Signatures filed to invalidate Maryland Congressional redistricting

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

I guess only Republicans are allowed to gerrymander. Their gerrymanders in OH, PA, FL, TX, VA, GA,  and so are are all perfectly fine.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

So you're saying they "deserved" it? Why can't Maryland Republicans push for an independent commission instead?

"Independent commissions," as established in Arizona and California, bizarrely enough, both have created blatant Democratic gerrymanders (in Arizona's case, twice in a row).

I don't know about the new districts, but the old NJ ones should have had another Democrat. 7-6 in a solid blue state is pretty lame.

[bgwah]

So you're saying they "deserved" it? Why can't Maryland Republicans push for an independent commission instead?

"Independent commissions," as established in Arizona and California, bizarrely enough, both have created blatant Democratic gerrymanders (in Arizona's case, twice in a row).

The bipartisan commission's map in Washington is a Republican gerrymander.

[DrScholl]

"Independent commissions," as established in Arizona and California, bizarrely enough, both have created blatant Democratic gerrymanders (in Arizona's case, twice in a row).

California is not a gerrymander, you can't fairly draw more Republican seats than the commission drew. Arizona is allowed to use competitiveness and that's what they did with their map, which still has more Republican safe seats than Democratic ones.

[Associate Justice PiT]

It's actually pretty easy to draw a 5-3 Republican map in Maryland, [un?]interestingly enough.

     Pretty easy as in less ugly than the Democratic gerrymander of a map the state normally has?

[tpfkaw]

It's actually pretty easy to draw a 5-3 Republican map in Maryland, [un?]interestingly enough.

     Pretty easy as in less ugly than the Democratic gerrymander of a map the state normally has?

Yes, you can do it fairly compactly.

[minionofmidas]

It's not like Republicans wouldn't have drawn a gerrymander if they had control. Maryland's map isn't nearly as ridiculous as the maps of Pennsylvania and Ohio.

It's exactly as ridiculous, and no one who voted for any of the three deserves reelection. -_-

[minionofmidas]

Trying to draw a fair map (not just compact-looking but also not cutting straight through communities etc) of Maryland tends to result in 4-2-2 maps, fwiw, sometimes with evident slight R leans to the marginal seats.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

It's not like Republicans wouldn't have drawn a gerrymander if they had control. Maryland's map isn't nearly as ridiculous as the maps of Pennsylvania and Ohio.

It's exactly as ridiculous, and no one who voted for any of the three deserves reelection. -_-

The MD map is obviously a Democratic gerrymander and so is the IL map (which replaced a Republican gerrymander), and I don't like either of them for that reason.  The only argument for these maps not being as bad as OH and PA's is that they more accurately reflect the statewide political lean.  And that doesn't really hold up because its just another way of saying, "our gerrymanders are horrible, but it's okay because yours are worse, so its okay," and that's ridiculous.  It is also absurd to say that gerrymandering in some state's is okay because (to paraphrase) "my party deserves revenge there."

That being said, it makes no sense for Democrats (or Republicans, for that matter) to stop gerrymandering unless the other party stops gerrymandering states in which it has the opportunity to gerrymander.  Everyone wants fair redistricting when they have no say in it.  But unconditional unilateral disarmament is silly.  It is also naive to expect politicians not to try to help their party win when given the opportunity to do so.  If people really want fair redistricting, then they'll support the establishment of a California-style redistricting commission in EVERY state. 

[BigSkyBob]

It's not like Republicans wouldn't have drawn a gerrymander if they had control. Maryland's map isn't nearly as ridiculous as the maps of Pennsylvania and Ohio.

It's exactly as ridiculous, and no one who voted for any of the three deserves reelection. -_-

The MD map is obviously a Democratic gerrymander and so is the IL map (which replaced a Republican gerrymander), and I don't like either of them for that reason.  The only argument for these maps not being as bad as OH and PA's is that they more accurately reflect the statewide political lean.  And that doesn't really hold up because its just another way of saying, "our gerrymanders are horrible, but it's okay because yours are worse, so its okay," and that's ridiculous.  It is also absurd to say that gerrymandering in some state's is okay because (to paraphrase) "my party deserves revenge there."

That being said, it makes no sense for Democrats (or Republicans, for that matter) to stop gerrymandering unless the other party stops gerrymandering states in which it has the opportunity to gerrymander.  Everyone wants fair redistricting when they have no say in it.  But unconditional unilateral disarmament is silly.  It is also naive to expect politicians not to try to help their party win when given the opportunity to do so.  If people really want fair redistricting, then they'll support the establishment of a California-style redistricting commission in EVERY state. 

If politicians are elected to represent their parties, your position makes sense. If politicians are elected to represent the folks in their districts and states, your position makes no sense. If gerrymandering is really bad for the folks in North Carolina and Maryland, then the representives of North Carolina oughten wait until the folks in Maryland are governed better before doing so themselves, and visa versa.

[timothyinMD]

It's not like Republicans wouldn't have drawn a gerrymander if they had control. Maryland's map isn't nearly as ridiculous as the maps of Pennsylvania and Ohio.

The Maryland map was the worst of the whole cycle.  PA/IL/OH/NC are next I'd say

Republicans wouldn't have drawn a gerrymandered map if we were in control, we don't need to.  Maryland is naturally laid out to the benefit of Republicans.





Why, look what we have here.  Two potential maps for Maryland that are NOT insane

It's actually pretty easy to draw a 5-3 Republican map in Maryland, [un?]interestingly enough.

That's not correct, a 5-3 Republican map in Md is not possible, but a 4-4 one is very possible, and this is so because Maryland is the most polarized state in the union

How did I know this was a krazen post?

'Moving right along to the next thread....

Looks like snotty Miles doesn't like citizen uprising against Democrats' outrageous Maryland congressional map.  This is going to referendum.  We turned in 10k more than needed. 10k will not be invalid

If most Maryland Republicans are like you in demeanor, its easy to see why they're such a minority in state politics.

Your dismissive remark at the petition drive reeked of snobbery.  What can I say?  The Democrats were giddy at the prospect of petitioning Ohio's map.  I'm glad that the OH Repubs modified their map due to public pressures.  I wish MD Dems had done the same

[Miles]

How did I know this was a krazen post?

'Moving right along to the next thread....

Looks like snotty Miles doesn't like citizen uprising against Democrats' outrageous Maryland congressional map.  This is going to referendum.  We turned in 10k more than needed. 10k will not be invalid

If most Maryland Republicans are like you in demeanor, its easy to see why they're such a minority in state politics.

Your dismissive remark at the petition drive reeked of snobbery.  What can I say?  The Democrats were giddy at the prospect of petitioning Ohio's map.  I'm glad that the OH Repubs modified their map due to public pressures.  I wish MD Dems had done the same

It wasn't just that post; your forum demeanor has been fairly consistent. I mean that in the least offensive way possible.

[timothyinMD]

How did I know this was a krazen post?

'Moving right along to the next thread....

Looks like snotty Miles doesn't like citizen uprising against Democrats' outrageous Maryland congressional map.  This is going to referendum.  We turned in 10k more than needed. 10k will not be invalid

If most Maryland Republicans are like you in demeanor, its easy to see why they're such a minority in state politics.

Your dismissive remark at the petition drive reeked of snobbery.  What can I say?  The Democrats were giddy at the prospect of petitioning Ohio's map.  I'm glad that the OH Repubs modified their map due to public pressures.  I wish MD Dems had done the same

It wasn't just that post; your forum demeanor has been fairly consistent. I mean that in the least offensive way possible.

My aim is not to please you, buddy.  3/4 of those who write on here regularly are liberal/Democrat.  It's basically a vehicle for you all to validate your own musings.  I try to super-size my voice to make up for the lack of diverse viewpoints, and as good old Rush Limbaugh would say, point out absurdity with absurdity.

I notice that my alma mater [Towson University] will being visiting your alma mater [LSU] in the fall.  I intend to make the trip to watch that game, can't wait

[Miles]

My aim is not to please you, buddy.  3/4 of those who write on here regularly are liberal/Democrat.  It's basically a vehicle for you all to validate your own musings.  I try to super-size my voice to make up for the lack of diverse viewpoints, and as good old Rush Limbaugh would say, point out absurdity with absurdity.

I notice that my alma mater [Towson University] will being visiting your alma mater [LSU] in the fall.  I intend to make the trip to watch that game, can't wait

Oh, awesome! We'll surely welcome you here at LSU and I hope you have a great experience there! Enjoy our campus!

[timothyinMD]

My aim is not to please you, buddy.  3/4 of those who write on here regularly are liberal/Democrat.  It's basically a vehicle for you all to validate your own musings.  I try to super-size my voice to make up for the lack of diverse viewpoints, and as good old Rush Limbaugh would say, point out absurdity with absurdity.

I notice that my alma mater [Towson University] will being visiting your alma mater [LSU] in the fall.  I intend to make the trip to watch that game, can't wait

Oh, awesome! We'll surely welcome you here at LSU and I hope you have a great experience there! Enjoy our campus!

Actually its a battle of my alma maters, as I attended LSU for one semester before coming to my senses that out of state tuition is a waste of money. (Fall 2007).. oh which just happened to be the semester they won the BCS.  Epic awesomeness, LSU is a beautiful and fantastic school and I'll probably be rooting for them in the game over Towson, who are the "tigers" as well

I lived at 1443 brightside drive, I forget the name of the apt complex

[Miles]

My aim is not to please you, buddy.  3/4 of those who write on here regularly are liberal/Democrat.  It's basically a vehicle for you all to validate your own musings.  I try to super-size my voice to make up for the lack of diverse viewpoints, and as good old Rush Limbaugh would say, point out absurdity with absurdity.

I notice that my alma mater [Towson University] will being visiting your alma mater [LSU] in the fall.  I intend to make the trip to watch that game, can't wait

Oh, awesome! We'll surely welcome you here at LSU and I hope you have a great experience there! Enjoy our campus!

Actually its a battle of my alma maters, as I attended LSU for one semester before coming to my senses that out of state tuition is a waste of money. (Fall 2007).. oh which just happened to be the semester they won the BCS.  Epic awesomeness, LSU is a beautiful and fantastic school and I'll probably be rooting for them in the game over Towson, who are the "tigers" as well

I lived at 1443 brightside drive, I forget the name of the apt complex

Wow, that must have been great! You just went waaaay up in my book lol

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Any "fair" map in Maryland would likely just be 6-2, like the previous map, the closest thing to MD-02 would perhaps be potentially winnable for Republicans on paper but not in practice because Dutch Ruppersberger would easily win any BaltCo-based seat. I should point out that combining the panhandle with MontCo isn't really any more absurd than combining with it the Baltimore exurbs, neither area fits with it, just that the latter region happens to vote the same way.

Not to say that neither the current or previous map isn't an insane gerrymander, but the main reason it's that way is moreso due to the incumbents and some inconvenient residences. Both of timothy's maps above ignore communities of interest just as much as the current map, it just does so in a less ugly way, and would most likely still elect a 6-2 delegation regardless.

[minionofmidas]

Not to say that neither the current or previous map isn't an insane gerrymander, but the main reason it's that way is moreso due to the incumbents and some inconvenient residences. Both of timothy's maps above ignore communities of interest just as much as the current map, it just does so in a less ugly way, and would most likely still elect a 6-2 delegation regardless.

The first of his maps looks pretty reasonable to me... obviously the Panhandle district needed to head somewhere, but apart from that. You notice that four of those fairly natural districts turn out as Dem vote sinks.


So what happens if voters invalidate the redistricting? The Dems on the legislature need to pass a new map, with as little rules as before? How far do they need to change it to be clear from judicial interference?

[hopper]

Any "fair" map in Maryland would likely just be 6-2, like the previous map, the closest thing to MD-02 would perhaps be potentially winnable for Republicans on paper but not in practice because Dutch Ruppersberger would easily win any BaltCo-based seat. I should point out that combining the panhandle with MontCo isn't really any more absurd than combining with it the Baltimore exurbs, neither area fits with it, just that the latter region happens to vote the same way.

Not to say that neither the current or previous map isn't an insane gerrymander, but the main reason it's that way is moreso due to the incumbents and some inconvenient residences. Both of timothy's maps above ignore communities of interest just as much as the current map, it just does so in a less ugly way, and would most likely still elect a 6-2 delegation regardless.

Yeah but that was Bob Elrich's(R) seat before Ruppersberger took it over. Without gerrymandering the Republicans have a chance at that seat. Thats why Elrich ran for Governor in 2002 because he knew he would be gerrymandered out of his seat by Maryland Democrats.

[timothyinMD]

Any "fair" map in Maryland would likely just be 6-2, like the previous map, the closest thing to MD-02 would perhaps be potentially winnable for Republicans on paper but not in practice because Dutch Ruppersberger would easily win any BaltCo-based seat. I should point out that combining the panhandle with MontCo isn't really any more absurd than combining with it the Baltimore exurbs, neither area fits with it, just that the latter region happens to vote the same way.

Not to say that neither the current or previous map isn't an insane gerrymander, but the main reason it's that way is moreso due to the incumbents and some inconvenient residences. Both of timothy's maps above ignore communities of interest just as much as the current map, it just does so in a less ugly way, and would most likely still elect a 6-2 delegation regardless.

Actually no, my maps very much respect "communities of interest."  I think I know Maryland a lot better than you do, pal.  A "fair" map would be at least 5-3

[Vazdul (Formerly Chairman of the Communist Party of Ontario)]

Any "fair" map in Maryland would likely just be 6-2, like the previous map, the closest thing to MD-02 would perhaps be potentially winnable for Republicans on paper but not in practice because Dutch Ruppersberger would easily win any BaltCo-based seat. I should point out that combining the panhandle with MontCo isn't really any more absurd than combining with it the Baltimore exurbs, neither area fits with it, just that the latter region happens to vote the same way.

Not to say that neither the current or previous map isn't an insane gerrymander, but the main reason it's that way is moreso due to the incumbents and some inconvenient residences. Both of timothy's maps above ignore communities of interest just as much as the current map, it just does so in a less ugly way, and would most likely still elect a 6-2 delegation regardless.

Actually no, my maps very much respect "communities of interest."  I think I know Maryland a lot better than you do, pal.  A "fair" map would be at least 5-3

The first map isn't bad, but could you perhaps explain what community of interest is served by pairing College Park with Randallstown? That district is unnecessarily erose . Oh, and you can't get from Dundalk to Anne Arundel County without passing through another district or taking a swim. While this of course doesn't disqualify it from being a congressional district, it's hardly justifiable from a community of interest standpoint. Other than those little nitpicks though, not bad.

[krazen1211]

Successful!

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-congressional-redistrict-20120711,0,4104812.story

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Successful!

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-congressional-redistrict-20120711,0,4104812.story

Win-win.  If the measure is defeated, we keep the current map.  If the measure passes, the current map can just be replaced with an 8-0 map (which isn't really that hard to draw).

[krazen1211]

If they wanted to do an 8-0 map, and they thought one was truly feasible, they would have done so in the first place.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Don't be naive Krazen. The only way for this to have worked was if the legislature was disarmed and/or shackled with a set of restrictive criteria.


Edit: Does Maryland even have a means to alter the redistricting climate that doesn't require legislative approval?