Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
May 25, 2018, 05:23:21 pm
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Be sure to enable your "Ultimate Profile" for even more goodies on your profile page!

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  Atlas Fantasy Elections
| |-+  Atlas Fantasy Government (Moderators: Gustaf, Lumine)
| | |-+  The Unwed and Teenage Mothers Protection Bill
« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 Print
Author Topic: The Unwed and Teenage Mothers Protection Bill  (Read 18732 times)
Nym90
nym90
Modadmin
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 16,322
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.55, S: -2.96


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #150 on: February 02, 2005, 03:20:56 pm »

I encourage my Senators and all Senators of Atlasia to send a strong no vote on this bill; my reasons follow:

We need to find ways that the mothers can take care of their babies, not put them in a day care and leave them all the time.  We need to make some sort of provision for this, Im not sure what to put in there but we should definitely collaborate to support parents as primary caregivers.

Parents should not be subjected to regular invasions of their privacy and right to raise their children without interference unless there is real cause for concern. An annual, not monthly, interview should be sufficient enough to collect information which will help determine eligibility status and any additional services the person may require in order to successfully participate in the program.

Child and substance abusers should be incarcerated, and children placed with relatives. There is also strong evidence of frequent abuse in the foster homes and shelters themselves! so I question the use of social workers in these cases.  Children are also moved around a lot, so they often get lost in the system and are never reunited with their families. 

Also, tax cuts mean that parents have more money to help their teens out in this situation, effectively relieving the burden on the government to provide these kinds of services.

Income tax cuts aren't going to help these people, since most pay little or no tax to begin with. However, I would support a sales tax cut, or a payroll tax cut for the poorest Atlasians.
Logged
Filuwaúrdjan
Realpolitik
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 61,892
United Kingdom


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #151 on: February 02, 2005, 03:27:36 pm »

10 pages and still not open for debate? This is absurd and just shows how lacking the Senate performance is!!!

Let's just say that not everyone who commented on this thread is a Senator.
Logged



Gabu
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 28,492
Canada


Political Matrix
E: -4.32, S: -6.52

View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #152 on: February 02, 2005, 03:33:13 pm »

10 pages and still not open for debate? This is absurd and just shows how lacking the Senate performance is!!!

Actually, what it really shows is how much of a bottleneck is created when pieces get mandatory one week for debate even when it's not used one bit. We really need to update that.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2005, 03:52:52 pm by Senator Gabu, PPT »Logged



"To me, 'underground' sounds like subway trains.  That's the only sound I associate with 'underground'." - Everett
King
intermoderate
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 29,552
United States


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #153 on: February 02, 2005, 03:49:47 pm »

10 pages and still not open for debate? This is absurd and just shows how lacking the Senate performance is!!!

Actually, what it really shows how much of a bottleneck is created when pieces get mandatory one week for debate even when it's not used one bit. We really need to update that.

Back when I was a Senator, we interpreted that procedure law has official debate beginning at the bill's introduction. We only used the 4 bills max for opening votes.
Logged

Gabu
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 28,492
Canada


Political Matrix
E: -4.32, S: -6.52

View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #154 on: February 02, 2005, 03:57:31 pm »

10 pages and still not open for debate? This is absurd and just shows how lacking the Senate performance is!!!

Actually, what it really shows how much of a bottleneck is created when pieces get mandatory one week for debate even when it's not used one bit. We really need to update that.

Back when I was a Senator, we interpreted that procedure law has official debate beginning at the bill's introduction. We only used the 4 bills max for opening votes.

I personally think that the best way to do it is to go with something like the 24-hour rule in this resolution, in that a vote gets called if debate ceases for 24 hours. It seems much more sensible to me than to require everyone to wait a week regardless of how much people have to say about a piece of legislation (although there is a method in place to motion to end debate).

Speaking of which, I think I'm going to use that method. This waiting around for debate time to end is getting stupid.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2005, 04:03:39 pm by Senator Gabu, PPT »Logged



"To me, 'underground' sounds like subway trains.  That's the only sound I associate with 'underground'." - Everett
WiseGuy
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1,373


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #155 on: February 02, 2005, 04:23:51 pm »

May I inject my thoughts?  First, I agree completely with the objections that Mr. CheeseWhiz raised.  I would also like to add that this bill does nothing to get rid of what I believe is the root cause of the problem you are trying to tackle, i.e., the decreasing number of Parents who take an active role in the raising of their children. 

Senators, I also urge you to vote no on this bill.  I have nothing against Senator Supersoulty personally, and in fact would like to express a sense of understanding for his stance on this issue because I have a niece who was born to an unwed mother, but this bill has too many inherent problems for me to remain silent any longer.

This bill encourages welfare-like programs and more bloating of the Federal Government, which I consider dangerous and even deadly to the nation. I believe that we should encourage Families, whether the couple is married or not, to stay together, and this bill does not do that.  Payroll and sales tax cuts are a step in the right direction, I think, but it's still not enough.

We should encourage at least one of the parents to take primary charge for their children and not dump them off at daycare.  Again, I believe the decrease of parents who take charge in the upbringing of their children, 24/7, is a part of the reason we have so much teenage pregnancy, deadbeat dads, and other problems in our society.

Finally, I am concerned about the role that the CPS, an agency that is currently under investigation in many states (including our own) for abuse of their power and privilege, will play in determining exactly which parents are considered abusive as per section 5e. 

So, in closing I urge that all senators vote a strong NO on this bill as proposed.  Thank you for your time.
Logged
12th Doctor
supersoulty
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 20,666
Ukraine


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #156 on: February 02, 2005, 08:35:07 pm »

May I inject my thoughts? First, I agree completely with the objections that Mr. CheeseWhiz raised. I would also like to add that this bill does nothing to get rid of what I believe is the root cause of the problem you are trying to tackle, i.e., the decreasing number of Parents who take an active role in the raising of their children.

Senators, I also urge you to vote no on this bill. I have nothing against Senator Supersoulty personally, and in fact would like to express a sense of understanding for his stance on this issue because I have a niece who was born to an unwed mother, but this bill has too many inherent problems for me to remain silent any longer.

This bill encourages welfare-like programs and more bloating of the Federal Government, which I consider dangerous and even deadly to the nation. I believe that we should encourage Families, whether the couple is married or not, to stay together, and this bill does not do that. Payroll and sales tax cuts are a step in the right direction, I think, but it's still not enough.

We should encourage at least one of the parents to take primary charge for their children and not dump them off at daycare. Again, I believe the decrease of parents who take charge in the upbringing of their children, 24/7, is a part of the reason we have so much teenage pregnancy, deadbeat dads, and other problems in our society.

Finally, I am concerned about the role that the CPS, an agency that is currently under investigation in many states (including our own) for abuse of their power and privilege, will play in determining exactly which parents are considered abusive as per section 5e.

So, in closing I urge that all senators vote a strong NO on this bill as proposed. Thank you for your time.

So, then basically what you are telling me is that you want more abortions?  I've heard "we should tackle the real problem".  How in the Hell do we do that?  Are we going to force parents to spend more time with their children?  We cannot inact social change from here.  We just have to do what we can.

You can bitch and whine and moan about how it doesn't tackle the real problem, but that won't get anything accomplished and in the mean time, more babies who don't have to die will have and more misery that wouldn't have to occure, will have occured.  You can get everything you want, or we can have nothing.  I'm sick and tired of people being against solid initiatives, because they don't meet their specific requirments.

Leave your egos at the door and try to understand that the if we want anything done, we need to work to achieve something that most people can agree on and we need to do what we can do not what we wish we could do.
Logged

WiseGuy
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1,373


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #157 on: February 03, 2005, 09:14:11 am »

Senator, I hear your frustration and concerns loud and clear, and I agree that these are serious problems that need to be addressed. I am not content to follow the status quo, however, and this looks like just another "aid" program destined to inflate the welfare state to bursting!. I do not believe that this bill will reduce the number of abortions significantly. People don't want to be saddled with a kid because many of their own parents were taught by our society to feel the same way -- that raising children is a second-class job, a hassle and a burden. I'm saying what we need to do is get the government out of people's business and trust them to handle their own affairs. I'm saying that we need to get rid of government programs which usurp the family.

 

You are correct, we can't force people to spend more time with their kids, but we can stop encouraging the opposite! We need to close the Government-funded babysitters and tell people that the State is not in the business of raising the next generation! Let free enterprise and service organizations provide childcare, if necessary. If we can get to the root of the problem, we will be able to find ways to enable both mothers and fathers to spend more time with their children and that will be the first step toward curbing abortions and teenage pregnancy without creating "new & improved" programs in an ever-growing government bureaucracy! Thank you, I yield the floor (been glued to the Senate debates on C-SPAN all week Wink + Tongue)
« Last Edit: February 03, 2005, 09:16:44 am by WiseGuy »Logged
12th Doctor
supersoulty
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 20,666
Ukraine


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #158 on: February 03, 2005, 06:05:43 pm »

For the fourth time, can we please have a vote on this bill?
Logged

Gabu
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 28,492
Canada


Political Matrix
E: -4.32, S: -6.52

View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #159 on: February 03, 2005, 06:08:34 pm »

For the fourth time, can we please have a vote on this bill?

Unfortunately...

http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=15165.0

It still has a fair bit of stuff on top of it.  I personally would like to skip to this bill given how it's been debated to death already, but I don't really want to blatantly ignore regulations.

Maybe we should introduce a resolution saying that we can motion to bump a piece of legislation to the top of the pile... I'll introduce something like that when we've lessened the legislative load.

EDIT: Actually, I just realized that that list is horribly out of order.  This bill is actually at the top.  I'll just say that debate has already happened and skip to voting the moment a spot opens up.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2005, 06:10:28 pm by Senator Gabu, PPT »Logged



"To me, 'underground' sounds like subway trains.  That's the only sound I associate with 'underground'." - Everett
12th Doctor
supersoulty
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 20,666
Ukraine


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #160 on: February 03, 2005, 06:10:18 pm »

For the fourth time, can we please have a vote on this bill?

Unfortunately...

http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=15165.0

It still has a fair bit of stuff on top of it.  I personally would like to skip to this bill given how it's been debated to death already, but I don't really want to blatantly ignore regulations.

Maybe we should introduce a resolution saying that we can motion to bump a piece of legislation to the top of the pile... I'll introduce something like that when we've lessened the legislative load.

EDIT: Actually, I just realized that that list is horribly out of order.  This bill is actually very near the top.

But you have called for an end of debate of three bills that were proposed after this one.
Logged

Gabu
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 28,492
Canada


Political Matrix
E: -4.32, S: -6.52

View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #161 on: February 03, 2005, 06:13:15 pm »

For the fourth time, can we please have a vote on this bill?

Unfortunately...

http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=15165.0

It still has a fair bit of stuff on top of it.  I personally would like to skip to this bill given how it's been debated to death already, but I don't really want to blatantly ignore regulations.

Maybe we should introduce a resolution saying that we can motion to bump a piece of legislation to the top of the pile... I'll introduce something like that when we've lessened the legislative load.

EDIT: Actually, I just realized that that list is horribly out of order.  This bill is actually very near the top.

But you have called for an end of debate of three bills that were proposed after this one.

Yes, I know; as I said above, I just realized how horribly out of order Harry's list is.  Many apologies for that.

Well... eh, what the hell, it's not as if it's going to hurt anything.

Given that debate has obviously already been done, let's just skip that.


I hereby declare voting on this bill to be open.  All senators in favor, vote "yea"; all senators against, vote "nay".
Logged



"To me, 'underground' sounds like subway trains.  That's the only sound I associate with 'underground'." - Everett
12th Doctor
supersoulty
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 20,666
Ukraine


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #162 on: February 03, 2005, 06:14:47 pm »

Thank you, Mr. President.

Yea
Logged

The Duke
JohnD.Ford
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 9,394


Political Matrix
E: 0.13, S: -1.23

View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #163 on: February 03, 2005, 06:54:34 pm »

Yea.
Logged

Shut you hole... Conservatism is dead. I hope I get to see your head paraded on a pike with it.
WMS
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5,878


Political Matrix
E: -1.81, S: 0.35

View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #164 on: February 03, 2005, 08:32:40 pm »

As unpopular as it may be with the conservatives and libertarians in District 4, I vote my conscience.


YEA[/size]
Logged

The political class has demonized the working class because the political class no longer represents the working class.  Neither Republicans or Democrats.
Political Beliefs Summarized:
Jake
dubya2004
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18,716
Cuba


Political Matrix
E: -0.90, S: -0.35

View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #165 on: February 03, 2005, 08:37:39 pm »

As unpopular as it may be with the conservatives and libertarians in District 4, I vote my conscience.


YEA[/size]

BOOOOOOO
Logged
WMS
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5,878


Political Matrix
E: -1.81, S: 0.35

View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #166 on: February 03, 2005, 09:09:30 pm »

As unpopular as it may be with the conservatives and libertarians in District 4, I vote my conscience.


YEA[/size]

BOOOOOOO

Quiet in the gallery there. ;-P
Logged

The political class has demonized the working class because the political class no longer represents the working class.  Neither Republicans or Democrats.
Political Beliefs Summarized:
Nym90
nym90
Modadmin
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 16,322
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.55, S: -2.96


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #167 on: February 03, 2005, 09:50:11 pm »

Yea.
Logged
Gabu
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 28,492
Canada


Political Matrix
E: -4.32, S: -6.52

View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #168 on: February 03, 2005, 10:17:08 pm »

Yea.
Logged



"To me, 'underground' sounds like subway trains.  That's the only sound I associate with 'underground'." - Everett
Siege40
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1,840


Political Matrix
E: -6.25, S: -4.26

View Profile WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #169 on: February 04, 2005, 03:32:11 pm »

Abstain.

Siege
Logged

President - July 1, 2005 - Nov 4, 2005
Secretary of State - Mar 6, 2005 - July 1, 2005
Senator - Nov 5, 2004 - Mar 1, 2005
Northeast Governor - Aug 29, 2004 - Nov 5, 2004
Northeast Lt. Governor - Apr 9, 2004 - Aug 29, 2004

PC Scores: Econ - -6.25 Social - -4.26

Canadian registered in Vermont
Gabu
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 28,492
Canada


Political Matrix
E: -4.32, S: -6.52

View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #170 on: February 04, 2005, 03:34:34 pm »

With five in favor to zero against, and with one abstention, this bill has passed.

I hereby present it to the president for his signature.
Logged



"To me, 'underground' sounds like subway trains.  That's the only sound I associate with 'underground'." - Everett
Bono
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 11,729
United Kingdom


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #171 on: February 04, 2005, 03:35:46 pm »

Nay for the record.
Logged

"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed and hence clamorous to be led to safety by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." H.L. Mencken

NO, I don't want to go back to Fantasy Elections.
Jake
dubya2004
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18,716
Cuba


Political Matrix
E: -0.90, S: -0.35

View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #172 on: February 04, 2005, 03:49:34 pm »

VETO please
Logged
John Dibble
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18,778
Japan


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #173 on: February 04, 2005, 03:50:50 pm »

VETO please

Ditto.
Logged

Bono
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 11,729
United Kingdom


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #174 on: February 04, 2005, 04:26:58 pm »


+1
Logged

"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed and hence clamorous to be led to safety by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." H.L. Mencken

NO, I don't want to go back to Fantasy Elections.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines