When will Israel ever be an issue?

[Dereich]

It won't.

And nobody will ever vote for a catholic, black or woman for president, right?

The question is when pro-Palestinians will be a bigger part of the Democratic base then Jews are. I expect a vocal pro-Palestine block to develop within the Democratic caucus in the next 10-20 years.

[Dereich]

It won't in the foreseeable future.

The question is when pro-Palestinians will be a bigger part of the Democratic base then Jews are. I expect a vocal pro-Palestine block to develop within the Democratic caucus in the next 10-20 years.

I really doubt that; you'll notice, the trend over the past few years has been for more public approval of Israel's actions, not less (in 2000 pro-Israelis were at about ~60%, now they're ~70%; pro-Palestinians have remained about the same at ~20%). If anything, the logical trend is that pro-Israeli groups become stronger, not the reverse.

Not necessarily. I doubt that support is as solid as it looks; Ron Paul would probably count himself as a supporter but that won't really help the Israeli groups. And there really aren't many other worlds to conquer for the pro-Israel crowd; we don't really do anything diplomatically that they don't support (with the minor blip of the Arab Spring excepted), we give them unquestioned backing in the UN, almost singlehandedly prevent them from being a world pariah, and spend about 1/5th of our foreign aid budget directly and indirectly supporting them, even when they face no tangible threats and have a GDP per capita the size of Spain. And with the isolationists gaining ground and austerity as the byword of the day, support for them can only go down.

[Dereich]

I can't understand how a left-wing/liberal person can be pro-Israel.  Don't liberals usually stand for international law and human rights?

I also stand for gay rights, economic welfare, health care for all, and other progressive ideals, which Israel follows quite a bit. Also, I don't even know if Israel has committed any more war crimes than the Palestinians have. I mean, I'm not one of those right-wingers who thinks Israel is perfect, it has its problems, but it's the one of the only democracies in the middle east, and is one of, and quite likely the most, progressive country in the middle east.

Israeli trigger-happiness has directly led to more support for Islamists and dictators. It is well and good that it is a democracy, and yes its opponents are usually worse, but that doesn't excuse its overly jingoistic foreign policy and its absurd treatment of the Palestinians.

[Dereich]

I can't understand how a left-wing/liberal person can be pro-Israel.  Don't liberals usually stand for international law and human rights?

I also stand for gay rights, economic welfare, health care for all, and other progressive ideals, which Israel follows quite a bit. Also, I don't even know if Israel has committed any more war crimes than the Palestinians have. I mean, I'm not one of those right-wingers who thinks Israel is perfect, it has its problems, but it's the one of the only democracies in the middle east, and is one of, and quite likely the most, progressive country in the middle east.

Israeli trigger-happiness has directly led to more support for Islamists and dictators. It is well and good that it is a democracy, and yes its opponents are usually worse, but that doesn't excuse its overly jingoistic foreign policy and its absurd treatment of the Palestinians.

The problem is that a majority of Arabs refuse to accept Israel's right to exist, leading to a more aggressive (understandably) Israeli foreign policy, which in turn leads to more Arab resentment. Its a vicious cycle.

Exactly. And its one which could only be broken by either politically painful sacrifices on both sides (as likely as hell freezing over) or a powerful, neutral third party cracking heads together making them both sacrifice, a task which the US has failed very, very badly at.

[Dereich]

Ah I thought someone would bring this old chestnut of the Israel-Apartheid analogy up. Unlike in South Africa under apartheid, Arabs have always had the vote and the right to sit in the Knesset. Its restrictions on Palestinian movement into Israel are highly sensible security wise. Really I think this is a hugely overblown analysis of the situation. Also one that is perpertrated by people who are mainly on the left-wing of politics, like Jimmy Carter (whose foreign policy based upon "human rights" allowed for the coming to power of Ayatollah Khomenei, Robert Mugabe and the Sandinistas).

Israel certainly treats its citizens different based on their religions, but nowhere near apartheid levels. There are well documented examples of the Israeli government giving preferential treatment to Jewish holy sites over the holy sites of other religions, being slow to react to anti-Arab hate speech and violence, having laws like the 'Citizenship and Entry into Israel Law' which disproportionately affect those of Arab birth, and quasi-governmental organizations like the Jewish National Fund which only sells land to Jews. Some of this is understandable, as Israel is set up specifically as a Jewish state, but the question of how much discrimination is too much in a democratic country is still an issue.

Now, the occupied terriories on the other hand are pretty easy to compare to apartheid. They have a different criminal justice system for Israelis and Palestinians in the occupied territories which gives harsher sentences to Palestinians, has extensive well built roads and other kinds of infrastructure only Israelis can use while at the same time maintaining severe restrictions to Palestinian movement, and create Israeli enclaves which are guarded by the IDF which Palestinians are kept out of (see the whole Hebron mess).