McCain v. Bachmann on Abedim

[WhyteRain]

Of more interest is how Obama (or Hillary, acting on his instructions?) did what was necessary to ensure there would be no secular, non-Mubarek-connected opposition to the Muslim Brotherhood in the elections.

And why would they have done that?

Good question.  Maybe that's what Bachmann's trying to get after.  Unfortunately it's late for me.  I'll try to come back to this tomorrow.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Of more interest is how Obama (or Hillary, acting on his instructions?) did what was necessary to ensure there would be no secular, non-Mubarek-connected opposition to the Muslim Brotherhood in the elections.

And why would they have done that?

Good question.  Maybe that's what Bachmann's trying to get after.  Unfortunately it's late for me.  I'll try to come back to this tomorrow.

I think you might have arrived at a conclusion first and then tried to work backward from there and run into some roadblocks. I know people in my Asian Languages and Literatures department who occasionally think this way. I think we all do sometimes. I know I have.

[WhyteRain]

Of more interest is how Obama (or Hillary, acting on his instructions?) did what was necessary to ensure there would be no secular, non-Mubarek-connected opposition to the Muslim Brotherhood in the elections.

And why would they have done that?

Good question.  Maybe that's what Bachmann's trying to get after.  Unfortunately it's late for me.  I'll try to come back to this tomorrow.

I think you might have arrived at a conclusion first and then tried to work backward from there and run into some roadblocks. I know people in my Asian Languages and Literatures department who occasionally think this way. I think we all do sometimes. I know I have.

Yes, good point.  I've done that before as well.

Here's the thing about the Abedim case:  I was in the Army.  I had a security clearance.  It was a pretty high one, but not nearly as high as the one they had to give to a top aide of the U.S. Secretary of State. If when they were investigating me they had found any connection between me and the Albanian Peoples Organization or the Northern Bucovinian (it's a real place) Freedom Front, there's no way I could've gotten that clearance.  And that's just for being connected to a tiny nationalist organization that Congressmen paraded with on "Captive Nations Day".  If my closest family members were all connected to an organization as big and as powerful and as anti-American as the Muslim Brotherhood, there's no way on Earth I could've gotten any security clearance at all.

I've read, so far, only one of the "Bachmann letters" (actually signed by her and four other GOP congressmen).  In it she cites Abedim's connections to the Muslim Brotherhood and asks -- reasonably in my opinion -- what one has to do to not get a top security clearance at the State Department.  (Reading the letter reminded me of the book Unlimited Access, written by a FBI agent at the Clinton White House who complained about the lax security measures when Hillary was there.)

Another thing that bothers me is that the Abedim situation is only one of the potential problems with U.S. security matters that Bachmann and Co. point to -- and it's the only one that the D.C. Establishment is attacking.  I've seen this trick before:  They aim at the weakest item with the aim of claiming that if Abedim really is a loyal American then every other question raised by Bachmann must also be meritless.

[modify:]  The latest news is that top State Department official and darling of the D.C. Establishment Alger Hiss was still a Soviet spy.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Huma Abedim doesn't even wear a headscarf.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

I know we've veered off course, but I wanna also raise my hand as someone who would've preferred McCain.

My 2008 choices were sort of ranked like this:

1: Hillary
2: Romney
3: McCain
1,000,000: Barack Obama

I wish I'd given McCain more of a chance. I feel bad that I only supported him out of default when Obama got the nomination. McCain is really great guy, and the more and more I hear from him, the more and more I like him.

[Miles]

McCain is a numbnut for disagreeing with Bachmann.

[WhyteRain]

McCain is a numbnut for disagreeing with Bachmann.

Yep, it looks like McCain -- like a few people here -- didn't read any of the documents before going off on his tirade.  That was the scariest thing about him when he was running for President -- that he would "shoot first, aim later".

[WhyteRain]

Secular and non-Muslim Arabs are terrified by the new Hillary-Muslim Brotherhood alliance:

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For Obamabots:  Don't worry, it's not like this news is likely to reach the American people through coverage by the MSM.  Here's a list of outlets that covered it:  http://article.wn.com/view/2012/07/16/Secretary_of_State_Hillary_Clinton_has_motorcade_pelted_with/

Now back to the Two Minutes Hate for Michelle Bachman.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Sorry to break the McCain lovefest here, but I get the impression that he is just jumping on a politically correct bandwagon here. Something the "old" McCain was prone to do every chance he got, until he had to bring himself somewhat in line with the base to win the nomination in 2008.

Bachmann is nuts and shouldn't be in Congress, but to the extent that there are legitimate concerns and complaints concerning security clearences they should be looked at and dealt with. This rush to condemn Bachmann and her comrades risks that such potentially legitimate concerns get ignored as a result of a media crusade of political correctness that seems all to reminisicent of the 1990's playbook used by the Clintons to avoid similar such questions, through clever use and manipulation of the media.

[Middle-aged Europe]

All these claims regarding an alleged infiltration of the U.S. government by the Muslim Brotherhood are quite interesting, both from a psychological and a sociological point of view.

As such they should be subject of scientific examination and analysis. But that's all there is to it.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Bachmann is an idiot... and she's once again proved it.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

What, did you want her to condemn the democratically elected leader?

Well, for some people, democracy is good as long it gives the desired results.

Democracy is only good as long as it does produces results that will ensure respect for the civil rights of, and equal protection under law, for all of a county's people. If elections were the end all be all of a free society, then such would be probably the least desired system out there. The reason societies have generally transistioned to free socieities wasn't because they had the ability to claim the tyranny had the stamp of approval from a majority of the population. It was because they are suppose to free a society from tyranny and protect all its people.

It is a false equivalency to equate elections with democracy under the modern understanding of the term. In the old days, democracy used to mean a society in which people voted either directly or indirectly and in its pure, unlimited form it was just as tyrannical as any dictator. Now it has come to mean more and if you use the modern undestanding of it, you can't label a situation that falls significantly short of that newer understanding, as a democracy. If you use the old understanding, you can't uphold it as some noble accomplishment and improvement.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

All these claims regarding an alleged infiltration of the U.S. government by the Muslim Brotherhood are quite interesting, both from a psychological and a sociological point of view.

As such they should be subject of scientific examination and analysis. But that's all there is to it.

No, that is not quite all there is to it. For one I thing I don't really care about the psychological health of Bachmann. Second of all, crazy and insane charges do need to be carefully examined for legitimate concerns and issues, and the foreign policy alignments of an administration with regards to events in other countries can and should be subject to criticism if it is warranted by them. To do otherwise, is to place the security of one's country secondary to a politically correct bandwagon created for political purposes by someone who is rumored to have their eyes on the White House down the road, and has a history of responding/dealing with such complaints with a media sledge hammer in order to preserve her own political situation first and foremost.

[WhyteRain]

Bachmann is an idiot... and she's once again proved it.

How so?

It's easy to say "Bachmann is nuts" or "Bachmann is an idiot" because that's the MSM meme on her.  But have you ever asked yourself how, other than with pictures deliberately chosen to make her look "nuts", the MSM has ever made the case for its meme?



I don't think anyone can find anything crazier said by Bachmann than I can find said by Nancy Pelosi.

[anvi]

So, Bachmann teams up again with Gohmer, of "terror baby" fame, to take an argument she has picked with Larry Ellison, to the next level by kicking it up to the State Department.  It's all sheer guilt-by-association stuff.

One of the things I've found interesting is that, in the BYU Law Review article repeatedly cited by Bachmann, where Abedin's father is said to have received "quite but active support" from an NGO associate of the Brotherhood, it is reported in the same paragraph that Abedin argued for a more abstract and inclusive modern understanding of shari'a, according to which it refers to all of the diverse ways in which the divine truth appears among the many different religions and civilizations of the world (see pp. 365-66)  The reference to Abedin in the piece comes in the context of extolling the writings of Muhammad Salim al'Awwa, Kamal Abi al' Magd and Rashid al' Gannushi, who did have Muslim Brotherhood associations, but who advocated for sidelining traditional shari'a classifications of religious communities and adopting modern constitutions that guaranteed religious freedom for all citizens (pp. 362-364).  The point, that is, of the article cited by Bachmann's letter was to highlight and praise intellectuals in modernist Islam who argued that religious pluralism and freedom for all should be at the core of contemporary Islam, against the political goals of traditionalist Muslims in many Arab countries today. Abedin was one of these modernists.  The article can be read in its entirety here:

http://www.law2.byu.edu/lawreview/archives/2002/2/Nie8.pdf

The irony in all this is that, in wishing to cast aspersions at pretty much every Muslim in Congress and in the State Department that they can name, Bachmann and her pals are actually singling out Muslim advocates of modernism and constitutional democracy for scrutiny, all in the interests of fanning winds of support from a very ill-informed constituency.

In other words, three cheers for Senator McCain.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Bachmann is an idiot... and she's once again proved it.

How so?

It's easy to say "Bachmann is nuts" or "Bachmann is an idiot" because that's the MSM meme on her.  But have you ever asked yourself how, other than with pictures deliberately chosen to make her look "nuts", the MSM has ever made the case for its meme?

It doesn't take a spoon feeding from the media to determine that Bachmann is not operating on a full deck and isn't an effective Congressperson as a result. Most of what she does is counterproductive and self-defeating and as a result she is more of a hinderance to conservatism then the passionate fighter she likes to think of herself as.

[WhyteRain]

So, Bachmann teams up again with Gohmer, of "terror baby" fame, to take an argument she has picked with Larry Ellison, to the next level by kicking it up to the State Department.  It's all sheer guilt-by-association stuff.

One of the things I've found interesting is that, in the BYU Law Review article repeatedly cited by Bachmann, where Abedin's father is said to have received "quite but active support" from an NGO associate of the Brotherhood, it is reported in the same paragraph that Abedin argued for a more abstract and inclusive modern understanding of shari'a, according to which it refers to all of the diverse ways in which the divine truth appears among the many different religions and civilizations of the world (see pp. 365-66)  The reference to Abedin in the piece comes in the context of extolling the writings of Muhammad Salim al'Awwa, Kamal Abi al' Magd and Rashid al' Gannushi, who did have Muslim Brotherhood associations, but who advocated for sidelining traditional shari'a classifications of religious communities and adopting modern constitutions that guaranteed religious freedom for all citizens (pp. 362-364).  The point, that is, of the article cited by Bachmann's letter was to highlight and praise intellectuals in modernist Islam who argued that religious pluralism and freedom for all should be at the core of contemporary Islam, against the political goals of traditionalist Muslims in many Arab countries today. Abedin was one of these modernists.  The article can be read in its entirety here:

http://www.law2.byu.edu/lawreview/archives/2002/2/Nie8.pdf

The irony in all this is that, in wishing to cast aspersions at pretty much every Muslim in Congress and in the State Department that they can name, Bachmann and her pals are actually singling out Muslim advocates of modernism and constitutional democracy for scrutiny, all in the interests of fanning winds of support from a very ill-informed constituency.

In other words, three cheers for Senator McCain.

I'm not sure I've ever read such a factually-challenged post here.  I can't even begin to respond.

Anyway, to repeat Bachmann's simple, elegant question about Abedim:  "How does anyone get denied a top-level security clearance in the Hillary State Department?"

And in the News:  Alger Hiss is still guilty.  The Rosenbergs, too.

[WhyteRain]

Bachmann is an idiot... and she's once again proved it.

How so?

It's easy to say "Bachmann is nuts" or "Bachmann is an idiot" because that's the MSM meme on her.  But have you ever asked yourself how, other than with pictures deliberately chosen to make her look "nuts", the MSM has ever made the case for its meme?

It doesn't take a spoon feeding from the media to determine that Bachmann is not operating on a full deck and isn't an effective Congressperson as a result. Most of what she does is counterproductive and self-defeating and as a result she is more of a hinderance to conservatism then the passionate fighter she likes to think of herself as.

Do you have some examples?

Because while looking for that Newsweek "Crazy Eyes" picture, I came across, among other things, a complaint from Bachmann's enemies that her district rakes in more federal cash than it pays in taxes.  So I'm wondering what you mean by "isn't an effective Congressperson", "counterproductive", "self-defeating", and "a hinderance".  I mean, compared with whom?

[anvi]

I'm not sure I've ever read such a factually-challenged post here.  I can't even begin to respond.

Anyway, to repeat Bachmann's simple, elegant question about Abedim:  "How does anyone get denied a top-level security clearance in the Hillary State Department?"

And in the News:  Alger Hiss is still guilty.  The Rosenbergs, too.

Since you feign interest in facts, how about you tell us about facts?  What is the evidence that Abedin is guilty of wrongdoing or is worthy of suspicions of treason?  Based on the above article which Bachmann herself has alluded to as grounds for such suspicion, Abedin's father was a politically modernist Muslim.  Apart from citing articles referencing conspiratorial suspicions among the Egyptian populous (conspiratorial suspicions about anything and everything being rampant in the region) and showing photos of Clinton's motorcade being egged in a few countries (protestors thew stuff at Bush 43's motorcade on his first Inauguration Day--what allegations against him does that incident prove?), what are the actual grounds for calling for a State Department investigation against Abedin here?

[Torie]

Yes, what has Abedim done wrong?  What?  Is this all there is?:

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Even assuming Abedim was so promoting the Brotherhood, and even assuming he thinks the Muslim Brotherhood is a largely "secular" organization, so what?  Isn't the issue what the Obama's administration's policy is, not what basement state department operatives think about this or that? It does seem to be something of a witch hunt. It's a pity Bachmann's CD is so Pub. She needs to just go away - forever.  

[Middle-aged Europe]

All these claims regarding an alleged infiltration of the U.S. government by the Muslim Brotherhood are quite interesting, both from a psychological and a sociological point of view.

As such they should be subject of scientific examination and analysis. But that's all there is to it.

No, that is not quite all there is to it. For one I thing I don't really care about the psychological health of Bachmann. Second of all, crazy and insane charges do need to be carefully examined for legitimate concerns and issues, and the foreign policy alignments of an administration with regards to events in other countries can and should be subject to criticism if it is warranted by them. To do otherwise, is to place the security of one's country secondary to a politically correct bandwagon created for political purposes by someone who is rumored to have their eyes on the White House down the road, and has a history of responding/dealing with such complaints with a media sledge hammer in order to preserve her own political situation first and foremost.

No, it's bullsh**t.

[Nhoj]

Huma Abedim doesn't even wear a headscarf.

Also married to a jew.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Huma Abedim doesn't even wear a headscarf.

Also married to a jew.

She did it for the Ikhwan to maintain her cover. There's a deep game being played with Weiner, sheeple.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

All these claims regarding an alleged infiltration of the U.S. government by the Muslim Brotherhood are quite interesting, both from a psychological and a sociological point of view.

As such they should be subject of scientific examination and analysis. But that's all there is to it.

No, that is not quite all there is to it. For one I thing I don't really care about the psychological health of Bachmann. Second of all, crazy and insane charges do need to be carefully examined for legitimate concerns and issues, and the foreign policy alignments of an administration with regards to events in other countries can and should be subject to criticism if it is warranted by them. To do otherwise, is to place the security of one's country secondary to a politically correct bandwagon created for political purposes by someone who is rumored to have their eyes on the White House down the road, and has a history of responding/dealing with such complaints with a media sledge hammer in order to preserve her own political situation first and foremost.

No, it's bullsh**t.

Which part is bullsh**t in your view? The cautious examination of a potential security issue before jumping to a conclusion or the political ambitions of the Clinton's?

[WhyteRain]

Huma Abedim doesn't even wear a headscarf.

Also married to a jew.

She did it for the Ikhwan to maintain her cover. There's a deep game being played with Weiner, sheeple.

LOL -- ok, now that's funny....  Unless you are serious?