https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Sex_Crime_Statute
Logged
Queen Mum Inks.LWC
Inks.LWC
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 35,028
United States


Political Matrix
E: 4.65, S: -2.78

P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2012, 06:54:55 PM »

I'm sorry - can this get broken down to show what exactly the changes are from the current statute?  I'm having a hard time following htis.
Logged
ZuWo
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,873
Switzerland


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #30 on: June 28, 2012, 08:00:17 AM »

With pleasure, Assemblyman Inks.

Here's the current statute:

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
Logged
ZuWo
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,873
Switzerland


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #31 on: June 28, 2012, 08:07:14 AM »

And here's what my amendment (including the most recent changes which yet have to be voted on) would try to do:

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
Logged
Queen Mum Inks.LWC
Inks.LWC
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 35,028
United States


Political Matrix
E: 4.65, S: -2.78

P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #32 on: June 28, 2012, 05:23:30 PM »

I don't see any reason to change it.  If anything, maybe loosen clauses 7-9.
Logged
HappyWarrior
hannibal
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,058


Political Matrix
E: -3.87, S: -0.35

WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2012, 05:43:19 PM »

I don't see any reason to change it.  If anything, maybe loosen clauses 7-9.

^^^^^^^ This
Logged
ZuWo
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,873
Switzerland


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #34 on: June 29, 2012, 03:05:36 AM »

I don't see any reason to change it.  If anything, maybe loosen clauses 7-9.

I am ready to accept a loosening of clauses 7-9 if we at least tighten clause 2 so that it reads
Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

We are dealing with sexual conducts that involve children who are younger than 12 so I think such an amendment can be considered appropriate.
If we accept this amendment Sections 3 and 5 will become superfluous. Thus this amendment has the advantage of simplying the current Statute:

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
Logged
ZuWo
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,873
Switzerland


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #35 on: July 01, 2012, 06:48:28 AM »
« Edited: July 01, 2012, 07:21:31 AM by Mideast Governor ZuWo »

This bill has become such a mess that I would like to withdraw it. However, that's not the end of debate. I will work on a better version of this amendment, which would tighten section 2, clause 2 and loosen section 2, clauses 7 to 9 of the original statute.
Logged
Queen Mum Inks.LWC
Inks.LWC
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 35,028
United States


Political Matrix
E: 4.65, S: -2.78

P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #36 on: July 01, 2012, 10:30:51 AM »

This bill has become such a mess that I would like to withdraw it. However, that's not the end of debate. I will work on a better version of this amendment, which would tighten section 2, clause 2 and loosen section 2, clauses 7 to 9 of the original statute.

Next time, I'd suggest using the original statute's text, striking through what you want deleted and bolding what you want added.  That would make it MUCH easier to see what you're actually changing.
Logged
Queen Mum Inks.LWC
Inks.LWC
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 35,028
United States


Political Matrix
E: 4.65, S: -2.78

P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #37 on: July 05, 2012, 07:12:06 PM »

Can we get this labeled tabled?
Logged
HappyWarrior
hannibal
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,058


Political Matrix
E: -3.87, S: -0.35

WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #38 on: July 06, 2012, 12:50:53 AM »


Ah you are correct there sir.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.033 seconds with 13 queries.