Assange seeks asylum in Ecuador

[opebo]

It is easy for a certain type of pack mentality to jeer at the desperate and rather hopeless moves of a man about to be crushed by the State, but I suppose living at the Ecuadorian embassy would be more comfortable than being tortured in Guantanamo or chemically castrated for not wearing a condom by the misandrist Swedes.

[opebo]

moderate heroism (translated: vapid liberal moralism) takes the thread

Oh say, I didn't see this, well done and well said.  Really your point is more apropos and certainly pithier than mine above, but I figured since everyone else was just saying 'rapist' and 'jerk' and 'scumbag' and 'leftist idiots', I thought I might express myself a little.

[opebo]

moderate heroism (translated: vapid liberal moralism) takes the thread

Oh say, I didn't see this, well done and well said.  Really your point is more apropos and certainly pithier than mine above, but I figured since everyone else was just saying 'rapist' and 'jerk' and 'scumbag' and 'leftist idiots', I thought I might express myself a little.

You and Tweed really take these things way too seriously.

Not so much, Gustaf - the point is in order to understand the main character of the story, one has to realize that he, quite naturally, does take it seriously.  No doubt you would as well were you in his shoes.

[opebo]

I understand the main character, I just find him unsympathetic. Perhaps interesting, but not sympathetic. Disappointingly and unevenly written, too.

Really?  He's right up there with Bertie Wooster in my ranking.

If I started engaging in non-consensual sex I would take it seriously, yes.

If you have perpetrated heterosexual liaison in our patriarchal society, Gustaf, you have 'engaged in non-consensual sex'.  (according to some feminist analysis)

[opebo]

Did I just see Opebo singing the glories of feminism?

No.

[opebo]

Here's a nice video I happened to be watching, which gives an excellent view of what a fine man is Assange.

[opebo]

Here's a nice video I happened to be watching, which gives an excellent view of what a fine man is Assange.

I saw the title of the video and who else was in it and closed the tab.

Why? Afraid to face any questioning of your indoctrination?

[opebo]

Assange to speak from Ecuador embassy in row over his fate

Apparently he will speak from a little balcony so as not to be batoned by the bobbies.

[opebo]

Assange's speech from the Balcony!

[opebo]

Assange to speak from Ecuador embassy in row over his fate

Apparently he will speak from a little balcony so as not to be batoned by the bobbies.

It's no surprise he'll be speaking from a balcony rather than inside the embassy.  He likely wants to be heckled as it plays into his martyred-messiah complex.

Dude, you're just being silly.  Have you no sense of theater?  It is an amazing bit of luck for someone like him to have any platform to speak at all, and no doubt he'll disappear soon.  Of course he's going to make the most of it.  'Assange from the balcony' will be remembered long after nobody knows where he is.

[opebo]

Nah, we'll know where he will be.  The Ecuadorian embassy.  He ain't leaving there for years to come now.

Really?  I don't know the history of such cases, but is there a history of people managing to stay in such places for years on end?  The embassy there is I hear rather small, and after all the US may overthrow Rafael Correa at any moment.  I doubt he's prospects there are truly long-term.

[opebo]

The most extreme case I know of was a Catholic priest in Hungary who spoke out against communism during the Cold War, and then ended up hiding out in the US embassy for 15 years(!).

Perfect example, and thank you for educating me.

At the very least, and no matter what people think about the Wikileaks project, Assange in general or how this whole farrago has been handled, can people please desist from trivialising rape in this manner? I realise that this forum (being, as it is, part of the internet) has an extremely strong misogynistic undercurrent and that, as such, this post is a waste of time, but all the same it isn't actually hard to avoid being an absolute [inks] on the subject.

Of course it isn't my place to do so (anymore), but can we agree that what is for you 'trivializing' an issue may be simply a matter of real political disagreement for others?  After all we could throw out the word 'trivializing' about any issue with which we disagreed with others in order to dismiss their position as inappropriate or disallowed.

[opebo]

Cardinal Mindszenty was an interesting guy. Definitely a more worthy cause than that of our present coward

I consider it just the opposite - Mindszenty was a very dubious character.  However, just because I dislike everything he stands for doesn't mean I can't admit that he is a heroic chap.  Why can't you admit the same here.

[opebo]

Well the real point is that everyone else is inhibited from saying such things - thus the two-tier speech here.  You have odd conversations where one person is telling everyone they disgust him or that they're an idiot, and on the other side poor b******s who can't say a darn thing they think (such as moi).

[opebo]

Also of note, the latest YouGov poll included a couple of Assange related questions. Perhaps unsurprisingly, a large gender gap can be observed.

They can't see the bigger issue, apparently.  Or perhaps they just don't like him because he is weedy-looking

I agree with everybody except Tweed and Opebo.

Moderate hero.

[opebo]

Or perhaps to them rape charges are a bigger issue than the putative wellbeing of one particular individual who has delusions of grandeur about his having pissed off the US government.

Yeah, as I said, different priorities.  They, like you, can't see the bigger picture.

[opebo]

...we've got people supporting a sleazy sex addict's attempts to flee Swedish justice

Where do you get that sex addict stuff?  You mean because he apparently had sex?

I think that's unfair to opebo.  He would probably support Assange's attempts to flee rape charges even if he didn't like his political beliefs.

You are precisely correct Mr. Mordant and I both compliment and thank you for it.

[opebo]

Where do you get that sex addict stuff?  You mean because he apparently had sex?

Repeatedly, and with various people, and to the extent that he ended up in this situation, yes. Regardless of whether or not this constitutes an addiction, it's incredibly sleazy.

Seriously?  You think that having sex repeatedly in ones life, and with several people over a period of time is 'sleazy'?  You do realize that this is the norm for human beings, right?

[opebo]

What puzzles me is the prevailing attitude of some people here on the forum and other supporters of Assange that accusations of rape don't need to be cleared up if the accused person is one of the "good guys". This is a concept of law that I don't quite understand.

That's not accurate, ZuWo - you are straw manning.  

...the snivelling narcissism of this Okubata Keisaburo-like figure

I'm really intrigued by this Okubata Keisaburo character you have often mentioned, and I would love to know more.  But, alas, he or she is hardly to be found through a google search.  Could you help me?  Perhaps a lengthy and detailed post explaining this reference and/or some links to translatable Japanese sources on the subject?

[opebo]

I support an order that has led to the best standard of living the poor have ever seen, while you support one that lead to misery for the poor and abundance for the ruling class.

Misery is an emotional state, Gustaf.  Better stick to the numbers of microwaves and I-pads and things like that.

[opebo]

Chomsky is flat-out wrong about the way the Swedish justice system works.

You're arguing the letter of the law, Nathan, which really has nothing to do with what everybody's talking about.

[opebo]

... his execrable and cowardly behavior. ...he's a sleazy pervert any more as it about his belief that he is above the law and above anybody's moral standards but his own, which seem to run to 'that which gets my dick wet and/or my face in the newspapers'

But Nathan, a desire to have sex is commonplace and normal, not 'perverse', as is a desire for some form of affirmation in the real world - sometimes called 'success', and typified by being seen the media.

I don't really understand your extreme emotional response, Nathan.  Your opponents have no such passion here - I have no idea that Assange is perfect or a saint, I suppose I just consider all of us, including myself, to be real people.  Perhaps you would understand better if you enjoyed life more - had sexual desires and so forth.  

However it is in the nature of power that it does create martyrs, however flawed they are: everyone in prison at this moment is in some sense a martyr to our system of social control, however unpleasant they may appear to be on the (largely imaginary and irrelevant) 'personal level'.  The flaws are created by power just as much as the martyrdom is, and to despise the poor b*stard for his flaws is just as unreasonable as to saint him.

(this is directed, with respect, to you as well Mikado)

[opebo]

...he's a sleazy pervert

But Nathan, a desire to have sex is commonplace and normal, not 'perverse', as is a desire for some form of affirmation in the real world - sometimes called 'success', and typified by being seen the media.

Why this obsession with normality, opebo? Why do you feel the need to impose your set of values on Nathan or anyone else? Most people are actually not that fixated on sex.

Because my statement was a direct response to a claim of abnormality made by my quoted interlocutor (Nathan), Gustaf - as I have now underlined above for those who have difficulty with reading comprehension.

I mean on the level of Opebo. Most people have plenty of other things going on in life that they value highly.

But Gustaf, you're only imagining the straw-man opebo.  I'm not obsessed with s*x - in point of fact I also place a great deal of importance on eating, sleeping, and being completely bone-idle, but those things are somewhat easier to obtain than the unmentionable.

[opebo]

"Do you know that I shall soon die in terrible pain?
But what can I do?  God has sent me to save our dear sovereign and Holy Russia.
Despite my terrible sins, I am a Christ in miniature."

[opebo]

I don't think even opebo would consider himself, individually, to constitute 'the bigger picture'.

What I'm saying here is that I don't think opebo would consider Assange to be a sleazy sex addict, nor what he's accused of to be something that he should be prosecuted for, regardless of what Assange's political beliefs are.  Remember, we're dealing with someone who thought Polanski was guilty of nothing more than bad judgment.

Oh, I know that, I just don't think that his personal considerations regarding that are the 'bigger picture' that he's talking about.
[/quote]

Yeah, the bigger picture I'm talking about is simply that the marauding hegemon is at least in some sense a threat to or having an effect on us - one weedy guy's sexual behavior, however bad, really is an irrelevancy from 99.9% of the population's perspective.